New Mod - Logroller

[jimnyc]

Your reply contains certain assurances. I thank you for them.

The fact of 'enmity', or even the extent of it, is not an issue as such. Granted, one could look at such an issue and be constrained in judgments according to their shallowness ... as much as anything else. But let me put these thoughts to you.

Firstly (and as Marcus has been at pains to point out, in his own way), this forum is understood to be yours, to run as you choose, as you see is best. Noted - accepted - none of that is the basis for quarrel.

Now, this following viewpoint you may regard as overly subjective if you wish ... but I happen to think I'm making a very valid case.

It is this: Left-wing thinking has never struck me as being particularly based in logic or fairness. It's about the acquisition of power, and, once acquired, how you apply it.

As an experiment, years ago, I contributed to a Left-wing discussion forum run out of the UK. It was not too dissimilar to this one, except of course that its debating directions were very firmly Left wing. So, what did I experience ? Apart from contention taken to a pitch that few would believe ... judgments, controls, were pitched to strongly favour Left-wing views. In essence, it was part-rational, but for the most part it was 'if you don't see things a certain way, there has to be something wrong with you'.

Its version of 'moderation', in the short time I was there, included PM's from no less than three Mods, each requiring me to argue a certain way. One of them kept up a dialogue with me for weeks on end, designed to deconstruct my arguments BEFORE I fully presented them.

Appearance of fairness evidently mattered to them. So long as it was heavily controlled along the way, of course.

[I feel a certain pride in my durability there. Yes, I actually lasted there for SIX entire weeks, before I was turfed off of there.]

Jim, I'm telling you this for a reason. My view is that the greater the opportunities given to those of a Left-persuasion to exercise control, so the greater the manifestation of its following a set agenda will be. I don't just believe that because I THINK I'm right .. I believe it because I've experienced it for myself.

You may believe in freedom of debate and of its being fairly balanced throughout. Jim; I absolutely promise you, those of the Left do NOT.

'Enmities' aren't really the issue. My view and belief is that the more a forum, ANY forum, is opened up to those from the Left, so the greater the incidence of agenda-setting will be as a consequence.

You say you've known Logroller for years, and it seems clear that you trust him to do a good job for you. OK, we'll see.

But I also believe I have legitimate concerns, Jim. And I do speak from experience.

Thanks for the well thought out post. I'll try to reply the best I can.

This board has never been about me, and my way or the highway. I've done my best over the years to include staff on decisions AND the entire community on some decisions. Yes, it is my board, but I try to always do what is best for the community as a whole. None of the shenanigans you endured elsewhere will be applied here, whether it may feel that way or appear that way at times.

There will always be fairness in moderation here and NO ONE will ever tell others how they should post. Take away the individuality and I'm not surprised boards that employ that crap will fail.

While things aren't perfect here, do you think I've been anything but fair to you guys? And I believe you broke the 6 week barrier here too! Nothing is going to change. The rules remain the same. The debates will be the same. No one is going to be unfairly moderated or eaten alive because Log became a moderator.

We could have 19 leftie moderators and then me - and things still wouldn't change. The board is what it is, so long as I own it, and won't be changing.

Oh, and I don't think Log is a leftie!

[Drummond]

Thanks for the well thought out post. I'll try to reply the best I can.

This board has never been about me, and my way or the highway. I've done my best over the years to include staff on decisions AND the entire community on some decisions. Yes, it is my board, but I try to always do what is best for the community as a whole. None of the shenanigans you endured elsewhere will be applied here, whether it may feel that way or appear that way at times.

There will always be fairness in moderation here and NO ONE will ever tell others how they should post. Take away the individuality and I'm not surprised boards that employ that crap will fail.

While things aren't perfect here, do you think I've been anything but fair to you guys? And I believe you broke the 6 week barrier here too! Nothing is going to change. The rules remain the same. The debates will be the same. No one is going to be unfairly moderated or eaten alive because Log became a moderator.

We could have 19 leftie moderators and then me - and things still wouldn't change. The board is what it is, so long as I own it, and won't be changing.

Oh, and I don't think Log is a leftie!

Thanks for your assurances. I'm going to take you at your word and see what happens.

Bear in mind this, though. I gave you one example of how a Leftie forum operated. I could cite you another of a further forum - yes, that one American - that, in the name of freedom of speech, exercised very little moderation. It was joined by, and became 'dominated' by, a large contingent of Right-wing contributors.

I was recommended to that site by an American lady, and debated there, quite happily, for a couple of years. Then ... WHAM !! ... along came 2004, US election year, and suddenly a mass of Left-wing trolls descended on to the site. Their activities were disgusting. Debate became nearly impossible. Whole threads became nothing but cesspits of abuse. Many of us Right-wingers battled on, but eventually jumped ship. We felt we had to.

The Left does have its agenda, and once it digs its heels in to a site, it either 'terraforms' it into something it can use for itself, or, it goes on a wrecking spree.

So, that all said .. I thank you for your assurances, Jim (... and if you doubt that my account is accurate, I'll happily identify the site to you in a PM ..).

[jimnyc]

Thanks for your assurances. I'm going to take you at your word and see what happens.

Bear in mind this, though. I gave you one example of how a Leftie forum operated. I could cite you another of a further forum - yes, that one American - that, in the name of freedom of speech, exercised very little moderation. It was joined by, and became 'dominated' by, a large contingent of Right-wing contributors.

I was recommended to that site by an American lady, and debated there, quite happily, for a couple of years. Then ... WHAM !! ... along came 2004, US election year, and suddenly a mass of Left-wing trolls descended on to the site. Their activities were disgusting. Debate became nearly impossible. Whole threads became nothing but cesspits of abuse. Many of us Right-wingers battled on, but eventually jumped ship. We felt we had to.

The Left does have its agenda, and once it digs its heels in to a site, it either 'terraforms' it into something it can use for itself, or, it goes on a wrecking spree.

So, that all said .. I thank you for your assurances, Jim (... and if you doubt that my account is accurate, I'll happily identify the site to you in a PM ..).

Oh, I believe you! Anyone wanting an idea of what a left wing kook ran site looks like, simply go to democraticunderground! All you need do there is introduce yourself as a republican and they will ban you. They WANT voices from only one side. My old board, which went from like 500,000 posts to about 7 million since I sold it, is infested with chaos and fighting. Great, threads are 20 pages long an hour after you start them, but they are useless. I know what you speak of.

But one man is not an infestation, and he's not the type you would ever find schmoozing over at DU either. I know you may not want to hear it, but he's WAY more conservative than he is a leftie - just not entirely right wing cool nutcases like you and I.

The only thing I would like to get overrun by is good discussions. If what you saw at that old board ever happens here - remind me - I'll pay the fees for a new domain and hosting and start us a new website myself!

[Drummond]

Oh, I believe you! Anyone wanting an idea of what a left wing kook ran site looks like, simply go to democraticunderground! All you need do there is introduce yourself as a republican and they will ban you. They WANT voices from only one side. My old board, which went from like 500,000 posts to about 7 million since I sold it, is infested with chaos and fighting. Great, threads are 20 pages long an hour after you start them, but they are useless. I know what you speak of.

But one man is not an infestation, and he's not the type you would ever find schmoozing over at DU either. I know you may not want to hear it, but he's WAY more conservative than he is a leftie - just not entirely right wing cool nutcases like you and I.

The only thing I would like to get overrun by is good discussions. If what you saw at that old board ever happens here - remind me - I'll pay the fees for a new domain and hosting and start us a new website myself!

It's tempting to try and join up there, just to aggravate the hell out of them (it's a knack ..) ...

As for any rerun of ruined, cesspitted forums ... happy to hold you to your promise ! But anyway, I was making a serious point - - Left-wingers DO work to either take over, or ruin, forums which they recognise as being anti-their interests. Don't be surprised if, someday, you suddenly find a great upsurge in membership interest which, when realised, turns out to be an enemy working from within.

[Gaffer]

It's tempting to try and join up there, just to aggravate the hell out of them (it's a knack ..) ...

As for any rerun of ruined, cesspitted forums ... happy to hold you to your promise ! But anyway, I was making a serious point - - Left-wingers DO work to either take over, or ruin, forums which they recognise as being anti-their interests. Don't be surprised if, someday, you suddenly find a great upsurge in membership interest which, when realised, turns out to be an enemy working from within.

The liberal trolls usually show up close to election time. We have had a good number of them here but they don't stay long. They get slammed with truth and facts and can't twist and turn things the way they like. Libs don't like it here.

LR is an okay guy. He'll be fine as a mod. He's not a liberal as everyone paints him. He just has a different point of view. And if we get some true liberals daring to test the water here you will see LR go after them right beside you.

[fj1200]

It's tempting to try and join up there, just to aggravate the hell out of them (it's a knack ..) ...

As for any rerun of ruined, cesspitted forums ... happy to hold you to your promise ! But anyway, I was making a serious point - - Left-wingers DO work to either take over, or ruin, forums which they recognise as being anti-their interests. Don't be surprised if, someday, you suddenly find a great upsurge in membership interest which, when realised, turns out to be an enemy working from within.

Oh for Pete's sake. There are no LEFTIES here. The only one is Gabbie and she can't/won't even string a coherent argument together. All the other ones have been run off. I for one hope an actual leftist DOES show up.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Oh for Pete's sake. There are no LEFTIES here. The only one is Gabbie and she can't/won't even string a coherent argument together. All the other ones have been run off. I for one hope an actual leftist DOES show up.

Ha, at least one in disguise that I know of ....and a couple more far too damn sympathetic to those that would destroy our nation and turn it into a damn third world hellhole. You being one of them pedro.. Fact.. Truth and reality are both a bitchhh sometimes , get used to it.. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Ha, at least one in disguise that I know of ....and a couple more far too damn sympathetic to those that would destroy our nation and turn it into a damn third world hellhole. You being one of them pedro.. Fact.. Truth and reality are both a bitchhh sometimes , get used to it.. -Tyr

Maybe if you could tell the difference between truth and reality.

[aboutime]

Ha, at least one in disguise that I know of ....and a couple more far too damn sympathetic to those that would destroy our nation and turn it into a damn third world hellhole. You being one of them pedro.. Fact.. Truth and reality are both a bitchhh sometimes , get used to it.. -Tyr

Tyr. FJ is partially right. But then. RINO's always think they are right about everything.

[SassyLady]

Oh for Pete's sake. There are no LEFTIES here. The only one is Gabbie and she can't/won't even string a coherent argument together. All the other ones have been run off. I for one hope an actual leftist DOES show up.

If we had more liberals then this board wouldn't be stagnating so much.

[Drummond]

If we had more liberals then this board wouldn't be stagnating so much.

I can agree with that one !!! More Lefties would keep the place 'hopping' ...

Trouble is, though, that I've seen where it leads, Sassy. I've seen a forum ruined by an invasion of Left-wingers, whose intent was very clearly that of smashing up the forum so that it became impossible to decently, coherently, debate anything at all.

Having experienced that once, I'm not in favour of seeing it happen again. Ever.

I've never heard of Right-wingers ever trying that with Leftie-oriented sites, much less succeeding. But those of the Left aren't above such tactics. I do KNOW this to be true.

[hjmick]

Oh, I believe you! Anyone wanting an idea of what a left wing kook ran site looks like, simply go to democraticunderground! All you need do there is introduce yourself as a republican and they will ban you. They WANT voices from only one side. My old board, which went from like 500,000 posts to about 7 million since I sold it, is infested with chaos and fighting. Great, threads are 20 pages long an hour after you start them, but they are useless. I know what you speak of.

But one man is not an infestation, and he's not the type you would ever find schmoozing over at DU either. I know you may not want to hear it, but he's WAY more conservative than he is a leftie - just not entirely right wing cool nutcases like you and I.

The only thing I would like to get overrun by is good discussions. If what you saw at that old board ever happens here - remind me - I'll pay the fees for a new domain and hosting and start us a new website myself!

What's currently happening at USMB is a joke. A fucking joke. Over moderated horseshit, vile and disgusting posts, constant arguing, no serious discussion, no respect. It is really not worth trying to start an honest, serious discussion over there...

[Kathianne]

What's currently happening at USMB is a joke. A fucking joke. Over moderated horseshit, vile and disgusting posts, constant arguing, no serious discussion, no respect. It is really not worth trying to start an honest, serious discussion over there...

Yep, I confine myself to education related and some political threads. I pretty much ignore responses to my posts, unless they are 'spot on.'

[jimnyc]

What's currently happening at USMB is a joke. A fucking joke. Over moderated horseshit, vile and disgusting posts, constant arguing, no serious discussion, no respect. It is really not worth trying to start an honest, serious discussion over there...

Yeah, it's sad to look at it and think back to what it once was. It's proof that sheer volume and numbers won't produce quality. Open any good subject, it's 102 pages long and 102 different subjects and 102 different arguments going on. Our problems here are tame in comparison! I still dare anyone that thinks we aren't fair to go and join DU and attempt to be reasonable. I wouldn't ask people to troll elsewhere as I wouldn't want it done here. But you'll be absolutely reasonable and gone real quick. Just tell them you're a Ronald Reagan fan from way back!

[aboutime]

Yeah, it's sad to look at it and think back to what it once was. It's proof that sheer volume and numbers won't produce quality. Open any good subject, it's 102 pages long and 102 different subjects and 102 different arguments going on. Our problems here are tame in comparison! I still dare anyone that thinks we aren't fair to go and join DU and attempt to be reasonable. I wouldn't ask people to troll elsewhere as I wouldn't want it done here. But you'll be absolutely reasonable and gone real quick. Just tell them you're a Ronald Reagan fan from way back!

Jim. Many years ago. While Bush was still in office. I tried to join DU. Never got past the first couple of questions. So that didn't happen. They even managed to create a Cookie with my IP address that even stopped me from viewing anything there.
Probably a good thing. For me. Now I can safely laugh at them all the time, and they have no idea what is going on.