Muslim Prayer Coming to a School Near You

[Voted4Reagan]

show me something that proves the set times did not apply to the people then. Should be easy, right?

What applies to the Clergy also applies to the Laity as concerning the hours of prayer.

No Monastic or Canon Documents make any kind of distinction between the two.

The people were to emulate and live their lives according to the bible and the rulings from the Pope as Gods representitive on Earth.

The Hours of Prayer apply to all... not just the Clergy.

Weather one abides by them is between that person and God and is a matter of PERSONAL FAITH.

The Hours are not Optional..

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
show me something that proves the set times did not apply to the people then. Should be easy, right?

What applies to the Clergy also applies to the Laity as concerning the hours of prayer.

No Monastic or Canon Documents make any kind of distinction between the two.

The people were to emulate and live their lives according to the bible and the rulings from the Pope as Gods representitive on Earth.

The Hours of Prayer apply to all... not just the Clergy.

Weather one abides by them is between that person and God and is a matter of PERSONAL FAITH.

The Hours are not Optional..

yup.

[jimnyc]

It's not a long part of Catholic laity's history.

The Liturgy of the Hours (Latin: Liturgia Horarum) or Divine Office (Latin: Officium Divinum) or canonical hours, often referred to as the Breviary, is the official set of daily prayers prescribed by the Catholic Church to be recited by clergy, religious institutes, and laity.

What applies to the Clergy also applies to the Laity as concerning the hours of prayer.

No Monastic or Canon Documents make any kind of distinction between the two.

The people were to emulate and live their lives according to the bible and the rulings from the Pope as Gods representitive on Earth.

The Hours of Prayer apply to all... not just the Clergy.

Weather one abides by them is between that person and God and is a matter of PERSONAL FAITH.

The Hours are not Optional..

Yep, and with that I will rest my case. If some are unaware of it, or choose not to follow it, not my problem. But the hours exist and it's fact.

[jimnyc]

I'm NOT saying it's only for priests, but that it's only traditional for priests and not traditional for all Christians.

It's not traditional for the priesthood on up - but MANDATORY. Then it IS traditional for parishioners and such to follow the prayer guidelines that the church sets out.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Missileman

It's not a long part of Catholic laity's history.

The Liturgy of the Hours (Latin: Liturgia Horarum) or Divine Office (Latin: Officium Divinum) or canonical hours, often referred to as the Breviary, is the official set of daily prayers prescribed by the Catholic Church to be recited by clergy, religious institutes, and laity.

Originally Posted by Voted4Reagan

What applies to the Clergy also applies to the Laity as concerning the hours of prayer.

No Monastic or Canon Documents make any kind of distinction between the two.

The people were to emulate and live their lives according to the bible and the rulings from the Pope as Gods representitive on Earth.

The Hours of Prayer apply to all... not just the Clergy.

Weather one abides by them is between that person and God and is a matter of PERSONAL FAITH.

The Hours are not Optional..

Yep, and with that I will rest my case. If some are unaware of it, or choose not to follow it, not my problem. But the hours exist and it's fact.

Come on, they're not 'really' Catholic

[Missileman]

show me something that proves the set times did not apply to the people then. Should be easy, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_hours

Current practice

Priests are required by canon law to pray the entire Divine Office each day while permanent deacons are required to pray the morning and evening hours. All clerics are free to use the Liturgy of the Hours or the traditional Roman Breviary, according to the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, to fulfill this obligation. The practice among religious communities varies according to their rules and constitutions. The Second Vatican Council also exhorted the Christian laity to take up the practice, and as a result, many lay people have begun reciting portions of the Liturgy of the Hours.

[jimnyc]

show me something that proves the set times did not apply to the people then. Should be easy, right?

[h=3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_hours

Sounds like it applies to the people to me:

The Second Vatican Council also exhorted the Christian laity to take up the practice, and as a result, many lay people have begun reciting portions of the Liturgy of the Hours.

What you posted shows that the Catholic Church wants the laity to follow the hours and that many of them have - which is what I said from the get go.

[Abbey Marie]

I haven't read every word of this debate, but it seems to me that whether or not any religion mandates specific prayer times, the important point being lost here is that Christians have been repeatedly threatened with law suits for expressing their religion in school. To the point that schools are afraid of a lawsuit for Jeff's child saying a quiet pre-meal prayer. To have this accommodation made in the face of all that is grossly hypocritical. And arguably violates (I'm really reaching back in memory here, so not sure on this) the Equal Protection clause.

[BillyBob]

For Christians, there are no set times for prayer any more than there is a set day for the Sabbath.

[red states rule]

I haven't read every word of this debate, but it seems to me that whether or not any religion mandates specific prayer times, the important point being lost here is that Christians have been repeatedly threatened with law suits for expressing their religion in school. To the point that schools are afraid of a lawsuit for Jeff's child saying a quiet pre-meal prayer. To have this accommodation made in the face of all that is grossly hypocritical. And arguably violates (I'm really reaching back in memory here, so not sure on this) the Equal Protection clause.

Abbey it is now "cool" to smear, insult, threaten, and sue Christians

Sadly, the hate that is shown toward Christains workwide is reaching the same level af hate Jews experienced in Germany in the late 20's and early 30's

[jimnyc]

I haven't read every word of this debate, but it seems to me that whether or not any religion mandates specific prayer times, the important point being lost here is that Christians have been repeatedly threatened with law suits for expressing their religion in school. To the point that schools are afraid of a lawsuit for Jeff's child saying a quiet pre-meal prayer. To have this accommodation made in the face of all that is grossly hypocritical. And arguably violates (I'm really reaching back in memory here, so not sure on this) the Equal Protection clause.

Another angle that hasn't been mentioned yet. Supposedly these kids will be able to go and pray, out of class, only if they achieve a certain grade level? In other words, it doesn't even apply to all Muslims. So what if a Muslim kid just simply isn't as bright as others? He's "punished" and can't go pray with his friends? I never heard of intelligence being a factor as to whether or not one can say their prayers. This decision is not only not fair to all religions (that I can read), but is wholly unfair to the Muslim kids themselves.

Imagine the kid going home to his Dad. Little Abdul, why are you so upset? "Daddy, they told me in school that I can't say my prayers with the others because I only got a C in my class. I tried and tried and tried as hard as I could, but that's the best I was able to do. Why can I not pray with them, Dad?"

[jimnyc]

For Christians, there are no set times for prayer any more than there is a set day for the Sabbath.

Can't get any more definitive then the canonical hours. Maybe what you should say is that not all Catholics observe what is expected of them? I will admit that not every Catholic likely prays at set hours, while a lot do, but there ARE 100% set times, whether people outside the Church itself follow it or not.

[Abbey Marie]

Another angle that hasn't been mentioned yet. Supposedly these kids will be able to go and pray, out of class, only if they achieve a certain grade level? In other words, it doesn't even apply to all Muslims. So what if a Muslim kid just simply isn't as bright as others? He's "punished" and can't go pray with his friends? I never heard of intelligence being a factor as to whether or not one can say their prayers. This decision is not only not fair to all religions (that I can read), but is wholly unfair to the Muslim kids themselves.

Imagine the kid going home to his Dad. Little Abdul, why are you so upset? "Daddy, they told me in school that I can't say my prayers with the others because I only got a C in my class. I tried and tried and tried as hard as I could, but that's the best I was able to do. Why can I not pray with them, Dad?"

It is customary to deny extra-curricular activities to kids whose grades are poor, but this is a whole different thing. Where is the ACLU on this? Oh, that's right, they're too busy fighting Christianity.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius show me something that proves the set times did not apply to the people then. Should be easy, right?

Originally Posted by Missileman

[h=3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_hours

Sounds like it applies to the people to me:

The Second Vatican Council also exhorted the Christian laity to take up the practice, and as a result, many lay people have begun reciting portions of the Liturgy of the Hours.

you beat me to it.

[BillyBob]

Can't get any more definitive then the canonical hours. Maybe what you should say is that not all Catholics observe what is expected of them? I will admit that not every Catholic likely prays at set hours, while a lot do, but there ARE 100% set times, whether people outside the Church itself follow it or not.

If it's not Scriptural, then it doesn't apply.