What Sweden Can Tell Us About Obamacare

[WiccanLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/bu...care.html?_r=0

While in Sweden this month as a visiting scholar, I’ve asked several Swedish health economists to share their thoughts about that question. They have spent their lives under a system in which most health care providers work directly for the government. Like economists in most other countries, they tend to be skeptical of large bureaucracies. So if extensive government involvement in health care is indeed a recipe for doom, they should have clear evidence of that by now.
Yet none of them voiced the kinds of complaints about recalcitrant bureaucrats and runaway health costs that invariably surface in similar conversations with American colleagues. Little wonder. The Swedish system performs superbly, and my Swedish colleagues cited evidence of that fact with obvious pride.
The United States spends more than $8,000 a person per year on health care, well more than twice what Sweden spends. Yet health outcomes are far better in Sweden along virtually every dimension. Its infant mortality rate, for example, was recently less than half that of the United States. And males aged 15 to 60 are almost twice as likely to die in any given year in the United States than in Sweden.


I don't think the current Affordable Care Act is any kind of answer but the article does raise some interesting points about a system that does.

[tailfins]

How much is 4 liters of gasoline or 4 liters of milk in Sweden? If you make US$100K, how much do you get to keep? Even with Obamacare mandating more expensive coverage, a good family health policy is about $20K per year.

[WiccanLiberal]

Well looking at total costs, the tax rates and costs are high but the system apparently works well for the Swedes. Not only healthcare but day care and education are all free as is dental care up to age 18. Public transportation is excellent apparently and employment is quite high. Workers get 5 weeks vacation and paid parental leave. Crime is low and citizen satisfaction is high. Costs of individual items are higher but when you don't have to worry about the cost of your health care and education and day care for the kids, the amount seems to balance out. I'm not sure about the entirety of the system working here but i don't think it should be dismissed either.

[Robert A Whit]

Well looking at total costs, the tax rates and costs are high but the system apparently works well for the Swedes. Not only healthcare but day care and education are all free as is dental care up to age 18. Public transportation is excellent apparently and employment is quite high. Workers get 5 weeks vacation and paid parental leave. Crime is low and citizen satisfaction is high. Costs of individual items are higher but when you don't have to worry about the cost of your health care and education and day care for the kids, the amount seems to balance out. I'm not sure about the entirety of the system working here but i don't think it should be dismissed either.

Sweden has a mere 5 million people and I don't believe the world is rushing there. A country so tiny is bad to compare this country to. We have double that in the SF Bay areas 13 counties.

The CIA world factbook has a lot of data. Including that per capita, they earn only $41,000 per annum. Someone has to pay for the health care and if not the Swedes, who?

I would love to see a study of them and others that often are talked about as to how they manage given the tiny number taking care of agriculture.

We also find the Swedes do not support south of our Border illegal aliens nor is our other main drain on government resources a problem to the Swedes.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/sw.html

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/bu...care.html?_r=0

While in Sweden this month as a visiting scholar, I’ve asked several Swedish health economists to share their thoughts about that question. They have spent their lives under a system in which most health care providers work directly for the government. Like economists in most other countries, they tend to be skeptical of large bureaucracies. So if extensive government involvement in health care is indeed a recipe for doom, they should have clear evidence of that by now.
Yet none of them voiced the kinds of complaints about recalcitrant bureaucrats and runaway health costs that invariably surface in similar conversations with American colleagues. Little wonder. The Swedish system performs superbly, and my Swedish colleagues cited evidence of that fact with obvious pride.
The United States spends more than $8,000 a person per year on health care, well more than twice what Sweden spends. Yet health outcomes are far better in Sweden along virtually every dimension. Its infant mortality rate, for example, was recently less than half that of the United States. And males aged 15 to 60 are almost twice as likely to die in any given year in the United States than in Sweden.


I don't think the current Affordable Care Act is any kind of answer but the article does raise some interesting points about a system that does.

Here's how they pay for it:

	United States	Sweden	Difference
Restaurants	[Edit]	[Edit]
Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant	10.00 $	13.83 $	+38.26 %
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course	45.00 $	77.67 $	+72.61 %
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar	6.00 $	10.10 $	+68.29 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught)	3.00 $	7.77 $	+158.91 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle)	4.50 $	7.77 $	+72.61 %
Cappuccino (regular)	3.50 $	4.66 $	+33.15 %
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle)	1.50 $	2.33 $	+55.35 %
Water (0.33 liter bottle)	1.25 $	2.33 $	+86.42 %
Markets	[Edit]	[Edit]
Milk (regular), 1 liter	1.00 $	1.40 $	+39.81 %
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g)	2.20 $	3.11 $	+40.93 %
Rice (1kg)	2.20 $	2.87 $	+30.36 %
Eggs (12)	2.00 $	3.88 $	+94.18 %
Local Cheese (1kg)	8.91 $	12.43 $	+39.49 %
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg)	7.00 $	12.43 $	+77.54 %
Apples (1kg)	3.31 $	3.11 $	-6.05 %
Oranges (1kg)	3.31 $	3.03 $	-8.40 %
Tomato (1kg)	3.00 $	3.81 $	+26.87 %
Potato (1kg)	2.20 $	1.21 $	-45.04 %
Lettuce (1 head)	1.50 $	2.25 $	+50.17 %
Water (1.5 liter bottle)	1.79 $	2.02 $	+12.82 %
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range)	12.00 $	12.27 $	+2.27 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle)	2.00 $	2.33 $	+16.51 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle)	3.00 $	2.33 $	-22.33 %
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro)	6.00 $	7.77 $	+29.46 %
Transportation	[Edit]	[Edit]
One-way Ticket (Local Transport)	2.00 $	3.73 $	+86.42 %
Monthly Pass (Regular Price)	65.00 $	107.97 $	+66.10 %
Taxi Start (Normal Tariff)	3.00 $	6.99 $	+133.02 %
Taxi 1km (Normal Tariff)	1.40 $	1.86 $	+33.34 %
Taxi 1hour Waiting (Normal Tariff)	27.00 $	66.02 $	+144.53 %
Gasoline (1 liter)	0.99 $	2.18 $	+119.77 %
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car)	20,000.00 $	27,962.47 $	+39.81 %
Utilities (Monthly)	[Edit]	[Edit]
Basic (Electricity, Heating, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment	170.00 $	155.35 $	-8.62 %
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans)	0.12 $	0.16 $	+29.46 %
Internet (6 Mbps, Unlimited Data, Cable/ADSL)	45.00 $	31.07 $	-30.96 %
Sports And Leisure	[Edit]	[Edit]
Fitness Club, Monthly Fee for 1 Adult	40.00 $	54.37 $	+35.93 %
Tennis Court Rent (1 Hour on Weekend)	20.00 $	31.07 $	+55.35 %
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat	10.00 $	17.09 $	+70.88 %
Clothing And Shoes	[Edit]	[Edit]
1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar)	40.00 $	139.81 $	+249.53 %
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M, ...)	35.00 $	46.60 $	+33.15 %
1 Pair of Nike Shoes	75.00 $	124.28 $	+65.70 %
1 Pair of Men Leather Shoes	80.00 $	155.35 $	+94.18 %
Rent Per Month	[Edit]	[Edit]
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre	900.00 $	932.08 $	+3.56 %
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre	700.00 $	621.39 $	-11.23 %
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre	1,500.00 $	1,553.47 $	+3.56 %
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre	1,200.00 $	1,087.43 $	-9.38 %
Buy Apartment Price	[Edit]	[Edit]
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre	1,614.59 $	7,767.35 $	+381.07 %
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre	1,184.03 $	3,883.68 $	+228.00 %
Salaries And Financing	[Edit]	[Edit]
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax)	3,200.00 $	3,106.94 $	-2.91 %
Mortgage Interest Rate in Percentages (%), Yearly	4.25	3.98	-6.47 %

[fj1200]

I don't think the current Affordable Care Act is any kind of answer but the article does raise some interesting points about a system that does.

I don't think Sweden can tell us anything about ACA because the similarities to Sweden vs. the US are so small not the least of which is that insurance is consumer driven rather than business/government driven as is here. An interesting comparison here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/201...n-health-care/

The comments are atypically helpful because the author responds directly to the criticisms that are raised.

[Trigg]

Well looking at total costs, the tax rates and costs are high but the system apparently works well for the Swedes. Not only healthcare but day care and education are all free as is dental care up to age 18. Public transportation is excellent apparently and employment is quite high. Workers get 5 weeks vacation and paid parental leave. Crime is low and citizen satisfaction is high. Costs of individual items are higher but when you don't have to worry about the cost of your health care and education and day care for the kids, the amount seems to balance out. I'm not sure about the entirety of the system working here but i don't think it should be dismissed either.

They are worrying about healthcare, but it's in the form of taxes and astronomical gas prices. As far as education if they are the same as Finland that is a joke. Kids have to TEST into high school, if they are unable to they are steered in technical or farm studies.

My sister has lived there for 16 yrs and honestly listening to some of her stories I cringe at the thought of having the same system. It works well for young healthy people. Everyone who can afford it buys PRIVATE insurance (Australians and English do the same as Drummond), so that if they do get sick they can see an actual physician instead of a physicians assistant. They have a massive doctor shortage.

[Robert A Whit]

I don't think Sweden can tell us anything about ACA because the similarities to Sweden vs. the US are so small not the least of which is that insurance is consumer driven rather than business/government driven as is here. An interesting comparison here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/201...n-health-care/

The comments are atypically helpful because the author responds directly to the criticisms that are raised.

You all should study Taiwan's model of health care.

This is just me, but I believe theirs tops European models or the Japanese model.

[Marcus Aurelius]

You all should study Taiwan's model of health care.

This is just me, but I believe theirs tops European models or the Japanese model.

Yeah, this sounds great...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Taiwan

Even with all their success in their health care system, Taiwan has suffered some misfortunes. The government is not taking in enough money to cover the services it provides, so it is borrowing money from banks.^[15] The revenue base is capped so it does not keep pace with the increase in national income. Premiums are regulated by politicians^[16] and they are afraid to raise premiums because of voters. The country is slow at adopting technology except for drugs. There is a low doctor-to-population ratio resulting in too many patients depending on too few doctors. Patients visit the doctor more frequently causing doctors to keep visits short to about 2 to 5 minutes per patient.^[17] There is no system to regulate systematic reporting of clinical performance, patient outcomes and adverse events.

I don't think so.

[Trigg]

sounds like the same problems Finland has.

Too few doctors.

Everything is "FREE" so they go to the ER for a sniffle, which is a waste of time and resources.