The peace process, moratorium and other "Jewish things"

[Marcus Aurelius]

I don't understand you! You are here for the manager! Why did you tell me what should I do? I'm not asking you, and you not only don't answer the question, but send me to another topic. I think it's not very polite. Do you believe that I have a conversation with you only!

You generally don't HAVE conversations here. You post copies of articles you posted in dozens of other places, then fail to answer when someone asks a question or makes a point of a particular piece.

[Alik Bahshi]

Am I imagining it, or are these getting shorter ???

Congrats, Alik.

A quick reply, though. Alik, your text is clearly heavily-weighted against Israel. Would I be correct in thinking that you've no interest in posting anything which SUPPORTS Israel ?

Just a thought. Hope to see you proving me wrong on that one sometime.

But the point about Israel, Alik, is that it's a Nation State that's been historically (since the late 1940's, anyway) surrounded by enemies which greatly oppose even its right to exist ! Naturally they'll arm themselves to the teeth in the face of that opposition. Naturally they'll strive to carve out a decent existence for themselves, and they'll do so in the certain knowledge that there are all sorts of Muslim groupings out there who'll find any excuse to stop them.

The fiction of 'Palestine' comes to mind. Palestine fails to be recognisable, internationally, as a Nation State in its own right. But, try telling that to those choosing to identify themselves as 'Palestinians' !!

How big a percentage of 'Palestinians' want Israel, a legitimate Nation State, to fail ? How many have been involved in terrorist activities to further their hatreds ?

Alik, I've seen you refer to Israel's 'aggression'. But the real aggression comes from a terrorist melting-pot of groups who'll kill anyone they want to further their bloodlust against Israel.

In the face of all this, do you REALLY think America shouldn't be fully supportive of Israel, in her seemingly never-ending struggles ???

So I just ask The you, you are against the thesis of "two states for two peoples," waited but still no answer. Conclusion: You do not want to answer. This implies that you do not want Israel to leave the occupied territories, the territory on which the Palestinians are living without any rights. These people are not citizens of Israel, they have no one at all! Israel has a right strong thanks to the U.S., but the question is how long can this continue? U.S. block all decisions of the Council UN Security and Compliance, supporting Israel in its aggressive intentions of violating international legal and moral norms, and the case with the "Mavi Marmara" only confirms this.

[Voted4Reagan]

So I just ask The you, you are against the thesis of "two states for two peoples," waited but still no answer. Conclusion: You do not want to answer. This implies that you do not want Israel to leave the occupied territories, the territory on which the Palestinians are living without any rights. These people are not citizens of Israel, they have no one at all! Israel has a right strong thanks to the U.S., but the question is how long can this continue? U.S. block all decisions of the Council UN Security and Compliance, supporting Israel in its aggressive intentions of violating international legal and moral norms, and the case with the "Mavi Marmara" only confirms this.

As it has been pointed out to you before..The Mavi Marmara incident was conducted LEGALLY in accordance with international law and the Treaty of Paris 1856, Hague Convention of 1907, and the San Remo Manual.

To continue to try and make it seem illegal is intellectually dishonest of you. In other words... You are propagating a LIE.

[fj1200]

So I just ask The you, you are against the thesis of "two states for two peoples," waited but still no answer. Conclusion: You do not want to answer. This implies that you do not want Israel to leave the occupied territories, the territory on which the Palestinians are living without any rights. These people are not citizens of Israel, they have no one at all! Israel has a right strong thanks to the U.S., but the question is how long can this continue? U.S. block all decisions of the Council UN Security and Compliance, supporting Israel in its aggressive intentions of violating international legal and moral norms, and the case with the "Mavi Marmara" only confirms this.

Interesting question but the problem is that they are in no position to be able to govern effectively. I'd guess that there is not one part of society that is ready to be an independent state and they're regressing in that ability. The more relevant question is when CAN there be two states?

[Voted4Reagan]

Interesting question but the problem is that they are in no position to be able to govern effectively. I'd guess that there is not one part of society that is ready to be an independent state and they're regressing in that ability. The more relevant question is when CAN there be two states?

Good point Fj1200

Until they renounce violence as a means to statehood the Palestinians will continue to back slide.... they keep falling lower and lower as time passes...

The Modern world is leaving them behind

[Robert A Whit]

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The peace process, moratorium and other "Jewish things"
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Known expression "Jewishthings" implying a trick, just what we needed for the situation surrounding the peace process and the Israeli moratorium on building Jewish settlements in occupied Palestine, declared Israel, due to the start of negotiations under the motto of "two states for two peoples." It isimportant to note that the initiator of the negotiations is Washington, not Israel. Young ambitious President Barack Obama's decision to finally put an endto half a century of Arab-Israeli conflict - a perennial headache for all U.S.presidents. Problem exacerbated by the fact that Obama inherited legacy fromthe near best president ever to have the former owners of the White House. InBush's no step that could mark a "plus”. <o></o
His "friend of Putin" turned to Russia for the world to return it into an empire. And the next performance of permanent war "road map" to blow up buses and raids F-16, put on American taxpayers' money, which Bush quietly watched from across the ocean,suddenly turned to American reality: the battle to the surprise of Bush'sSeptember 11 crossed the ocean, having appeared on his door step. .
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<!--[endif]--><o></o After Arab attacks on America on September11 as an ally of Israel, with a light hand on the policy amateur cowboy Bush permanent Arab-Israeli war in Afghanistan is spreading due to thefact that its territory entrenched Arab Al-Qaeda organization, whose aim is tofight against Israel and its ally America for the liberation of the Palestinian people. Bush instead of treating the disease, he began to treat her symptoms,that is not engaged in the task resolutely put an end to the Arab-Israeli conflict, and began to chase Bin Laden in Afghanistan, causing death and destruction in the country, whose people are generally far from this long-standing conflict . Then Bush sold before that started against global public opinion ofthe war in Iraq under the pretext of the presence of weapons of massdestruction, which I think has caused in describable delight in Tehran obscurantist who could not dream that America will be handed their worst enemy hanged Saddam Hussein and his country will flood the blood of religious strife.Moreover, Tehran now has every reason to take up arms, if all sides there is awar, and how it is not sad, it is reasonable and correctly determines that thecause of the fire of the military in the Middle East is Israel. The motivation of the invasion of Iraq to end the dictator and establish a democracy in Iraqis a prime example of political stupidity of Bush. With high probability we can assume that, before the last U.S. troops leave Iraq, everything, so to speak Iraqi erzats Democrats in advance will be outside the country. Democracy cannot be introduced by the bayonets of the marines, the people who do not acceptits value, it would be like to present a gift to the Jewish religion as adelicacy roasted pig.<o></o
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<!--[endif]--><o></o Thanks to U.S. support for Israel'saggressive policy of the entire Middle East region today is continuous fire,which is growing alarmingly, involving the country did not initially have anyrelation to the conflict: Afghanistan, a potential candidate - Iran and evenformer strategic partner of Israel - Turkey could become, if not a direct , theindirect participant.<o></o
In order to deflect responsibility for what happens, Israel wants to present aconflict as a war of civilizations, intentionally pointing to the religiousovertones, looking for the root of evil in Islam, which is not only wrong, but criminal, because it may reveal a Pandora's box, left inside, push the worldinto a religious war between Christianity and Islam ("International Terrorismand the interested parties»).<o></o
In order to save his country from the heavy burden of the political, economicand military problems of Middle East, Obama intends to complete the so-calledpeace process, which had long been a process, and certainly not peace, itsoutcome, namely the world or even out of the process, which is actually the most effective, because time will solve all problems, and for all.<o></o
And no brainer that Israel is not interested in a Palestinian state, becausethe inevitable loss of large parts of the disenfranchised and cheap labor inthe fields of production, in which Jews traditionally do not work. Israel isquite happy with the current situation, when America not only provides thesecurity of Israel, equipped with modern weapons and monetary donations, butalso fights for his interests by sending troops to Afghanistan and Iraq, whose people suffered severely because of Israel. As for the peace process, all it sapparentsenselessness failure Barack discuss the status of Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, and the following Sharon's provocation with the ascent to the Temple Mount, in which the Arabs will see the real intentions ofIsrael, marked the beginning of the intifada. In essence, the peace process isnot for the Jews and the Arabs, and for its founders, under pressure and he started already in 1991 in Madrid, when Yitzhak Shamir literally pulled the earsto the conference. Israel's refusal to Saudi peace initiative, which is areflection of the principle of "two states for two peoples," was the cause of radicalization in the Palestinian media and the coming to power ofHamas, whose leaders see, and it is reasonable, in an endless peace processonly the continuation of the occupation and apartheid against its own people,because otherwise as reservation, conditions created by Israel in the occupied territories cannot be named.<o></o
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<!--[endif]--><o></o Of course, Obama, knowing the history of delaying the peace process, not count on the indispensable success and the factthat we can make progress in the negotiations proved futile because of Israel'srefusal to extend a moratorium on construction, I think it is not particularly upset.Before we take a major step to roll strategic cooperation with Israel, Obamagave Israel another chance to negotiate with the Arabs that Israel is onceagain rejected by manipulating the moratorium. Games with clear moratorium isto play for time by the end of Obama's tenure as president, and the failure ofthe implementation of the principle of "two states for two peoples"will affect the overall evaluation of his work and the chances of a secondterm. But Obama has a good and a very strong move, just take advantage of thisvery moratorium. The fact that it freeze its time frame reveals the trueintentions of Israel - to annex the occupied territory. Who will build a houseon land that will have to pay along with the house! Temporary moratorium on the construction of said only one thing, the futility of the peace process, in that way, and show the Palestinians. Obama not to appear schemer, is simply obliged to raze this, and he is entitled to do so, remove the American commitment tothe security of Israel, that is, to stop the supply of arms and blocking theSecurity Council resolutions condemning Israel, saying it is the temporary nature of the moratorium.<o></o
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<!--[endif]--><o></o As for the other "Jewish stuff"in the peace process, they have absolutely nothing to cost, because poverty inthe peace process and will disappear except for Israel, it is no one will beneeded. But the question is, not too late to wish to have peace with the Arabswould be for Israel ("Israel - the way to oblivion»).<o></o
As a result, Israel will be left alone to face their many challenges (economic,political, demographic, - it is unlikely that the Jews of America will leave itfor the sake of Israel) in disastrous for the country's isolation. Most ofIsrael's self-confidence as a result will be not only the inevitability of theemergence of a Palestinian state, but also the future of the Jewish state willbe threatened. Israeli moratorium on building can turn out a moratorium on theexistence of the State of Israel. Become like the master of the fate of the abandoned dog chain, in which each boy averse run stone, that's what awaits Israel in the event of failure of American guardianship so recalcitrant ally,for an ally, it is too strong a word, because America from such a union doesnot have any benefit.
<o></o Obama's attempts to solve the Arab-Israeliconflict has one single purpose - to free America from the shackles imposed upon them by the Jewish lobby, which will improve the political climate notonly in the Middle East but throughout the world, would deprive Iran and BinLaden ayatola ideological background and return America status the country'sfaithful to the principles of democracy and justice.<o></o

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<!--[endif]--><o></o"Lett he troubles of the world are connected node<o></o
Do not give in to them, fight against evil "<o></o
Nizami
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And THIS is what the so called debate was really all about. I spotted in his commentary to Reagan. Reagan decided to take a total different path then he wants me to say he won the debate.

Since Reagan punted, let me take this guy on.

1. Bush tried to allow grown ups settle this rather than make it the job of America. The Arabs peace plan in my view was a good foundation. Arafat was in it for the money he got.

2. Since when is it our job to set these two groups down?

3. As to Palestine, maybe it has been recognized and I am just ignorant. I plan to check though.

4. Obama has no chance to resolve this. And believe me, the man is inept. Counting on him amounts to you counting on a very inexperienced man who never should have been president. He never was qualified.

5. You do not understand the Bush way of war. Bush helped the free Afghanis kick out the Taliban and at the same time move out Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was no friend to the Afghani people. And the Taliban were despots. You are not reading the correct books to learn the Bush way of war. Bush entire mission was to free people but not make them believe our forces were there to harm them. We wanted out of Afghanistan almost immediately as we did with Iraq. We had peace in Iraq for most of a year and then all hell broke out. Notice we are gone but the hell continues.

6. Actually it was Afghani forces that got Bin Laden to leave Afghanistan but Americans used the largest bombs other than nuclear we had and tried to locate him to kill him. Those mountains are so wild and steep that goats live there with ease but troops are not superman. Even the Afghan forces did not want to enter Tora Bora.

7. Bush did not wage war to help Israel. Matter of fact, check all wars Israel has been in and they easily won all of them.

8. I see nothing done by Obama to force you to conclude he is helping the problems in that area.

And finally, your arguments make little sense to this reader.

[logroller]

Interesting question but the problem is that they are in no position to be able to govern effectively. I'd guess that there is not one part of society that is ready to be an independent state and they're regressing in that ability. The more relevant question is when CAN there be two states?

An excellent question, but I'm sure their demand will be that they be granted such independent before having to prove their ability to do so. Gotta pass it to see what's in there...

[Alik Bahshi]

And THIS is what the so called debate was really all about. I spotted in his commentary to Reagan. Reagan decided to take a total different path then he wants me to say he won the debate.

Since Reagan punted, let me take this guy on.

1. Bush tried to allow grown ups settle this rather than make it the job of America. The Arabs peace plan in my view was a good foundation. Arafat was in it for the money he got.

2. Since when is it our job to set these two groups down?

3. As to Palestine, maybe it has been recognized and I am just ignorant. I plan to check though.

4. Obama has no chance to resolve this. And believe me, the man is inept. Counting on him amounts to you counting on a very inexperienced man who never should have been president. He never was qualified.

5. You do not understand the Bush way of war. Bush helped the free Afghanis kick out the Taliban and at the same time move out Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was no friend to the Afghani people. And the Taliban were despots. You are not reading the correct books to learn the Bush way of war. Bush entire mission was to free people but not make them believe our forces were there to harm them. We wanted out of Afghanistan almost immediately as we did with Iraq. We had peace in Iraq for most of a year and then all hell broke out. Notice we are gone but the hell continues.

6. Actually it was Afghani forces that got Bin Laden to leave Afghanistan but Americans used the largest bombs other than nuclear we had and tried to locate him to kill him. Those mountains are so wild and steep that goats live there with ease but troops are not superman. Even the Afghan forces did not want to enter Tora Bora.

7. Bush did not wage war to help Israel. Matter of fact, check all wars Israel has been in and they easily won all of them.

8. I see nothing done by Obama to force you to conclude he is helping the problems in that area.

And finally, your arguments make little sense to this reader.



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O.K. You can answer, what good Bush has done for America and Iraq, the war in Iraq?

[Robert A Whit]

Originally Posted by Robert A Whit
And THIS is what the so called debate was really all about. I spotted in his commentary to Reagan. Reagan decided to take a total different path then he wants me to say he won the debate.

Since Reagan punted, let me take this guy on.

1. Bush tried to allow grown ups settle this rather than make it the job of America. The Arabs peace plan in my view was a good foundation. Arafat was in it for the money he got.

2. Since when is it our job to set these two groups down?

3. As to Palestine, maybe it has been recognized and I am just ignorant. I plan to check though.

4. Obama has no chance to resolve this. And believe me, the man is inept. Counting on him amounts to you counting on a very inexperienced man who never should have been president. He never was qualified.

5. You do not understand the Bush way of war. Bush helped the free Afghanis kick out the Taliban and at the same time move out Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was no friend to the Afghani people. And the Taliban were despots. You are not reading the correct books to learn the Bush way of war. Bush entire mission was to free people but not make them believe our forces were there to harm them. We wanted out of Afghanistan almost immediately as we did with Iraq. We had peace in Iraq for most of a year and then all hell broke out. Notice we are gone but the hell continues.

6. Actually it was Afghani forces that got Bin Laden to leave Afghanistan but Americans used the largest bombs other than nuclear we had and tried to locate him to kill him. Those mountains are so wild and steep that goats live there with ease but troops are not superman. Even the Afghan forces did not want to enter Tora Bora.

7. Bush did not wage war to help Israel. Matter of fact, check all wars Israel has been in and they easily won all of them.

8. I see nothing done by Obama to force you to conclude he is helping the problems in that area.

And finally, your arguments make little sense to this reader.

O.K. You can answer, what good Bush has done for America and Iraq, the war in Iraq?

For America, nothing. For Iraq and Afghanistan, this is the beginning of a freedom for all those people like they never had in their lives.

Freeing over 50 million humans is a fine accomplishment.

Now to you.

What good has Obama done for you or the Israelis or the Palestinians

And what has Obama done for America?

I am aware he loves talking but his actions do not match his words.

[Alik Bahshi]

For America, nothing. For Iraq and Afghanistan, this is the beginning of a freedom for all those people like they never had in their lives.

Freeing over 50 million humans is a fine accomplishment.

Now to you.

What good has Obama done for you or the Israelis or the Palestinians

And what has Obama done for America?

I am aware he loves talking but his actions do not match his words.

I welcome the democracy that provides freedom of the individual, but not all people have grown to its adoption. Moreover, I believe that it is impossible to bring democracy to the people of the bayonets of the marines, who does not understand it. Every people must mature to democracy without military intervention from outside. And the case with Iraq is a good example of that. Also, the example of Russia, the Russian people have tried the taste of democracy and abandoned it, and the reason is in the mentality of the people. I have an article about it, which was later placed.
As for Obama, I believe in his sincere intention to put an end to the Arab-Israeli conflict, which could otherwise turn into a tragedy for Israel. That's the way the world should pay for everything, and the more put off reckoning, the heavier it is.

[Alik Bahshi]

After Rabin was killed, no one remembers the peace process.

[Gunny]

After Rabin was killed, no one remembers the peace process.

The people who profit from war do not want peace.

[Kathianne]

The people who profit from war do not want peace.

Actually both @SassyLady and I demonstrated some remember plenty.