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  1. #1
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    Default Big Brother is Watching.

    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...ourt-says?lite



    Government can grab cell phone location records without warrant, appeals court says

    By Michael IsikoffNBC News National Investigative Correspondent
    In a major victory for the Justice Department over privacy advocates, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that government agencies can collect records showing the location of an individual's cell phone without obtaining a warrant.
    The 2-1 ruling by the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans upheld the Justice Department's argument that "historical" records showing the location of cell phones, gleaned from cell site location towers, are not protected by the Fourth Amendment.
    A key basis for the ruling: The use of cell phones is "entirely voluntarily" and therefore individuals who use them have forfeited the right to constitutional protection for records showing where they have been used, the court held.
    "The Government does not require a member of the public to own or carry a phone," wrote U.S. Judge Edith Brown Clement in an opinion joined by U.S. Judge Dennis Reavley. The opinion continued: "Because a cell phone user makes a choice to get a phone, to select a particular service provider, and to make a call, and because he knows that call conveys cell site information ... he voluntarily conveys his cell site data each time he makes a call."
    The issue of cell phone location data has become a major and increasingly contentious battleground in the privacy wars. Privacy advocates argue that the proliferation of cell phone towers in the U.S. – 285,561, according to the latest industry records, more than double the number 10 years ago – and new technologies, such as smartphones, permit law enforcement agents to track highly sensitive information about where individuals have been – their homes or trips to see doctors, friends or lovers – without making a showing to a judge that there is "probable cause" that a person has committed a crime.

    Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.The debate has even touched on the National Security Agency's surveillance program: Director of National Intelligence James Clapper last week wrote a letter to Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden stating that the agency has "no current plans" to collect cell phone location data as part of its bulk collection of phone records.
    But Wyden, a Democrat, has repeatedly asserted that the agency has the legal authority to do so, noting in a recent speech that "most of us have a computer in our pocket that potentially can be used to track and monitor us 24/7."
    Tuesday’s ruling involved three cases in which unknown federal agencies applied for 60 days of cell site location data in three criminal investigations. But it is hardly the last word on the subject. The 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that federal judges may require warrants for such data, and the ACLU and other privacy groups this month filed a brief to the 4th Circuit urging that warrants be required for all such government requests.
    "If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips"

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    Insanity the reason given. The use of the U.S. Postal Service IS ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY TOO! HOW DOES THAT JUSTIFY THE INVASION OF PRIVACY, THE SPYING ON THE CITIZENS AND THE INCURSION UPON OUR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH??

    A key basis for the ruling: The use of cell phones is "entirely voluntarily" and therefore individuals who use them have forfeited the right to constitutional protection for records showing where they have been used, the court held.
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    Insanity the reason given. The use of the U.S. Postal Service IS ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY TOO! HOW DOES THAT JUSTIFY THE INVASION OF PRIVACY, THE SPYING ON THE CITIZENS AND THE INCURSION UPON OUR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH??
    I know, right? It's almost impossible to get through today without a cell phone. And it's COMPLETELY wrong for them to think they can just set up shop in your life.
    There's either going to be another civil war, a revolution, or all us smart people on the Right are going to leave, and the country can go to shit.
    "If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips"

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    "Because a cell phone user makes a choice to get a phone, to select a particular service provider, and to make a call, and because he knows that call conveys cell site information ... he voluntarily conveys his cell site data each time he makes a call."

    Completely true... but to the cell phone service provider... NOT the federal government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cadet View Post
    Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...ourt-says?lite
    All may not be lost.

    Stored Communications Act

    In United States v. Warshak (2010)[7] the Sixth Circuit found that email users have a Fourth Amendment-protected reasonable expectation of privacy in the contents of their email accounts and that "to the extent that the SCA purports to permit the government to obtain such emails warrantlessly, the SCA is unconstitutional."[7][8]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_...ent_Disclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius View Post
    Completely true... but to the cell phone service provider... NOT the federal government.
    I'm surprised that they didn't fall back on the public's ownership of the cell phone spectrum.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Why is anyone surprised with this announcement about Big Brother Watching?

    This has been going on, probably longer than a large majority of the members here, have been alive.

    Nothing new. Honestly. Nothing new.

    The difference is. The FOIA and access to the Internet.

    If you need a reminder as to the amount of Free Information out there.

    Just type your own name and address in GOOGLE, or any other Search Engine.

    You shouldn't be surprised, and this thread IS NOT SURPRISE...if anyone pays attention.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutime View Post
    Why is anyone surprised with this announcement about Big Brother Watching?

    This has been going on, probably longer than a large majority of the members here, have been alive.

    Nothing new. Honestly. Nothing new.

    The difference is. The FOIA and access to the Internet.

    If you need a reminder as to the amount of Free Information out there.

    Just type your own name and address in GOOGLE, or any other Search Engine.

    You shouldn't be surprised, and this thread IS NOT SURPRISE...if anyone pays attention.

    The point is, next step is them tapping in to your camera attached to your game system, and watching you get freaky with your wife in the living room.
    Or actually watching you from your computer camera.
    They can see where you are whenever they want.
    And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.

    that's freaking creepy.
    "If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips"

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    The Germans have been protesting in the thousands over the weekend against US spying. http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...728-2qshf.html

    Have any people in the US similarly protested for their constitutional rights?
    اشهد ان لا اله الا الله و اشهد ان محمدا رسول الله

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    Quote Originally Posted by cadet View Post
    And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.
    Not quite:

    Quote Originally Posted by cadet View Post
    Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.

    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite
    There's a standard, albeit a low one, but it's there. The problem is laws written when technology was a fraction of where it is today and are eventually interpreted too broadly.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by cadet View Post
    The point is, next step is them tapping in to your camera attached to your game system, and watching you get freaky with your wife in the living room.
    Or actually watching you from your computer camera.
    They can see where you are whenever they want.
    And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.

    that's freaking creepy.

    Still nothing new cadet. Everything you mentioned above IS ALREADY reality. It can, and is done. More than you, or I will ever know.

    Big Brother is EVERYWHERE. Has been for a very long time. The Crooks have been watching for years. And the Politicians who want the information about their opposition, or political enemies have been active since....long before Nixon's Watergate adventure.

    Nothing is impossible. If anyone has anything they want to hide. There is NO PLACE TO GO.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

  11. #11
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    The use of cell phones is "entirely voluntarily" and therefore individuals who use them have forfeited the right to constitutional protection for records showing where they have been used, the court held.
    "The Government does not require a member of the public to own or carry a phone," wrote U.S. Judge Edith Brown Clement in an opinion joined by U.S. Judge Dennis Reavley. The opinion continued: "Because a cell phone user makes a choice to get a phone, to select a particular service provider, and to make a call, and because he knows that call conveys cell site information ... he voluntarily conveys his cell site data each time he makes a call."
    well i guess,
    since living is voluntary to therefore we have no right to privacy or life either?

    Good thing breathing is involuntary. we might not have a right to that.
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-31-2013 at 03:41 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    when is the march on Washington over this !?
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    when is the march on Washington over this !?
    I wouldn't waste their ability to track my location via cell towers on this one.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj
    Originally Posted by cadet
    And it's WARENTLESS, to tap in to your cell phone, and see where you are. They don't need anything other than boredom to look into where you've been hanging out.
    Not quite:
    Originally Posted by cadet
    Instead, police and law enforcement agents have been obtaining such records under a law called the Stored Communications Act by asserting that there are "specific and articulable facts" showing the records are needed for a criminal investigation – a lower standard.

    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19781508-government-can-grab-cell-phone-location-records-without-warrant-appeals-court-says?lite

    There's a standard, albeit a low one, but it's there. The problem is laws written when technology was a fraction of where it is today and are eventually interpreted too broadly.
    Yes, the problem is the laws were unconstitutional written.
    and they are interpreted too broadly.
    AND the fox is guarding the hen house on the bad law. There's NO external over sight.
    No warrants means NO court will every have to know if they are doing it for any reason , including boredom.
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-31-2013 at 04:31 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    when is the march on Washington over this !?
    If it is not some perverted leftist/lib issue like gay marriage, homosexual rights transgendered beastility crap, eco-Nazi , or black /illegal invader issue there will be no march! Only such extremely important issues warrant such a movement. Constitutional rights be damned!
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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