Syria gas attack work of U.S. allies

[Larrymc]

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-sho...tack-in-syria/

[Marcus Aurelius]

Really? In English?

Reminds me of this bogus pic...



I'm personally waiting for more evidence either way before I place blame for the gas attack.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We should let them kill each other over there. As bad as Assad is those he fights are even worse and they are all muslims! Hell, let them fight, they been fighting each other ever since mohammad's sorry ass was poisoned! There are no good guys in this conflict but one thing is for sure Obama is determined to help the ones most dedicated to our destruction! The chemical attack on civilians would have been no advantage for Assad but have huge advantage for his opposition. When it looks like a dog, barks like a dog and bites like a dog its a damn dog! The media blitz pointing to the wrong party in this was a given. Remember way back when Obama suddenly issued his famous warning to Assad? That was to get the ball rolling on this false flag attack. --Tyr

[jafar00]

We should let them kill each other over there. As bad as Assad is those he fights are even worse and they are all muslims! Hell, let them fight, they been fighting each other ever since mohammad's sorry ass was poisoned! There are no good guys in this conflict but one thing is for sure Obama is determined to help the ones most dedicated to our destruction! The chemical attack on civilians would have been no advantage for Assad but have huge advantage for his opposition. When it looks like a dog, barks like a dog and bites like a dog its a damn dog! The media blitz pointing to the wrong party in this was a given. Remember way back when Obama suddenly issued his famous warning to Assad? That was to get the ball rolling on this false flag attack. --Tyr

Assad is not Muslim. He is Alawite.

[revelarts]

Assad is not Muslim. He is Alawite.

OK had to look that up

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/12399/Alawite

ʿAlawite, Arabic ʿAlawī, plural ʿAlawīyah, also called Nuṣayrī, plural Nuṣayrīyah, or Namīrī, plural Namīrīyah, or Ansarī, plural Ansarīyah, any member of a minority sect of Shīʿite Muslims living chiefly in Syria.




The roots of ʿAlawism lie in the teachings of Muḥammad ibn Nuṣayr an-Namīrī (fl. 850), a Basran contemporary of the 10th Shīʿite imam, and the sect was chiefly established by Ḥusayn ibn Ḥamdān al-Khaṣībī (d. 957 or 968) during the period of the Ḥamdānid dynasty (905–1004), at which time the ʿAlawites had great influence in Aleppo. With the fall of Shiʿite rule, however, the ʿAlawites, with other Shīʿites, became the victims of persecution. They were ill-treated by waves of Crusaders, by Mamlūks, and by Ottoman conquerors, in addition to fighting a number of internecine wars.
Considered by many Muslims to be heretics, the present-day ʿAlawites obtained a legal decision about their status as Muslims from the Lebanese leader of the Ithnā ʿAsharīyah (Twelver) sect of Shīʿite Islām. The ʿAlawite sect has become politically dominant in Syria, particularly since 1971, when Ḥafiz al-Assad, an ʿAlawite, was elected president of the country. The sect is predominant in the Latakia region of Syria, and it extends north to Antioch (Antakya), Turkey. Many ʿAlawites also live around or in Ḥimṣ and Ḥamāh. They are second in number within Syria to the Sunnite sect, which makes up about three-fourths of the Muslim population of mostly Muslim Syria.

The name ʿAlawī is more generally used to refer to all the groups affiliated with one of the ʿAlīs; thus the Muslims usually refer to the Syrian ʿAlawites as Nuṣayrīyah, or Namīrīyah. Though well established in Syria since the 12th century, the ʿAlawites were not able to fully adopt the name ʿAlawī until 1920, the time of French occupation of the area.
The basic doctrine of ʿAlawite faith is the deification of ʿAlī. He is one member of a trinity corresponding roughly to the Christian Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. ʿAlawites interpret the Pillars of Islām (the five duties required of every Muslim) as symbols and thus do not practice the Islāmic duties. They celebrate an eclectic group of holidays, some Islāmic, some Christian, and many ʿAlawite practices are secret. They consider themselves to be moderate Shīʿites, not much different from the Twelvers.

So, J would you agree with this outline of a definition?

And BTW. according to your standards there aren't that many real Muslims in the world.

[jafar00]

OK had to look that up

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/12399/Alawite



So, J would you agree with this outline of a definition?

And BTW. according to your standards there aren't that many real Muslims in the world.

Alawites are not Muslim for the following reasons..

* They believe that Ali is divine in the same way that Christians believe that Jesus is also divine
* They drink alcohol and encourage their women not to wear hijab
* They celebrate Christian, Zoroastrian and Pagan festivals
* They do not pray in the same way or the 5 daily prayers of Muslims

They are a secretive sect and not much else is known about what they do. Some say they are Shia, but the link is only Political. They don't even follow Shiaism.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Assad is not Muslim. He is Alawite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic: علوية‎) are a prominent mystical religious group centred in Syria who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.

dumb ass.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Alawites are not Muslim for the following reasons..

* They believe that Ali is divine in the same way that Christians believe that Jesus is also divine
* They drink alcohol and encourage their women not to wear hijab
* They celebrate Christian, Zoroastrian and Pagan festivals
* They do not pray in the same way or the 5 daily prayers of Muslims

They are a secretive sect and not much else is known about what they do. Some say they are Shia, but the link is only Political. They don't even follow Shiaism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

The Alawites derive their beliefs from the Prophets of Islam, from the Quran, and from the books of the Imams from the Ahlulbayt such as the Nahj al-Balagha by Ali ibn Abu Talib. Alawites are self-described Shi'ite Muslims, and have been recognised as such by Shi'ite authorities such as Ayatollah Khomeini and the influential Lebanese Shi'ite cleric Musa al-Sadr of Lebanon.^{[38][40][41][42][43][44]}

The prominent Sunni Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammad Amin al-Husayni also issued a fatwah recognizing them as part of the Muslim community in the interest of Arab nationalism.^[45][46] Some Sunni scholars such as Ibn Kathir, on the other hand, have categorized Alawites as pagans in their religious works^[47] and documents.^[18][48]

You still claim to be the sole authority on what/who is and is not Islamic... even though you refused to tell us what school of Islam you graduated from, and what exactly your Imam credentials are.

[jafar00]

That a wiki says so doesn't make it true. The Alawite/Shia connection stems from a political link between Iran and the Assad regime. They were not even recognised as Shia until 1974 when Musa Al Sadr recognised them despite major doctrinal differences. Musa Al Sadr is of course the spiritual founder of your great friends and heroes, Hezbollah.

I previously posted what is different between Muslims and Alawites. They are as different to Muslims as Jews are to Christians. You don't need to be a scholar to recognise that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Assad is not Muslim. He is Alawite.

That's muslim dude. By definition and deed that is muslim. No different than if I said Catholics aren't Christians or Methodists aren't Christian. Islam is not one single unit, it has branches. When Shia fight and kill infidels does not Islam profit? Do Shia not believe in Allah, The Quran and the Prophet? The Islamic holy trinity?
God, the word and the Prophet?

[jafar00]

That's muslim dude. By definition and deed that is muslim. No different than if I said Catholics aren't Christians or Methodists aren't Christian. Islam is not one single unit, it has branches. When Shia fight and kill infidels does not Islam profit? Do Shia not believe in Allah, The Quran and the Prophet? The Islamic holy trinity?
God, the word and the Prophet?

What definition of Islam do you have?

Consider this.

* They have a Trinity. Muslims don't.
* They worship Ali (as) as a deity. Muslims worship Allah alone.
* They drink alcohol. Muslims don't as it is forbidden in the Qur'aan.
* They consider the 5 Pillars of Islam (Shahada, Prayer, Charity, Fasting in Ramadan, and Hajj) to be mere symbols and there is no need to follow them. For Muslims the 5 pillars are compulsory. Alawites also have 2 extra pillars. Jihad and devotion to Ali (as)
* They celebrate Christian and Zoroastrian holidays.
* They believe in reincarnation in this world. Good Alawites are reincarnated as Alawites again. Unbelievers (in Ali as God) are reincarnated as animals or if they were particularly bad, as Christians or Jews. Muslims believe in reincarnation as ourselves to answer for our deeds on this Earth, on the Day of Judgement only.
* Attending the Mosque has little importance and is mostly for Taqqiya to fool the Muslims.

and so on....

They are as much Muslims as Hindus are Christian. Why are you so stubborn as to not recognise that?

[Marcus Aurelius]

What definition of Islam do you have?

Consider this.

* They have a Trinity. Muslims don't.
* They worship Ali (as) as a deity. Muslims worship Allah alone.
* They drink alcohol. Muslims don't as it is forbidden in the Qur'aan.
* They consider the 5 Pillars of Islam (Shahada, Prayer, Charity, Fasting in Ramadan, and Hajj) to be mere symbols and there is no need to follow them. For Muslims the 5 pillars are compulsory. Alawites also have 2 extra pillars. Jihad and devotion to Ali (as)
* They celebrate Christian and Zoroastrian holidays.
* They believe in reincarnation in this world. Good Alawites are reincarnated as Alawites again. Unbelievers (in Ali as God) are reincarnated as animals or if they were particularly bad, as Christians or Jews. Muslims believe in reincarnation as ourselves to answer for our deeds on this Earth, on the Day of Judgement only.
* Attending the Mosque has little importance and is mostly for Taqqiya to fool the Muslims.

and so on....

They are as much Muslims as Hindus are Christian. Why are you so stubborn as to not recognise that?

bullshit. My ex wife's brother was the head of security for a major corporation, while in Riyadh, SA. He has Muslim contacts that could get him anything he wanted, and deliver it to their compound without fail. They were always invited in for a drink, and ALWAYS accepted.

[Drummond]

Perhaps this explains why Jafar is keen to distance Alawites from other Muslims (.. just as he's also keen to separate most other Muslims from being seen to be Muslims .. ) ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18084964

Alawite practices, which are said to include celebrating Christmas and the Zoroastrian new year, are little known even to most Muslims.

They account for 12% of Syria's population, or just under 3 million people, and yet have been in tight control of a Sunni-majority country, for more than 40 years.

After a coup in 1970, led by President Bashar al-Assad's father Hafez, Alawites consolidated power over Syria's main institutions and security apparatus.

Hafez's identity as an Alawite helped him gain the loyalty of other minority groups in Syria, to whom he promised rights and protection.

Alawites are seen by other Muslims in the Middle East as very liberal or even secular. In Syria women are not encouraged to wear hejab and many choose not to fast or pray. Some Muslims consider the Alawites a heretic sect.

The word Alawite, or Alawi means "follower of Ali", who was a cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad.

Shia Muslims also venerate Imam Ali and like the Alawis believe he was the true heir to the Prophet and should have succeeded him.

The perception that Alawis regard Ali as a deity or God in human form is what provokes disdain from some orthodox Sunni Muslims.

They regard the Alawite notion of Ali as heretical and a challenge to the fundamental belief that there is only one indisputable manifestation of God.

But some scholars argue this is a misinterpretation and Alawis actually believe Ali to be an essence or form, rather than a human being, through which followers can try to "grasp God".

In addition to the main tenets of Islam, Alawis observe two others, "jihad" or struggle and "waliya", the devotion to Imam Ali and his family.

So, there are definite differences, according to this piece. BUT, are these any more than mere interpretational differences ?

And, are we seeing, here, another manifestation of rivalry between Sunnis and Shias, BOTH OF WHICH ARE MUSLIM ??

[aboutime]

Obviously. Jafar would have us believe there are TWO KINDS of Muslim's.

The GREEN Muslim's like jafar claims to be, and the DARK GREEN Muslim's he claims Assad must be.

Logically stated, but still. NOBODY is willing to take jafar's excuse.

[jafar00]

Perhaps this explains why Jafar is keen to distance Alawites from other Muslims (.. just as he's also keen to separate most other Muslims from being seen to be Muslims .. ) ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18084964



So, there are definite differences, according to this piece. BUT, are these any more than mere interpretational differences ?

And, are we seeing, here, another manifestation of rivalry between Sunnis and Shias, BOTH OF WHICH ARE MUSLIM ??

There are no "interpretational" differences.

Take the prohibition of alcohol

They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. (2:219)

If the Alawites ignore that and go on drinking, they are ignoring a direct and clear decree in the Qur'aan which makes them unbelievers.

I'm not even going to mention the deifying of Ali who would turn in his grave at that.