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    Default Death Penalty Deters Crime

    Studies say death penalty deters crime

    Anti-death penalty forces have gained momentum in the past few years, with a moratorium in Illinois, court disputes over lethal injection in more than a half-dozen states and progress toward outright abolishment in New Jersey.

    The steady drumbeat of DNA exonerations — pointing out flaws in the justice system — has weighed against capital punishment. The moral opposition is loud, too, echoed in Europe and the rest of the industrialized world, where all but a few countries banned executions years ago.

    What gets little notice, however, is a series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument — whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes. They count between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer.

    The reports have horrified death penalty opponents and several scientists, who vigorously question the data and its implications.

    So far, the studies have had little impact on public policy. New Jersey's commission on the death penalty this year dismissed the body of knowledge on deterrence as "inconclusive."

    But the ferocious argument in academic circles could eventually spread to a wider audience, as it has in the past.

    "Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

    A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) — what am I going to do, hide them?"

    Statistical studies like his are among a dozen papers since 2001 that capital punishment has deterrent effects. They all explore the same basic theory — if the cost of something (be it the purchase of an apple or the act of killing someone) becomes too high, people will change their behavior (forego apples or shy from murder).

    To explore the question, they look at executions and homicides, by year and by state or county, trying to tease out the impact of the death penalty on homicides by accounting for other factors, such as unemployment data and per capita income, the probabilities of arrest and conviction, and more.

    Among the conclusions:

    • Each execution deters an average of 18 murders, according to a 2003 nationwide study by professors at Emory University. (Other studies have estimated the deterred murders per execution at three, five and 14).

    • The Illinois moratorium on executions in 2000 led to 150 additional homicides over four years following, according to a 2006 study by professors at the University of Houston.

    • Speeding up executions would strengthen the deterrent effect. For every 2.75 years cut from time spent on death row, one murder would be prevented, according to a 2004 study by an Emory University professor.

    In 2005, there were 16,692 cases of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter nationally. There were 60 executions.

    The studies' conclusions drew a philosophical response from a well-known liberal law professor, University of Chicago's Cass Sunstein. A critic of the death penalty, in 2005 he co-authored a paper titled "Is capital punishment morally required?"

    "If it's the case that executing murderers prevents the execution of innocents by murderers, then the moral evaluation is not simple," he told The Associated Press. "Abolitionists or others, like me, who are skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the death penalty."

    Sunstein said that moral questions aside, the data needs more study.

    do the crime...

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    it also kills innocent people in the name of the law... what about that study.
    See You In Hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by chum43 View Post
    it also kills innocent people in the name of the law... what about that study.
    How many innocent people have been executed for a murder they didn't commit?

    And also, please realize that while I am pro-death penalty, I also support a higher standard of proof for such a sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5stringJeff View Post
    How many innocent people have been executed for a murder they didn't commit?

    And also, please realize that while I am pro-death penalty, I also support a higher standard of proof for such a sentence.
    Higher standard of proof, yes..but, once that's established, nix the appeals process for those found guilty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chum43 View Post
    it also kills innocent people in the name of the law... what about that study.
    Haven't seen it have you?
    UNITED STATES ARMY AVIATION

    Above the Best

    Why the Hell should I have to press “1” for ENGLISH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5stringJeff View Post
    How many innocent people have been executed for a murder they didn't commit?

    And also, please realize that while I am pro-death penalty, I also support a higher standard of proof for such a sentence.
    I should have explained myself more, I probably sounded like one of those people that whine about murderers being killed... I'm not... I'm not sure exactly the number, but I know it's higher than zero... and for me thats enough to get rid of it... I believe very strongly in the "rather let a guilty man go free than put an innocent man behind bars" principle... to the point where if one innocent man got life in prison instead of the death penalty and murder rates quadrupled because of it, it'd be worth it.

    murder is a thing we can't get rid of, you do your best to stop it and hope what you are doing helps but I just can't imagine a government that willingly kills innocent people, it's simple probability, they know the system isn't perfect and I can deal with that if the sentence is prison, but death, that just shouldn't happen, if killing innocent people stops murderers from killing innocent people, I say too bad you can't kill innocent people, just because you're fairly sure they aren't innocent.

    higher standards of proof for such a sentence is the bear minimum and there should have to be undeniable proof in order to sentence someone to death, but I would feel alot better if they just did away with it all together, that and life with parole, I think life sentences should be a lot stricter and we should do away with the death penalty... but like I said if a thousand people get murdered because one innocent man spends life behind bars instead of being murdered by the state, it's worth it in my eyes.
    See You In Hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by chum43 View Post
    it also kills innocent people in the name of the law... what about that study.
    Does it deter crime?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chum43 View Post
    I should have explained myself more, I probably sounded like one of those people that whine about murderers being killed... I'm not... I'm not sure exactly the number, but I know it's higher than zero... and for me thats enough to get rid of it... I believe very strongly in the "rather let a guilty man go free than put an innocent man behind bars" principle... to the point where if one innocent man got life in prison instead of the death penalty and murder rates quadrupled because of it, it'd be worth it.

    murder is a thing we can't get rid of, you do your best to stop it and hope what you are doing helps but I just can't imagine a government that willingly kills innocent people, it's simple probability, they know the system isn't perfect and I can deal with that if the sentence is prison, but death, that just shouldn't happen, if killing innocent people stops murderers from killing innocent people, I say too bad you can't kill innocent people, just because you're fairly sure they aren't innocent.

    higher standards of proof for such a sentence is the bear minimum and there should have to be undeniable proof in order to sentence someone to death, but I would feel alot better if they just did away with it all together, that and life with parole, I think life sentences should be a lot stricter and we should do away with the death penalty... but like I said if a thousand people get murdered because one innocent man spends life behind bars instead of being murdered by the state, it's worth it in my eyes.
    I don't know about other states, but CA has very high standards. In fact, to argue a death row appeal you have to be certified.

    As to the innocent argument, I understand. What about the innocent people killed by the guilty? They are far greater in number than those wrongly convicted. Is it a price to pay? That is morality. When considering the greater good, again, morality. This is not a perfect system, nothing on this planet is.

    The fact remains:

    Death penalty deters crime.....................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    Does it deter crime?
    yes... but so do public hangings and lynch mobs... if you read my above post my stance is that the crime it deters doesn't matter to me when it comes to certain principles this country should be holding, one of them is not killing innocent people.
    See You In Hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by chum43 View Post
    yes... but so do public hangings and lynch mobs... if you read my above post my stance is that the crime it deters doesn't matter to me when it comes to certain principles this country should be holding, one of them is not killing innocent people.
    Do you have a system that is absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, able to that?

    I would like to hear it.

    If you don't, then you must agree, that the death penalty works overall. Innocent people die all the time, it is a shame. I am not callous, just a realist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    I don't know about other states, but CA has very high standards. In fact, to argue a death row appeal you have to be certified.

    As to the innocent argument, I understand. What about the innocent people killed by the guilty? They are far greater in number than those wrongly convicted. Is it a price to pay? That is morality. When considering the greater good, again, morality. This is not a perfect system, nothing on this planet is.

    The fact remains:

    Death penalty deters crime.....................
    I completely agree with you... I just have a different idea of what a reasonable price to pay is... I say the reasonable price to pay for deterring murder is putting numerous innocent people behind bars for life, anything more than that I say is excessive, even if it saves many many people from being killed by other citizens. To me justice isn't about making sure crime doesn't happen, It's about holding people accountable when they do commit crimes, and I would feel alot better if 1000 innocent people were killed knowing the murderers would spend their life behind bars than I would about one innocent person being killed knowing the murderers were paid for it by the government because we all were pretty sure he was guilty.

    thats just my opinion, I have to say it does make a lot more sense now that they have some sort of study saying it actually deters crime, no matter how relevant that may be, I don't know the specifics so I can't say it's exactly conclusive personally... but for me that just isn't enough to knowingly kill innocent people by court order.
    See You In Hell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    Do you have a system that is absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, able to that?

    I would like to hear it.

    If you don't, then you must agree, that the death penalty works overall. Innocent people die all the time, it is a shame. I am not callous, just a realist.
    well the system that doesn't do that is a system where we don't have the death penalty... innocent people dying by the hand of someone who will eventually pay for it is innevitable and if it goes up a little well thats unfortunate, but I still think state-sponsored murder is wrong considering the system isn't perfect and innocent people inevitably get the sentence...

    I do agree the death penalty works in deterring crime, but I think it's a problem to fix a problem, and I'd rather fix one problem and let the other get a little worse and deal with that.
    See You In Hell

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    Chum:

    Just noticed your sig:



    See You In Hell


    Hope it is not influencing your stance here....

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    chum43;75443]I completely agree with you...
    Cool. Though we seem to not meet eye to eye on "life terms." No worries.



    I just have a different idea of what a reasonable price to pay is... I say the reasonable price to pay for deterring murder is putting numerous innocent people behind bars for life, anything more than that I say is excessive,
    To many, life behind bars w/o parole is a death sentence. Of course now we enter the philosophical area of what is "life?" What does it mean? The same for you? The same for me? Death is quick and usually painless. Would you live in a toilet stall that was 12*8 for all of your life? Is that life? Again, the philosophy.


    even if it saves many many people from being killed by other citizens. To me justice isn't about making sure crime doesn't happen, It's about holding people accountable when they do commit crimes, and I would feel alot better if 1000 innocent people were killed knowing the murderers would spend their life behind bars than I would about one innocent person being killed knowing the murderers were paid for it by the government because we all were pretty sure he was guilty.
    What about police car chases? Do you support them?




    thats just my opinion, I have to say it does make a lot more sense now that they have some sort of study saying it actually deters crime, no matter how relevant that may be, I don't know the specifics so I can't say it's exactly conclusive personally... but for me that just isn't enough to knowingly kill innocent people by court order.

    To be honest, the study thing is overrated in this country. It is a well known fact around the WORLD that death penalties deter crime.

    I understand your innocent person concern. What about the innocents killed in war? Sometimes necessary? What about those killed in cop car chases? Necessary? What about those hostage situations? Necessary?

    Where and when do you draw the line?

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    Someone convicted of murder is done so because the jury believes 100% that they did do it based on the testimony and evidence. They then have years of appeal processes to go through. Many even admit to commiting the murders. Medical and technological advances today make it very unlikely any innocent person would be executed.

    A thousand innocents should die so that one may live does not equate as fair to me.

    And a bullet in the head is more than humane.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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