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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I think the bold is rather the key. Battery powered cars have range problems and also rare-earth mining/sourcing (Afghanistan/China???) problem which I think could be solved by hydrogen but the problem still remains of obtaining hydrogen; You need to expend one resource to tap that resource.
    Here is a possible solution --- Inexpensive Hydrogen Fuel From Water — Producing Hydrogen With Charcoal Powder And Lasers
    Read more at http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/31/...deECtU7Fbi0.99 Originally published on sister site Green Building Elements.

    A new, relatively inexpensive means of producing hydrogen fuel from water — relying on charcoal powder and lasers — has now been created by researchers. The new method owes its relative affordability to the cheaper materials involved — charcoal and carbon powder rather than expensive catalysts or high-power electric currents.

    As of now, though, the technique is only proven on very small scales — until the method is modified to produce larger quantities of hydrogen, applications will be limited.
    Akimoto’s team tested carbon and charcoal powders by adding them to water and beaming a laser in nanosecond pulses at the mixtures. The experiment generated hydrogen at room temperature without the need for costly catalysts or electrodes. Its success provides an alternative, inexpensive method for producing small amounts of hydrogen from water.

    The new research was just published in ACS’ Journal of Physical Chemistry C.

    The researchers acknowledge that they received funding from the Original Research Support Project of Wakayama University.



    Read more at http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/31/...deECtU7Fbi0.99
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    How do you know?
    I ask. Im in an oil producing region so perhaps it makes the supply chain a little easier to assess.
    He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    Here is a possible solution --- Inexpensive Hydrogen Fuel From Water — Producing Hydrogen With Charcoal Powder And Lasers
    Read more at http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/31/...deECtU7Fbi0.99 Originally published on sister site Green Building Elements.

    A new, relatively inexpensive means of producing hydrogen fuel from water — relying on charcoal powder and lasers — has now been created by researchers. The new method owes its relative affordability to the cheaper materials involved — charcoal and carbon powder rather than expensive catalysts or high-power electric currents.

    As of now, though, the technique is only proven on very small scales — until the method is modified to produce larger quantities of hydrogen, applications will be limited.
    Akimoto’s team tested carbon and charcoal powders by adding them to water and beaming a laser in nanosecond pulses at the mixtures. The experiment generated hydrogen at room temperature without the need for costly catalysts or electrodes. Its success provides an alternative, inexpensive method for producing small amounts of hydrogen from water.

    The new research was just published in ACS’ Journal of Physical Chemistry C.

    The researchers acknowledge that they received funding from the Original Research Support Project of Wakayama University.



    Read more at http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/31/...deECtU7Fbi0.99
    Now you're talking!

    I always wanted a car fitted with Lasers!
    اشهد ان لا اله الا الله و اشهد ان محمدا رسول الله

  4. #19
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    There are several new technologies that have a potential to change the game.
    It will be dieruptive.
    and we shouldn't be looking for something that can have Smooth tranistion iMO.
    detroit has had a smooth decline i soppose but it aint pretty.
    the oil industry and gas and coal jobs all down the line will be hurting as well.

    ONE of the new ones that's now reproducable and companies are working on rolling it out.
    Cold Fusion

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibb...nge-after-all/
    What everyone wanted was something that Rossi has been promising was about to happen for months: An independent test by third parties who were credible. This report was delayed several times to the point where many were wondering whether it was all nothing more than what we have come to see as Rossi’s usual “jam tomorrow” promises. But much to my, and I suspect many other people’s surprise, a report by credible, independent third parties is exactly what we got.
    Published on May 16, the paper titled “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device” would appear to deliver what we wanted.
    The paper was authored by Giuseppe Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén, of the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden. While some of these people have previously been public in their support of Rossi and the E-Cat they are all serious academics with reputations to lose and the paper is detailed and thorough.
    The actual test reactor, called the E-Cat HT, was described by the testers as:
    … a high temperature development of the original apparatus which has also undergone many construction changes in the last two years – is the latest product manufactured by Leonardo Corporation: it is a device allegedly capable of producing heat from some type of reaction the origin of which is unknown.
    They described the E-Cat HT as:
    … a cylinder having a silicon nitride ceramic outer shell, 33 cm in length, and 10 cm in diameter. A second cylinder made of a different ceramic material (corundum) was located within the shell, and housed three delta-connected spiral-wire resistor coils. Resistors were laid out horizontally, parallel to and equidistant from the cylinder axis, and were as long as the cylinder itself. They were fed by a TRIAC power regulator device which interrupted each phase periodically, in order to modulate power input with an industrial trade secret waveform. This procedure, needed to properly activate the E-Cat HT charge, had no bearing whatsoever on the power consumption of the device, which remained constant throughout the test. The most important element of the E-Cat HT was lodged inside the structure. It consisted of an AISI 310 steel cylinder, 3 mm thick and 33 mm in diameter, housing the powder charges. Two AISI 316 steel cone-shaped caps were hot-hammered in the cylinder, sealing it hermetically.
    Here’s a picture of the E-Cat HT during one of the tests:

    There were two test runs of the E-Cat HT (the emphasis is mine):
    The present report describes the results obtained from evaluations of the operation of the E-Cat HT in two test runs. The first test experiment, lasting 96 hours (from Dec. 13th 2012, to Dec. 17th 2012), was carried out by the two first authors of this paper, Levi and Foschi, while the second experiment, lasting for 116 hours (from March 18th 2013, to March 23rd 2013), was carried out by all authors.
    The authors also note various assumptions they made about the test and that they weren’t in control of all of the aspects of the process but they apparently didn’t consider any of these to be egregious enough to be showstoppers.
    And now, the big reveal … the authors’ conclusions are (again, the emphasis is mine):
    … if we consider the whole volume of the reactor core and the most conservative figures on energy production, we still get a value of (7.93 ± 0.8) <del>102</del> 10^2 MJ/Liter that is one order of magnitude higher than any conventional source.
    To put that in perspective, the following graph plots the peak power of various energy sources against their specific energy (energy per unit mass). As you can see, gasoline is way out in front in terms of how much energy is available and how much power can be delivered but if this paper is correct, you can make that “gasoline was way out in front” because, as can be seen, the E-Cat has roughly four orders of magnitude more specific energy and three orders of magnitude greater peak power than gasoline!
    Graph [UPDATED 05/21/13 @ 09:08] courtesy of Alan Fletcher
    Ponds and Flasmen were right.
    it's real.


    there's also a tech coming with Nano carbons that work via solar energy. in an working with low voltage


    And others..

    the question is how it can be rolled out.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    There are several new technologies that have a potential to change the game.
    It will be dieruptive.
    and we shouldn't be looking for something that can have Smooth tranistion iMO.
    detroit has had a smooth decline i soppose but it aint pretty.
    the oil industry and gas and coal jobs all down the line will be hurting as well.

    ONE of the new ones that's now reproducable and companies are working on rolling it out.
    Cold Fusion

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibb...nge-after-all/


    Ponds and Flasmen were right.
    it's real.


    there's also a tech coming with Nano carbons that work via solar energy. in an working with low voltage


    And others..

    the question is how it can be rolled out.
    While the alleged energy produced is on the order of nuclear reactions, i didn't hear of any reported detection of nuclear byproducts. Too many unknowns to conclude fusion occurred imo but exciting research nonetheless.
    He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99

  6. #21
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    Weren't the zeppelins such as the Hindenberg, supported by hydrogen? And how did that go for them?

    Or the hydrogen bomb?

    I'm not sure I'd want a fuel THAT touchy sitting anywhere near me.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    I sure hope this pans out better than the solar powered car, the electric car using batteries, etc. Imagine if we could advance past having to be held hostage to ME oil?? They know their power and influence will evaporate should America solve the oil use problem. Which is why the Arab surge and new push for the Islamic caliphate has hit high gear. They know they have to strike while they still can but our government hides this reality from us. We should be asking why and demanding answers .--Tyr
    Actually, the electric and solar cars only really failed because they were ahead of their time. Nowadays, we're seeing electric models that are starting to compete with their gas-using cousins. I believe you could begin to see some solar/electric hybrids, where they have both improved solar panels, and a plug for recharging the battery.

    However, Hydrogen fuel cell-powered cars are likely the next real step, and would completely get rid of the need for gasoline. Truthfully, due to the number of plastics in the world, the oil industry still has life left in it, it just won't be needed on the level that fuel for our vehicles is. What oil we would need for plants, oils, and whatnot, would be within our own capacity to obtain, without having to go outside the country at all.
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenKitten99 View Post
    Weren't the zeppelins such as the Hindenberg, supported by hydrogen? And how did that go for them?

    Or the hydrogen bomb?

    I'm not sure I'd want a fuel THAT touchy sitting anywhere near me.
    Well, there are differences here. For the one, with zeppelins, hydrogen was kept in a gaseous form inside the balloon, and was ignited when it wasn't supposed to be by enemy fire. The explosion was only as large as it was because of the amount hydrogen. Instead, we would have fuel cell roughly the size of a soda can up to maybe the size of a 12-pack. The Hindenberg had basically a football field of hydrogen.

    As for the A-Bomb, let's keep it in bounds: more than 96% of your body contains hydrogen, and it's in everything that you drink. It can't be THAT touchy.
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

  9. #24
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    Duplicate post deleted
    Last edited by logroller; 11-12-2013 at 04:11 AM.
    He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenKitten99 View Post
    Weren't the zeppelins such as the Hindenberg, supported by hydrogen? And how did that go for them?

    Or the hydrogen bomb?

    I'm not sure I'd want a fuel THAT touchy sitting anywhere near me.
    gasoline isnt exactly care-free handling.


    That hydrogen would most likely be in a compressed gas adds some concern, but we've had propane powered engines for a long time. A welding truck has more of an explosive risk than a hydrogen fueled car.

    So far as h-bombs, they also had lithium in them; thats the same stuff thats in your cell phone's battery. That certainly adds some credence to not using you cell phone while driving
    Last edited by logroller; 11-12-2013 at 04:09 AM.
    He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenKitten99 View Post
    Weren't the zeppelins such as the Hindenberg, supported by hydrogen? And how did that go for them?

    Or the hydrogen bomb?

    I'm not sure I'd want a fuel THAT touchy sitting anywhere near me.
    A hydrogen bomb requires an A-bomb explosion to set off the hydrogen based explosion. Hydrogen used in cars would be in a gaseous form not different that propane. Of course its explosive but so is gasoline. The explosions are what powers the vehicles. So hydrogen would be not greater threat than is the gasoline IMHO.--Tyr
    Last edited by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot; 11-12-2013 at 04:55 PM.
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    The explosions are what powers the vehicles. So hydrogen would be not greater threat than is the gasoline IMHO.--Tyr
    Actually I think hydrogen cars are fuel cell based which is a chemical reaction and not combustion based; could be wrong though. It's that the hydrogen needs to be stored in a pressurized tank which creates some concern.

    The type of fuel cell used in cars is the polymer exchange membrane (or PEM) fuel cell. PEM fuel cells have the advantage of being light and small. They consist of two electrodes (a negatively charged anode and a positively charged cathode), a catalyst and a membrane. Hydrogen is forced into the fuel cell at the anode in the form of H2 molecules, each of which contains two hydrogen atoms. A catalyst at the anode breaks the molecules into hydrogen ions (the protons) and a flow of electricity (the electrons). The ions pass through the membrane, but the electricity has to go around. While it's doing so, it can be harnessed to do work. Just as hydrogen is forced into the fuel cell at the anode, oxygen is forced in at the cathode. The protons and electrons reunite at the cathode and join with the oxygen to form water, most of which become the fuel cell's exhaust. Fuel cells are designed to be flat and thin, mainly so they can be stacked. The more fuel cells in the stack, the greater the voltage of the electricity that the stack produces.
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...ogen-cars1.htm
    Last edited by fj1200; 11-12-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Actually I think hydrogen cars are fuel cell based which is a chemical reaction and not combustion based; could be wrong though. It's that the hydrogen needs to be stored in a pressurized tank which creates some concern.


    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...ogen-cars1.htm
    http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/tech/hydrogen Hydrogen is also found in many organic compounds, notably the hydrocarbons that make up many of our fuels, such as gasoline, natural gas, methanol, and propane. Hydrogen can be separated from hydrocarbons through the application of heat - a process known as reforming. Currently, most hydrogen is made this way from natural gas. An electrical current can also be used to separate water into its components of oxygen and hydrogen. This process is known as electrolysis. Some algae and bacteria, using sunlight as their energy source, even give off hydrogen under certain conditions.

    Hydrogen is high in energy, yet an engine that burns pure hydrogen produces almost no pollution. NASA has used liquid hydrogen since the 1970s to propel the space shuttle and other rockets into orbit. Hydrogen fuel cells power the shuttle's electrical systems, producing a clean byproduct - pure water, which the crew drinks.

    A fuel cell combines hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity, heat, and water. Fuel cells are often compared to batteries. Both convert the energy produced by a chemical reaction into usable electric power. However, the fuel cell will produce electricity as long as fuel (hydrogen) is supplied, never losing its charge.

    Fuel cells are a promising technology for use as a source of heat and electricity for buildings, and as an electrical power source for electric motors propelling vehicles. Fuel cells operate best on pure hydrogen. But fuels like natural gas, methanol, or even gasoline can be reformed to produce the hydrogen required for fuel cells. Some fuel cells even can be fueled directly with methanol, without using a reformer
    . I was under the impression the hydrogen was under pressure to be liquidfied then used to produce electricity to power the vehicle.
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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