Nelson Mandela facts you won't hear from the Mainstream Press

[Little-Acorn]

- In the 1960’s, Nelson Mandela was a key leader of “MK” - the militant, Communist-backed, anti-government wing of the African National Congress (ANC).

- “MK” was classified as a terrorist organization by both the United States and South Africa.

- In 1962, Mandela met with foreign communist leaders, and received 6 months of military insurgent training in Ethiopia.

- He went on to mastermind 193 violent acts of sabotage against the South African government, including bombing power stations, govt buildings and burning crops.

- In 1964, Mandela was sentenced to life in prison for sabotage and conspiracy to overthrow the government.

- In 1985, the South African President offered to free Mandela, if he would renounce violence. Mandela refused the offer.

- After serving 27 years in prison, an international campaign lobbied for his release, which was granted in 1990.

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Nelson Mandela Quotes:

"We are not racists, as the white oppressors are."

“We felt that without violence, there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy.”

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Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ional_Congress

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...laaccount.html

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

- In the 1960’s, Nelson Mandela was a key leader of “MK” - the militant, Communist-backed, anti-government wing of the African National Congress (ANC).

- “MK” was classified as a terrorist organization by both the United States and South Africa.

- In 1962, Mandela met with foreign communist leaders, and received 6 months of military insurgent training in Ethiopia.

- He went on to mastermind 193 violent acts of sabotage against the South African government, including bombing power stations, govt buildings and burning crops.

- In 1964, Mandela was sentenced to life in prison for sabotage and conspiracy to overthrow the government.

- In 1985, the South African President offered to free Mandela, if he would renounce violence. Mandela refused the offer.

- After serving 27 years in prison, an international campaign lobbied for his release, which was granted in 1990.

---------------------------------------------------------

Nelson Mandela Quotes:

"We are not racists, as the white oppressors are."

“We felt that without violence, there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy.”

------------------------------------------------------

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ional_Congress

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...laaccount.html

Obama loved the guy that told me all I needed to know. Told me Mandela was a socialist and damn sure no angel as he has been portrayed to be for consumption FOR GULLIBLE AND IGNORANT EASILY MISLED AMERICANS!--Tyr

[fj1200]

- In the 1960’s...

You would have him do what against racial oppression?

[Drummond]

Obama loved the guy that told me all I needed to know. Told me Mandela was a socialist and damn sure no angel as he has been portrayed to be for consumption FOR GULLIBLE AND IGNORANT EASILY MISLED AMERICANS!--Tyr

Mandela wasn't just a Socialist, but particularly hardline as one. He visited the UK a number of times, and once declared our LABOUR PARTY to be .. 'God's own people'.

I'm not saying Mandela didn't do good in his life, or that he lacked principle (to a degree, anyway). BUT ... Mandela was FAR from being any sort of saint.

Here's a bit of balance to add to the mix ...

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things...elson-mandela/

Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights -

-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983

-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985

-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988

-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986

-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead

-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987

-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988

Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

[tailfins]

You would have him do what against racial oppression?

So you condone necklacing?

[fj1200]

So you condone necklacing?

I think my nine-word question sufficiently lays out my position on the subject.

[Drummond]

You would have him do what against racial oppression?

A suggestion: murdering innocent men, women and children is NOT a method of fighting racial oppression that lends itself to a principled defence.

Let me guess, FJ. You're back to a 'Let's defend terrorists' theme, once more ?

Oh, and in your guise as a supposed 'Thatcherite' .. ... this might interest you ...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/de...elson-mandela/

Margaret Thatcher denounced the ANC as a “typical terrorist organization,” and one of her strongest supporters, Teddy Taylor, said Nelson Mandela “should be shot.”

[fj1200]

A suggestion: murdering innocent men, women and children is NOT a method of fighting racial oppression that lends itself to a principled defence.

That's not an answer to the question.

Let me guess, FJ. You're back to a 'Let's defend terrorists' theme, once more ?

Oh, and in your guise as a supposed 'Thatcherite' .. ... this might interest you ...

Don't be an idiot... sorry, too late. Please try and stay on topic for once.

[Drummond]

That's not an answer to the question.

Direct answer or not, my comment stands as it is.

Or ... do you APPROVE of what Mandela's Commie gang got up to ?

Consider my previous comment about your defending terrorists re-made ... because I fail to see how you're doing otherwise.

Don't be an idiot... sorry, too late. Please try and stay on topic for once.

Back to the pathetic crossings-out yet again, I see. They add nothing to any process of honest debate.

[fj1200]

Direct answer or not, my comment stands as it is.

Or ... do you APPROVE of what Mandela's Commie gang got up to ?

Consider my previous comment about your defending terrorists re-made ... because I fail to see how you're doing otherwise.

I don't care about your comment as it doesn't answer the question.

Back to the pathetic crossings-out yet again, I see. They add nothing to any process of honest debate.

Man you're delusional. What process of honest debate was present here?

Let me guess, FJ. You're back to a 'Let's defend terrorists' theme, once more ?

Oh, and in your guise as a supposed 'Thatcherite' .. ... this might interest you ...

[Drummond]

I don't care about your comment as it doesn't answer the question.

Correction: you'd rather dismiss my comment, because you find it inconvenient to address it. I understand.

Man you're delusional. What process of honest debate was present here?

See above ....

[Gaffer]

You would have him do what against racial oppression?

Oh just about anything besides killing innocent people and planting bombs. He wasn't sent to prison for political reasons he was sentenced for murder and armed insurrection. He was no Gandhi.

As far as apartheid goes it was the same in South Africa in the 60's as it was in the 80's. If your looking to compare SA and the US those are apples and oranges.

[fj1200]

Correction: you'd rather dismiss my comment, because you find it inconvenient to address it. I understand.

See above ....

Well, directly above your last comment (in bold) was my statement that you are in fact delusional so I can conclude your agreement on the matter.

Moving on, your comment is only indicative that you're unable to move beyond your delusions and your crutches. To give you some much needed assistance on the matter let's lay out what everyone agrees on; socialists are bad mmkay, terrorism is bad mmkay, targeting civilians is bad mmkay, etc. etc. So, now, you would have him do what against racial oppression?

[fj1200]

Oh just about anything besides killing innocent people and planting bombs. He wasn't sent to prison for political reasons he was sentenced for murder and armed insurrection. He was no Gandhi.

As far as apartheid goes it was the same in South Africa in the 60's as it was in the 80's. If your looking to compare SA and the US those are apples and oranges.

Great, an answer, thank you. Do you think that would have been sufficient? If it was the same in the 60's and 80's then it doesn't suggest that they made much headway.

And no, not sure why I would compare SA and the US. But I think a more apt comparison might be Israel and Gaza but I wouldn't say that the Israeli's desire to oppress the Palestinians like what was done against the blacks in SA.

[revelarts]

and should we say that the south african gov't treated the afriacans like angels?

2 wrongs don't make a right .
But i just find it odd that when mlk day comes around .. who never killed anyone and was not a communist.... on a few occasions people have found "what the mainstream won't tell you about MLK" as well.
But rarely are the abuses that SPAWNED the protest mentioned.

Soo what's the motivation for wanting to point out ONLY the flaws of a man that just died?

At George Washington's death would it be appropriate to point out that Washington pulled out the teeth of healthy slaves to make dentures for his on mouth. or other shady thing things he did during the Indian wars or revolution.
and go down swinging in verbal debate, never giving any credit for the good he's done?

I mean there a time for such things sure but. the fact is the gov't he was figting against was a hard core racist regime. he fought against it in some not so honorable was. I agree 100%.
but many of you here have not shed a tear for "colateral damage" of terrorist strike. and have proposed preemptive strikes on Iranian cities and the like where 1000's of innocents, women and children would be killed.

so I'm not sure about the concern or moral high ground some of you are claiming when the man fighting for his country.

if he'd been in Nicaraga during the 80's overthrowing the gov't he'd be called a "freedom fighter".

but hey , don't let me spoil the party , let the 10 minute hate go on for the dead African who help make a peaceful transition to more universal rule in his country.

whatever..