Gaza started shooting rockets on Israel cities again

[Drummond]

Maybe they were trying to kill guilty Israelis.

But first, they'd have to find some. Or even convincingly quantify how it is that Israel's desire to live in peace and security, when they have a known terrorist group/'Government' ranged against them, rockets ditto, qualifies them for 'guilt'.

[Voted4Reagan]

EXACTLY. And I've already posted, elsewhere, that Dresden was bombed because of its military and strategic importance.

and in case anyone is not aware...

Dresden was a Night Target of the RAF. They caused the Firestorms.

USAAF Bombed during DAYLIGHT HOURS.

RAF/RCAAF units bombed at NIGHT.

Russians did not participate in Strategic bombing and needed USAAF/RAF Units to bomb for them where they attacked.

Soviet Air Forces were Ground Attack (IL-2 Sturmavick) and smaller Bombers like the

Petlyakov PE-2

IL-2 Sturmavick (TOP), Petlyakov PE-2 (Bottom)

[aboutime]

If they did this in response to NOTHING (which we all know they did), then it's obvious that they have no care for peace at all, kind of like what Hamas charter states. No negotiating, no peace. All they want is what they stated - jew blood.

The so-called Palestinians, under the control of Hamas...have NO DESIRE for Peace...at any Cost.

Their combined, sole intention is to KILL Israel's Men, Women, and Children..and any visitors who help the Jewish nation survive.

Everyone around the world knows what the TRUTH is. But we will always have the DENIAL bunch like jafar...who most prolong, and proliferate their hatred AT ANY COST.

[Drummond]

Jafar needs to finally decide whether he is pro or anti terrorist, and stick to one position or the other, with total consistency.

Support for Hamas, and for the actions Hamas takes, IF this continues, is a position utterly incompatible with being 'anti' terrorist.

We surely all know that.

[logroller]

Dresden was a Major Rail and Land Transportation hub. several Rail lines merged there andposed a threat to advancing Russian Troops under Field Marshall Koniev who was just 70miles west of Dresden when the Bombings commenced.

Indeed it was, but the rail yard (nor the airstrip, itself a legit target) were initially targets. The war was all but over. the Dresden campaign was conspicuously just two days after the yalta conference where the allies met to discuss postwar occupation by constituent allies. The Russians were closing in rapidly, and tens of thousands of civilian refugees were fleeing the cruelties of the red army whose land frces greatly outnumbered the west. What the western allies did have was superior airpower and the Dresden campaign assuredly demonstrated this to Stalin and Dresden would fall under western control. A rather cruel way to stake a claim, but so is bulldozing a Palestine neighborhood (in occupied territory, against international law) because they don't have the requisite permits.
While the pretexts are different, Israel certainly possesses legitimate targets as well and the ethical implication of indiscriminant attacks against a foe is subject to the same scrutiny IMO. But more often is the case that those with the greater power decide not just the rules but who violated them. Naturally, the more powerful are almost always deemed justified--that's the reality, though hardly is this the truth.

[jafar00]

You mean the one in 1948 where all the arab nations got together and rolled into Israel with tanks and infantry, and got there ass-u-me handed to them?

No, I mean the Zionist invasion before that preceded by brutal jewish terrorism that resulted in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians being summarily ejected from their homes and their homeland at gunpoint.

[jimnyc]

No, I mean the Zionist invasion before that preceded by brutal jewish terrorism that resulted in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians being summarily ejected from their homes and their homeland at gunpoint.

Please forgive me once again, as I'm only quoting a fine chap here:

You would think the war was over. You guys lost. Get over it!

[Drummond]

No, I mean the Zionist invasion before that preceded by brutal jewish terrorism that resulted in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians being summarily ejected from their homes and their homeland at gunpoint.

The State of Palestine existed, then, Jafar ? Yes ?

What, precisely, did the 'Zionists' 'invade' ?

And back in 1948, did the UN sanction 'invasion' .. ?

[logroller]

But first, they'd have to find some. Or even convincingly quantify how it is that Israel's desire to live in peace and security, when they have a known terrorist group/'Government' ranged against them, rockets ditto, qualifies them for 'guilt'.

Those Israelites that bulldozed Palestinians' homes qualifies them as guilty.

[aboutime]

Those Israelites that bulldozed Palestinians' homes qualifies them as guilty.

log. Your hypocrisy is showing. Like jafar, when you use the word Israelites...how can that be? If you, jafar, and the slimy palestinians DENY Israel exists?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Indeed it was, but the rail yard (nor the airstrip, itself a legit target) were initially targets. The war was all but over. the Dresden campaign was conspicuously just two days after the yalta conference where the allies met to discuss postwar occupation by constituent allies. The Russians were closing in rapidly, and tens of thousands of civilian refugees were fleeing the cruelties of the red army whose land frces greatly outnumbered the west. What the western allies did have was superior airpower and the Dresden campaign assuredly demonstrated this to Stalin and Dresden would fall under western control. A rather cruel way to stake a claim, but so is bulldozing a Palestine neighborhood (in occupied territory, against international law) because they don't have the requisite permits.
While the pretexts are different, Israel certainly possesses legitimate targets as well and the ethical implication of indiscriminant attacks against a foe is subject to the same scrutiny IMO. But more often is the case that those with the greater power decide not just the rules but who violated them. Naturally, the more powerful are almost always deemed justified--that's the reality, though hardly is this the truth.

Indeed it was, but the rail yard (nor the airstrip, itself a legit target) were initially targets. The war was all but over. the Dresden campaign was conspicuously just two days after the yalta conference where the allies met to discuss postwar occupation by constituent allies.

Are you advocating the factories , rail yards and military targets there were dormant or that Germany had surrendered ? Because if you are not advocating either of those two then you must be calling for a kinder gentler war while speculating that those bombings did not save American soldiers 's lives. Clarify if you please. -Tyr

[Drummond]

log. Your hypocrisy is showing. Like jafar, when you use the word Israelites...how can that be? If you, jafar, and the slimy palestinians DENY Israel exists?

Excellent point !

[logroller]

log. Your hypocrisy is showing. Like jafar, when you use the word Israelites...how can that be? If you, jafar, and the slimy palestinians DENY Israel exists?

Blame autocorrect 7.0. Substitute Israelis if you please. Ne'er denied Israel's existence or its right to.

[logroller]

Are you advocating the factories , rail yards and military targets there were dormant or that Germany had surrendered ? Because if you are not advocating either of those two then you must be calling for a kinder gentler war while speculating that those bombings did not save American soldiers 's lives. Clarify if you please. -Tyr

lol. Advocating? I'm talking about the facts--the German army, Luftwaffe and war machine was a skeleton and well on their heels. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for ruthless and devastating attacks against a sworn enemy to bring about their capitulation but I don't put on pretenses of it being any more righteous than when an enemy does.


Speculation? The estimates on the number of lives saved by those bombings is speculation; whereas the tens of thousands of civilians killed in the operation is FACT. At that point the majority of Germany's defenses were positioned to the northeast against Russia; indeed allied losses in the Dresden campaign were less than 1%, and only after complete success in their first run did they even target areas of military significance like railyards-- thus the scorched earth policy was the primary intent and, given the timing after Yalta, it was more a function of political rather than military necessity. Again though, I am not seeking to demonize these actions; its an act of war, and war is a terrible thing-- I just don't think it any more morally egregious when another does it either.

[jafar00]

The State of Palestine existed, then, Jafar ? Yes ?

What, precisely, did the 'Zionists' 'invade' ?

And back in 1948, did the UN sanction 'invasion' .. ?

Yes, Palestine did exist. Have a look at a few maps made a century ago or so and you will find it.

log. Your hypocrisy is showing. Like jafar, when you use the word Israelites...how can that be? If you, jafar, and the slimy palestinians DENY Israel exists?

Yet you deny the right of the Palestinians to exist and to live in their own homes. Don't call hypocrisy on me.