Trying to get a debate going No 1

[Tricky Dicky]

I'm afraid what I have to say initially really concerns the UK. So for any stray Brits here goes.

The whole idea of Welsh independence (they won't let me on their Forums) is, as it stands, a no go situation. Get a map and you can follow my argument. The major concentation of people, due to the industrial revolution, is concentrated in the south where the capital Cardiff is. Now look how this English speaking area is tied into English culture and English industrial dominace by the M4 Motor way. There are no motor ways to the rest of Wales. In addition the only other concentration of people is in the Noth again tied into England. The only good road connections between these regions are through England! This is in contrast to Scotland where the Central Belt is quite seperate from England
Now supose that the Capital, New Industries , Administration, Cultural Centre and Parliament were concentrated at Aberystwyth. Here a new true Welsh heartland could be established seperated from England by the Cambrian Mountains. If in addition Motorways are built to connect with Swansea in the South and Bangor in the North an Axis of Communication could be created.

[tailfins]

Welcome to DP. I wish I could give you an intelligent reply, but I've never even been to the Eastern Hemisphere. Anything beyond North and South America is outside of my experience. We do have someone from the UK with a user ID of Drummond, though.

[jimnyc]

Are you literally looking to debate someone "one on one" or to just discuss those topics? This section you posted in is for one on one debates (or the discussion related to them). You may want to post in current events or politics?

[Abbey Marie]

Welcome, TD. I hope that Drummond sees this, I am sure he will be able to debate you on the topic.

ETA: I PM'ed Drummond

[Drummond]

I'm afraid what I have to say initially really concerns the UK. So for any stray Brits here goes.

The whole idea of Welsh independence (they won't let me on their Forums) is, as it stands, a no go situation. Get a map and you can follow my argument. The major concentation of people, due to the industrial revolution, is concentrated in the south where the capital Cardiff is. Now look how this English speaking area is tied into English culture and English industrial dominace by the M4 Motor way. There are no motor ways to the rest of Wales. In addition the only other concentration of people is in the Noth again tied into England. The only good road connections between these regions are through England! This is in contrast to Scotland where the Central Belt is quite seperate from England
Now supose that the Capital, New Industries , Administration, Cultural Centre and Parliament were concentrated at Aberystwyth. Here a new true Welsh heartland could be established seperated from England by the Cambrian Mountains. If in addition Motorways are built to connect with Swansea in the South and Bangor in the North an Axis of Communication could be created.

... Not sure that I qualify as a 'stray' Brit, though I am definitely British (English, now living in Wales).

You know, I think you make a good argument, now that I think of it. I'd thought rather less about the motorway situation, and rather more about the far weaker take-up (and interest surrounding it) of local powers devolving to greater control in the Welsh Assembly. Plaid Cymru may exist, and may be active, but compared to the far stronger impetus for independence for Scotland, theirs is a weak effort.

But you're correct about the dominance of the M4 (not counting the mini-stretches of the M48 and A48). I see your point. Geography no doubt influences this, in that Wales has a lot more hills than the flatter English countryside, especially in the South East. But .. if the will existed, it could be got around ...

All that said, I don't think it much matters if Cardiff is where Wales is set up to 'govern itself', or Aberystwyth, or anywhere else in Wales. But a better road infrastructure, less dominated by the one major motorway in the South .. I agree with you. Fair point.

[Tricky Dicky]

... Not sure that I qualify as a 'stray' Brit, though I am definitely British (English, now living in Wales).

You know, I think you make a good argument, now that I think of it. I'd thought rather less about the motorway situation, and rather more about the far weaker take-up (and interest surrounding it) of local powers devolving to greater control in the Welsh Assembly. Plaid Cymru may exist, and may be active, but compared to the far stronger impetus for independence for Scotland, theirs is a weak effort.

But you're correct about the dominance of the M4 (not counting the mini-stretches of the M48 and A48). I see your point. Geography no doubt influences this, in that Wales has a lot more hills than the flatter English countryside, especially in the South East. But .. if the will existed, it could be got around ...

All that said, I don't think it much matters if Cardiff is where Wales is set up to 'govern itself', or Aberystwyth, or anywhere else in Wales. But a better road infrastructure, less dominated by the one major motorway in the South .. I agree with you. Fair point.

You have to grap the importance a heartland preferably with a capital - think Ile de France and Paris. And language, even if it's only a dialect, it is so important for Ethnic Identity - think Irish who have lost their Irish dialect and speak SE English - everyone laughs when they say they are Irish! By the way are you going to learn Welsh and if the Union splits will you be British or English?

[Drummond]

You have to grap the importance a heartland preferably with a capital - think Ile de France and Paris. And language, even if it's only a dialect, it is so important for Ethnic Identity - think Irish who have lost their Irish dialect and speak SE English - everyone laughs when they say they are Irish! By the way are you going to learn Welsh and if the Union splits will you be British or English?

I can't think of many Irish who've lost their Irish dialect in favour of SE English, to be honest. Although I'd agree with you that the nearer you get in Wales to the English border, the less Welsh the people generally sound (.. and as you doubtless know, the percentage who even KNOW Welsh, much less speak it, also declines dramatically).

On your second to last point -- I've already taken Welsh lessons (.. though I'm only a beginner) .. Shwmae ! It's a hard language to learn, though .. and ancient.

On the last point - if the Union 'splits', I'll doubtlessly be both. I find it inconceivable that the UK will completely disappear. Even if Scotland goes independent, I can't see it happening comparably with Wales. But if there was a total breakup, obviously I'd be English. I could hardly be otherwise.

[Tricky Dicky]

I can't think of many Irish who've lost their Irish dialect in favour of SE English, to be honest. Although I'd agree with you that the nearer you get in Wales to the English border, the less Welsh the people generally sound (.. and as you doubtless know, the percentage who even KNOW Welsh, much less speak it, also declines dramatically).

On your second to last point -- I've already taken Welsh lessons (.. though I'm only a beginner) .. Shwmae ! It's a hard language to learn, though .. and ancient.

On the last point - if the Union 'splits', I'll doubtlessly be both. I find it inconceivable that the UK will completely disappear. Even if Scotland goes independent, I can't see it happening comparably with Wales. But if there was a total breakup, obviously I'd be English. I could hardly be otherwise.

How about Saxon? Problems with Welsh: like all Celtic languages it mutates, and like Gaelic, as a suppressed language, it's present pronuciation ( in the various regions ) is at odds with its spelling