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    Default The contempt shown to parents of large families

    A Great Article!

    The contempt shown to parents of large families



    A funny thing happened to me the other day when my wife and I had, thank God, another baby (a boy). Many of my friends didn't seem all that happy for me. Sure, they went through the motions of smiles and congratulations. But it was evident that many thought me insane. Why would a young man and his wife ruin their lives with eight children? Who could afford the Jewish day-school bills? Didn't we want to live life a little, and not just be burdened with kids?

    It got downright surreal when a European film company, pressed me, while my wife was in labor, to finish shooting a segment that had an urgent deadline (I obviously told them they were insane). And the next day, I was mildly criticized by a Jewish organization which was supposed to be hosting me for a lecture for having to cancel on them because the lecture clashed with the baby's bris.

    I don't mind that the world doesn't really love babies, just that it pretends to. It's time we got honest about our priorities. Most people get a new car every two or three years, but one or two babies through the life of their marriage is plenty. You can get drunk on an airplane, laugh hysterically with your mates, and still not really anger people. But if you dare bring a crying baby on board you will be given malicious looks as if the little thing is a package that ticks. If you walk your dog along the street, people will stop you to tell you how cute he is. If you walk down the street with a baby, you might find a woman or two who coos, but for the most part, you'll be utterly ignored.

    Indeed, the contempt shown to parents of many children is the last acceptable prejudice in our society. As a father of a large family, I find myself apologizing wherever I go, as if I committed a crime. The frequent and loaded stares from scornful onlookers imply that the famine in Africa was caused by my selfish insistence on overpopulating the earth. Long ago my wife and I discovered that few hotels were prepared to accommodate so many children, even if we took three of four rooms, which is why we bought an RV for travel.

    How strange to live in a world where loving children casts one in infamy. Having a family with many children implies a backwardness and primitivism that is deemed unbecoming in the developed countries of the West. Large families, it is thought, exist only among religious weirdoes or the teeming hovels of the Third World.

    Rich countries, by contrast, prefer to increase their standard of living rather than the number of the living. Looking at Western birth rates for the year 2001, the United States averaged only 14.2 births for every thousand Americans, and the birthrate among white Americans is so low that the United States will soon lose its white majority. Indeed, one can go for days in a wealthy city like Manhattan without encountering a single pregnant woman. Riches and children have become inversely proportional such that the more of the former, the less of the latter.

    Hence, the high birth rates of extremely poor African nations like Uganda – at 47.52 births per 1,000 – or Niger with 50.68 births per 1,000, are deemed to be prime causes and indicators of their penury. The abundant fertility and unconstrained sexuality of these countries confirms the unspoken Western mindset of these country's inhabitants as being just one step above savages. Contraception has become a synonym for civilization.

    A Christian mother of six once wrote to me, "I find it troubling to worry about getting pregnant again ... because I don't want to face the criticism of friends and family. Why do people not see children as a blessing?" A fair question which deserves a fair response.

    Why is it that even many snagogues today are not children friendly? Why are people impressed that Jay Leno owns 20 motorcycles, but disgusted that some religious families choose to have 10 children?

    Let's not finesse the response. We all know why. A world that has lost its innocence has trouble appreciating beings who are innocent. A world that has become selfish has soured to the idea of leading a life of selflessness. A world that has become grossly materialistic is turned off to the idea of more dependents who consume resources. And a world that mistakenly believes that freedom means a lack of responsibility is opposed to the idea of needy creatures who "tie you down."

    They can go fly a kite.

    By just looking at my children, I become more innocent. By loving them, I become more noble. By spending my money on them rather than myself, I find transcendence. And by being a father and liberating all of the love in my heart, my spirit soars free. I work hard to support a large family and I give up no pleasures in doing so because my children are my foremost pleasure.


    I am often asked by women dating men how to tell whether they are marriage material. I tell them, "See if he enjoys children." A man who loves children is playful. He will spend his life joking with his wife because he loves to see her laugh, and will flirt with her because he loves to see her smile.

    There was a time when husbands and wives worked hard to ensure they could afford the blessings of a large family. Today, the higher your earning bracket the fewer children you have, but then we always knew that many turn money from a blessing into a curse.

    Before he died, the Lubavitcher Rebbe launched a campaign asking parents to have one more child than they originally planned. It is a campaign that a dwindling Jewish community should revive as it continues to disappear.

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49074

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    Let's get this out of the way:

    "JUNK psychology by a FAKE expert! I bet his KIDS are ALL fake, or at least from some no-name hospital!!"
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Let's get this out of the way:

    "JUNK psychology by a FAKE expert! I bet his KIDS are ALL fake, or at least from some no-name hospital!!"
    LOL! That's an awesome impression of the ninnies who post in the threads about Creation vs. Man's ideas...

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Cp View Post
    LOL! That's an awesome impression of the ninnies who post in the threads about Creation vs. Man's ideas...
    And your constant derision of anyone who doesn't share your views is always apparent.

    But yeah... we should love junk science, right? You should be able to muddy the waters and pretend there's some scientific basis for your beliefs when it is only your "faith" that supports?

    Why do you need everyone to believe the same thing as you and give you a pass on scientific method because your reading of the bible tells you to?

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    I had a close family member say to me, when I told this person I was pregnant with my fourth, "Well... better not make it FIVE."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nienna View Post
    I had a close family member say to me, when I told this person I was pregnant with my fourth, "Well... better not make it FIVE."
    GO FOR IT! 5 Would be cool - then you can go for six to break the tie we'd be in at #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Cp View Post
    GO FOR IT! 5 Would be cool - then you can go for six to break the tie we'd be in at #5
    A woman told me once that she thought I would have six kids, but seems like we're stopping with four. If God gives us more, we will love them, though. And luckily, my husband is pretty supportive about my staying home with them... And HE is even involved with them, too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    And your constant derision of anyone who doesn't share your views is always apparent.

    But yeah... we should love junk science, right? You should be able to muddy the waters and pretend there's some scientific basis for your beliefs when it is only your "faith" that supports?

    Why do you need everyone to believe the same thing as you and give you a pass on scientific method because your reading of the bible tells you to?
    Jillian - My reply was funny. No need to preach in this thread. Just laugh at yourself. Geesh.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nienna View Post
    And HE is even involved with them, too!
    That's nice, of course, but why wouldn't he be involved with them? They're his kids, too, yes?

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    The number of kids a family choses to have is really up to them and whether they can afford a lot of kids. Now days economics determines a lot of peoples choice to have large families. Housing, food costs and quality of living are an important factor.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
    The number of kids a family choses to have is really up to them and whether they can afford a lot of kids. Now days economics determines a lot of peoples choice to have large families. Housing, food costs and quality of living are an important factor.
    Anyone CAN afford any amount of kids they have... The family on the TLC show was a great example.. they have their own garden and have trained their kids how to hunt deer... they only have to spend about $100 / week at a grocery store...

    The problem is, however, that many parents are more worried about the area they live in and the cars they drive rather than MOVE to a more affordable place and drive a used car....

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Cp View Post
    Anyone CAN afford any amount of kids they have... The family on the TLC show was a great example.. they have their own garden and have trained their kids how to hunt deer... they only have to spend about $100 / week at a grocery store...

    The problem is, however, that many parents are more worried about the area they live in and the cars they drive rather than MOVE to a more affordable place and drive a used car....
    Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

    People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.

    I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.

    Ultimately, I agree with Gaffer, though. I think a lot of it depends on what you can afford. You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

    People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.

    How is it presumptuous? I mean why point that out?

    "Many" is a very loose term...which allows for exceptions. A body would have to be daft to disagree that 'many' folk are too concerned with financial status to have more kids. They lie to themselves and say stuff like "Well, first we have to get financially secure!" as they drive away in their $40,000 car.

    If you had TWO Children, Jillian, your love and attention would MULTIPLY...not DIVIDE.

    I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.
    Well - that may be one of your shortfalls, but it's wrong to project that opinion on that family. I give the parents the benefit of the doubt here. I bet their respective relationships with their kids are closer than many parents with only 1 or 2 kids.

    You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.
    Pretty self-centered, if you ask me. So what you don't have an interest in gardening...people often get used to new things REAL quick when they have to.

    I once knew a guy who refused a few bags of groceries because they weren't the brand-name groceries...generic and off-brand products. He learned after awhile to drop his f'ing PRIDE and accept stuff to help his family.

    The point is, We live in a SELFISH society. Most of us suffer from a degree of selfishness. The more selfish we get the more we dont-want kids for the WRONG reasons.

    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.

    People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.

    I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.

    Ultimately, I agree with Gaffer, though. I think a lot of it depends on what you can afford. You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.
    Clearly, you don't think children are a blessing, you heartless bitch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    Presumptuous of you. You act as if there's something wrong with having a smaller family and live in an urban area. Some of us like both our small families and our city lives.
    Outside of the fact that pattern will ultimately lead to a population decline -- I never said there's anything wrong - I said it's primarily driven out of selfishness.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    People get to choose for themselves the type of life they want. It doesn't have to be the same for each of us. And, just for the record, I CHOSE to have one child because I can give him all of the attention, education and mothering that he deserves.
    Hurray - another spoild-rotten kid - just what society needs... Most couple who only decide to have one kid do so out of fear that having more will tap into thier lives and how dare they be forced to live a life of giving to their kids rather than to themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    I can't imagine how one can have a relationship with each of 12 children. Nor would I make my older children responsible for the younger ones. I think children shouldn't be burdened by their parents choices.
    A great reason as to why you should do society a favor and not procreate anymore kids...

    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    Ultimately, I agree with Gaffer, though. I think a lot of it depends on what you can afford. You say food can cost $100 a week if you garden and kill deer. One, I'd never eat deer meat; Two, some of us don't have any interest in gardening for our food.
    1. You'd learn to love it - or raise your own cows.
    2. You'd learn to have an interest in the interest of taking care of your kids and feeding them properly.

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