Taliban trade U.S. Soldier for 5 in Gitmo

[NightTrain]

I was unaware that they had an American POW. Hopefully we already waterboarded all the intel out of the 5 being released from Gitmo.

A US soldier who has been held by the Taliban in Afghanistan for nearly five years has been freed in deal that includes the release of five Afghan detainees, US officials say.

US Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, 28, was handed over to US forces in good health, the officials said.
The five Afghan detainees have been released from the US prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
They were handed over to Qatar, which mediated the transfer.
Sgt Bergdahl was the only US soldier being held by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27651690

[Drummond]

I was unaware that they had an American POW. Hopefully we already waterboarded all the intel out of the 5 being released from Gitmo.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27651690[/FONT][/COLOR]

I'm glad that the US serviceman was freed. Rather less 'glad' that the Taliban have gained from it, though.

It's 'interesting', isn't it. There are those on the Left who'll carp on about how unjust the very fact of the detention centre in Gitmo is. That those incarcerated are unfairly kept there, that unless they're tried in a court of law, they must be presumed 'innocent'.

Yes, well, in that case, the Taliban have acted purely out of humanitarian motives, because they're such 'great people' .. eh ???

So, come on ! Isn't there one Leftie out there who'll applaud what the Taliban have accomplished in freeing those Afghanis ??

[DragonStryk72]

I'm glad that the US serviceman was freed. Rather less 'glad' that the Taliban have gained from it, though.

It's 'interesting', isn't it. There are those on the Left who'll carp on about how unjust the very fact of the detention centre in Gitmo is. That those incarcerated are unfairly kept there, that unless they're tried in a court of law, they must be presumed 'innocent'.

Yes, well, in that case, the Taliban have acted purely out of humanitarian motives, because they're such 'great people' .. eh ???

So, come on ! Isn't there one Leftie out there who'll applaud what the Taliban have accomplished in freeing those Afghanis ??

Innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our justice system. After all, otherwise, I can just say you're a terrorist, and demand that you prove you're not. Oh, and btw, that will mean denouncing your extremist views of Margaret Thatcher. Since you cannot prove a negative, and I can pick out what I believe to be extremist views of your in relation to Ms. Thatcher, I win. Oh yeah, and you're not allowed to refute me, call anyone in to defend you, or even see the inside of a court. So, you're a terrorist, right?

Of course not, and no rational person would think otherwise. It would make my argument look insanely weak, and of course, a person has a right to defend themselves against accusations. That's an inherent right, meaning that is the right of everyone, not just american citizens.

Most of these prisoners were picked up while firing at us, it would not have been hard to prove that they were enemy soldiers trying to harm us, and hold them by above-board legal means until their execution. So why didn't we? Because we wanted to use torture to get answers out of people, and so we had to dehumanize them somehow. Nevermind that most of the methods used ensure that we're going to get a ton of lies and misinformation that keep us looking in the wrong places, we got lucky once or twice, so it works.

Oh, and Obama couldn't have "illegally" released anyone from Gitmo. We ensured that when we took them into custody in a manner that would've been bounced out of even military courts, and thus, the only legal thing to do is release them. As we have been detaining them in a manner that violates our own laws, morals, and basic human rights we say we believe in. Moral strength and integrity can only be shown when they are tested, and as long as we continue to surrender to abject hatred, we are losing that test.

Now, again, no issue for us to just execute them through the legal system. Most of these guys were known for what they did, and we had evidence to such point. So basically, we had every ability to get rid of these menaces permanently, but we fucked it up in the name of petty vengeance, and now we've been put into the position of them as bargaining chips.

[Drummond]

Innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our justice system. After all, otherwise, I can just say you're a terrorist, and demand that you prove you're not. Oh, and btw, that will mean denouncing your extremist views of Margaret Thatcher. Since you cannot prove a negative, and I can pick out what I believe to be extremist views of your in relation to Ms. Thatcher, I win. Oh yeah, and you're not allowed to refute me, call anyone in to defend you, or even see the inside of a court. So, you're a terrorist, right?

????????????????

Margaret Thatcher had no extremist views at all, so far as I'm aware. If you think you can find any, be my guest.

In fact, what characterised her in large measure was her devotion to doing what it took to neutralise extremism !

I note and respect your point about 'innocent until proven guilty'. It is a very worthy principle. However .. there is a flaw in the way you apply it. DragonStryk, I don't doubt that you won't like this one bit .. but really, it DOES have to be said: human laws, human standards of justice, are for human beings. And terrorists FAIL TO QUALIFY.

This is one very good reason why I've not the slightest qualms about the existence of Gitmo (I wish there were more of them), nor, what's alleged to go on there (superb medical facilities notwithstanding, of course ..).

Of course not, and no rational person would think otherwise. It would make my argument look insanely weak, and of course, a person has a right to defend themselves against accusations. That's an inherent right, meaning that is the right of everyone, not just american citizens.

Yes. As applied to human beings. Agreed.

Most of these prisoners were picked up while firing at us, it would not have been hard to prove that they were enemy soldiers trying to harm us, and hold them by above-board legal means until their execution. So why didn't we? Because we wanted to use torture to get answers out of people ...

So, you're saying that American authorities were trying to indulge some sort of crazed, inhuman whim ? 'WE WANTED TO USE TORTURE TO GET ANSWERS OUT OF PEOPLE' ... YOUR words ... sounds like off-the-chart Leftie demonising to me.

So explain why they'd WANT to use torture, especially as, since, according to you, the results of it would lead to dodgy information ?? Come on, DragonStryk ... I want to hear from you your theories as to why torture was such a 'wanted' activity, why there was such keenness in employing it.

By the way, that point made ... I simply don't care whether terrorists were tortured or not. I see no reason to suppose they didn't deserve it.

.. and so we had to dehumanize them somehow.

Ridiculous. They were already 'dehumanised' .. if they were ever human in the first place !! .. as proven by their being terrorists !!

Nevermind that most of the methods used ensure that we're going to get a ton of lies and misinformation that keep us looking in the wrong places, we got lucky once or twice, so it works.

I don't accept that torture produces the extent of unreliability you claim. But, never mind .. let's say you happen to be right on that. Well .. YOU have said the interrogators 'got lucky once or twice'. If so .. in 'getting lucky' ... did they manage to save innocent lives ??

DOESN'T THAT MAKE IT WORTH THE EFFORT ?? Or, if not in your view, please tell us your estimate of 'acceptable' needless casualties caused by NOT using every possible method of information extraction !!

Oh, and Obama couldn't have "illegally" released anyone from Gitmo. We ensured that when we took them into custody in a manner that would've been bounced out of even military courts, and thus, the only legal thing to do is release them.

I haven't a clue on any issue of legality - true or false - in this context, DragonStryk. The only comment I offer is that you're evidently a 'release terrorists, never mind how many they may kill if we do this' .. kind of arguer. Which I recognise to be a typically Left wing argument, and also typical of Obama's own thinking until he, as President, had to face up to the REALITY of what wholesale releases would mean !!!

I wish he'd retained that realism. But he's apparently reneging on it now. The release of those five senior Taliban terrorists is a very major success for the Taliban, and one that WILL translate into harm in future.

As we have been detaining them in a manner that violates our own laws, morals, and basic human rights we say we believe in. Moral strength and integrity can only be shown when they are tested, and as long as we continue to surrender to abject hatred, we are losing that test.

Nice words. The reality is that the US has been dealing with a savage, subhuman enemy, to which civilised niceties matter not a jot. I very much doubt that the terrorists concerned have any capacity whatever to understand such things.

So, for the sake of self-image and the comforting belief in one's intact 'integrity' ... tell me this, then How does it serve 'integrity' to adopt methodologies so restrained, so therefore ineffective, that needless deaths are the result ?? You've admitted yourself that torture isn't completely useless. So, tell me of the 'integrity' involved in ALLOWING INNOCENTS TO NEEDLESSLY DIE, FOR THE SAKE OF SELF-RESTRAINT !

[aboutime]

Great news for him, and his family. Otherwise. NOT GOOD AT ALL.

Whatever happened to 'NEVER MAKE DEALS WITH TERRORISTS!'

So, the next American in uniform, or American tourist who looks like a great target overseas becomes the NEXT bargaining chip to get more MURDERERS out of GITMO?

It's not gonna stop here, today.

Just watch. Seems like somebody in Washington has forgotten "Remember History, or you are doomed to REPEAT IT!"

Anyone remember 444 days during the JIMMY CARTER fiasco where MANY Americans were held???

[Drummond]

Great news for him, and his family. Otherwise. NOT GOOD AT ALL.

Whatever happened to 'NEVER MAKE DEALS WITH TERRORISTS!'

So, the next American in uniform, or American tourist who looks like a great target overseas becomes the NEXT bargaining chip to get more MURDERERS out of GITMO?

It's not gonna stop here, today.

Just watch. Seems like somebody in Washington has forgotten "Remember History, or you are doomed to REPEAT IT!"

Anyone remember 444 days during the JIMMY CARTER fiasco where MANY Americans were held???

Word will get around of this being 'new proof' of weakness .. which is what the likes of the Taliban, and Al Qaeda, happily brand scenarios like this as amounting to. As you say, Aboutime, since they've successfully managed this, so they'll expect to again in the future.

I bet Obama's pleased about all this.

[aboutime]

Word will get around of this being 'new proof' of weakness .. which is what the likes of the Taliban, and Al Qaeda, happily brand scenarios like this as amounting to. As you say, Aboutime, since they've successfully managed this, so they'll expect to again in the future.

I bet Obama's pleased about all this.

Sir Drummond. I'm actually waiting for OBAMA to step up to his favorite microphone/telprompter, and take CREDIT for the man's release. Just like he did with OBL. Killed by Obama's orders.

But...what will Obama do when the next AMERICAN is taken for another ransom, or 5 more Perfectly Healthy GITMO prisoners who get better care than OUR VA provides for Veterans???

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. I'm actually waiting for OBAMA to step up to his favorite microphone/telprompter, and take CREDIT for the man's release. Just like he did with OBL. Killed by Obama's orders.

But...what will Obama do when the next AMERICAN is taken for another ransom, or 5 more Perfectly Healthy GITMO prisoners who get better care than OUR VA provides for Veterans???

I'm sure that Obama will be happy to see this scenario played out again. And maybe more times as well.

I don't doubt that he's pleased with himself. He's probably also patting himself on the back for seeing to it that Gitmo gives such care to its inmates.

[Gaffer]

Sir Drummond. I'm actually waiting for OBAMA to step up to his favorite microphone/telprompter, and take CREDIT for the man's release. Just like he did with OBL. Killed by Obama's orders.

But...what will Obama do when the next AMERICAN is taken for another ransom, or 5 more Perfectly Healthy GITMO prisoners who get better care than OUR VA provides for Veterans???

Same as he's doing now with the guy in Mexico, nothing until he can make political hay out of it.

[Abbey Marie]

includes the release of five Afghan detainees, US officials say.

I'm sure their goats have missed them terribly.

[Jeff]

Sir Drummond. I'm actually waiting for OBAMA to step up to his favorite microphone/telprompter, and take CREDIT for the man's release. Just like he did with OBL. Killed by Obama's orders.

But...what will Obama do when the next AMERICAN is taken for another ransom, or 5 more Perfectly Healthy GITMO prisoners who get better care than OUR VA provides for Veterans???

He kind of already did, this was in the article.

In a statement, President Barack Obama hailed Sgt Bergdahl's recovery as "a reminder of America's unwavering commitment to leave no man or woman in uniform behind on the battlefield''.

No that isn't him taken total credit but he is setting himself up !

[jafar00]

I was unaware that they had an American POW. Hopefully we already waterboarded all the intel out of the 5 being released from Gitmo.

Careful. If he wasn't tortured or mistreated (He was handed over in good condition), that would make the Taliban morally better than you making you less than the pond scum they are.

[Noir]

He kind of already did, this was in the article...No that isn't him taken total credit but he is setting himself up !

Presumably you think if he shouldn't credit over the trade, he shouldn't take the blame of it either, yeah?

[Jeff]

Great news for him, and his family. Otherwise. NOT GOOD AT ALL.

Whatever happened to 'NEVER MAKE DEALS WITH TERRORISTS!'

So, the next American in uniform, or American tourist who looks like a great target overseas becomes the NEXT bargaining chip to get more MURDERERS out of GITMO?

It's not gonna stop here, today.

Just watch. Seems like somebody in Washington has forgotten "Remember History, or you are doomed to REPEAT IT!"

Anyone remember 444 days during the JIMMY CARTER fiasco where MANY Americans were held???

That was before we had a terrorist in the WH.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They got taken!!!!!!!!!!
Any one of our military is worth at least a thousand of those scums and that is me being very conservative!!-Tyr