Obama's plan to legalize immigrants

[Trigg]

Charge: Obama plan to legalize millions of immigrants 'disastrous' to blacks

Any grant of legal status will serve as a magnet to prospective illegal immigrants and further depress employment opportunities and wages for African Americans. Given that the labor force participation rate is at an historic low, the unemployment rate is 6.2 percent, and there has been a precipitous decline in household wealth, the timing for such a grant of legal status could not be worse,” he wrote in the letter, provided to Secrets.
Obama hasn’t formally decided what to do on immigration reform, but is planning some form of executive action after he returns from his extended vacation on Martha’s Vineyard Island inMassachusetts.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/black-...rticle/2551741



Actually it's disastrous to anyone working in unskilled labor.

[Lemongrass Gogulope]

I'll bite. First of all, I'm not going down the rabbit hole of "democrats love illegal aliens because they are potential voters." I'm going to stick with only discussing illegal immigrants and how they impact the work force.

Can you tell me, if illegal immigrants impact the work force, why this happened?:

http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/10/crac...immigrant.html

ATLANTA — A farm labor shortage that left crops rotting in the fields after Georgia passed a law cracking down on illegal immigration shows the need for a retooled or expanded guest worker program for migrant laborers, Georgia's agriculture commissioner told a panel of Washington lawmakers Tuesday.

Commissioner Gary Black testified at a Senate subcommittee hearing on immigration enforcement and farm labor that an informal survey showed farmers of onions, watermelons and other handpicked crops lacked more than 11,000 workers during their spring and summer harvest. Farmers say that's because the Georgia immigration law scared off many migrant workers.

(the full story is at the link)

[fj1200]

." I'm going to stick with only discussing illegal immigrants and how they impact the work force.

Can you tell me, if illegal immigrants impact the work force, why this happened?:

http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/10/crac...immigrant.html

ATLANTA — A farm labor shortage that left crops rotting in the fields after Georgia passed a law cracking down on illegal immigration shows the need for a retooled or expanded guest worker program for migrant laborers, Georgia's agriculture commissioner told a panel of Washington lawmakers Tuesday.

There is clearly not enough domestic labor in South Georgia to handle the temporary needs of harvesting. But an overall increase in the supply of unskilled labor is going to have a depressing effect on wages, micro level impacts notwithstanding.

[Lemongrass Gogulope]

There is clearly not enough domestic labor in South Georgia to handle the temporary needs of harvesting. But an overall increase in the supply of unskilled labor is going to have a depressing effect on wages, micro level impacts notwithstanding.

This also happened in Alabama, btw, but I was having trouble cutting and pasting because I failed kindergarten or something.

And I understand what you are saying, but if this was seriously going to impact black people, why didn't black people come along and take these jobs that were suddenly available?

Also, in my area, here in the mushroom capital of the world, employers don't even bother putting up signs in english when they are hiring. The signs say, "necessitamos piscadores." I'm not saying all of these people are illegal, but they are most certainly hispanic.

[Trigg]

I'll bite. First of all, I'm not going down the rabbit hole of "democrats love illegal aliens because they are potential voters." I'm going to stick with only discussing illegal immigrants and how they impact the work force.

Can you tell me, if illegal immigrants impact the work force, why this happened?:

http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/10/crac...immigrant.html

ATLANTA — A farm labor shortage that left crops rotting in the fields after Georgia passed a law cracking down on illegal immigration shows the need for a retooled or expanded guest worker program for migrant laborers, Georgia's agriculture commissioner told a panel of Washington lawmakers Tuesday.

Commissioner Gary Black testified at a Senate subcommittee hearing on immigration enforcement and farm labor that an informal survey showed farmers of onions, watermelons and other handpicked crops lacked more than 11,000 workers during their spring and summer harvest. Farmers say that's because the Georgia immigration law scared off many migrant workers.

(the full story is at the link)

There are 11 million illegals in the US at any given time. Most are working in construction, retail and food service positions. Jobs that pay well and can and do support families.

Illegal immigration does have some undeniably negative economic effects. Similarly skilled native-born workers are faced with a choice of either accepting lower pay or not working in the field at all. Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/ma...anted=all&_r=0

Now, this article does go on to say that since illegals pay rent and utilities they help the economy by spending money. However there is no doubt that they HURT low income and unskilled workers.

After all, why hire and American worker for minimum wage when you can get an illegal for less??

Immigrants use public assistance, medical care and schools

This is a particular problem in Texas and Arizona. We have even noticed an increased problem with illegals at the hospitals in my area. They present to the ER without identification and must be treated. The hospitals eat the cost of their care, simply because they are unable to bill them. Hospitals in both states mentioned have declared bankruptcy.

[fj1200]

This also happened in Alabama, btw, but I was having trouble cutting and pasting because I failed kindergarten or something.

And I understand what you are saying, but if this was seriously going to impact black people, why didn't black people come along and take these jobs that were suddenly available?

Also, in my area, here in the mushroom capital of the world, employers don't even bother putting up signs in english when they are hiring. The signs say, "necessitamos piscadores." I'm not saying all of these people are illegal, but they are most certainly hispanic.

I'm sure it happens in many places where there isn't enough permanent workers to solve a temporary need. And I didn't say anything about black people but if it costs someone too much to take a temporary job hundreds of miles from home with no real benefit, i.e. they aren't going to starve, then no, they won't move. Now if you want to talk about the depressed wages due to an oversupply of labor vs. the marginal costs of losing welfare benefits where distance isn't an issue... well, that would be fun.

[NightTrain]

I'll bite. First of all, I'm not going down the rabbit hole of "democrats love illegal aliens because they are potential voters." I'm going to stick with only discussing illegal immigrants and how they impact the work force.

Funny. It's true, though.

Can you tell me, if illegal immigrants impact the work force, why this happened?:

It's well known that illegals are paid less than minimum wage. Why would anyone take a job for $3 / hour when they can get a job at McDonalds for $8 / hour?

If the farmers need to jack up their prices to support the lawful minimum wage, then so be it.

But why this problem is occurring is because there are a few unscrupulous farmers getting the economic advantage of using illegals which keeps his overhead down, when the upstanding farmer down the road is paying higher labor prices and so is at a tremendous economic disadvantage.

If the government enforced the laws against hiring illegals for illegally low wages across the board, this wouldn't be an issue because the playing field is level. I understand that produce prices would rise to accommodate the higher labor costs, and I don't have a problem with that.

NAFTA is a whole other issue - the tomatoes I buy here in AK are from Mexico. That doesn't make any sense unless you have almost next-to-nothing in labor costs & taxes to more than offset freight costs.

We, as a nation, must adhere to our laws. This picking-and-choosing which laws to enforce is destroying this once great nation. Either enforce the laws or get rid of them if they don't make sense. Lawlessness leads to chaos, and that's what is happening with the massive wave of immigrants crossing the border.

[Lemongrass Gogulope]

Funny. It's true, though.

I said I wasn't going down that rabbit hole. You should respect that.

It's well known that illegals are paid less than minimum wage. Why would anyone take a job for $3 / hour when they can get a job at McDonalds for $8 / hour?

If the farmers need to jack up their prices to support the lawful minimum wage, then so be it.

But why this problem is occurring is because there are a few unscrupulous farmers getting the economic advantage of using illegals which keeps his overhead down, when the upstanding farmer down the road is paying higher labor prices and so is at a tremendous economic disadvantage.

If the government enforced the laws against hiring illegals for illegally low wages across the board, this wouldn't be an issue because the playing field is level. I understand that produce prices would rise to accommodate the higher labor costs, and I don't have a problem with that.

NAFTA is a whole other issue - the tomatoes I buy here in AK are from Mexico. That doesn't make any sense unless you have almost next-to-nothing in labor costs & taxes to more than offset freight costs.

We, as a nation, must adhere to our laws. This picking-and-choosing which laws to enforce is destroying this once great nation. Either enforce the laws or get rid of them if they don't make sense. Lawlessness leads to chaos, and that's what is happening with the massive wave of immigrants crossing the border.

How about we crack down on the people who hire the illegals and give them less incentive to come here.

Also, there are two separate issues going on. The influx of illegal immigrants hasn't changed over the years and they are being deported. I believe you might be confusing the current refugee situation with illegal immigration.

[Trigg]

I said I wasn't going down that rabbit hole. You should respect that.


How about we crack down on the people who hire the illegals and give them less incentive to come here.

Also, there are two separate issues going on. The influx of illegal immigrants hasn't changed over the years and they are being deported. I believe you might be confusing the current refugee situation with illegal immigration.

Fining the people doing the hiring would absolutely help the situation, mandating e-verify would also be a step in the right direction. Deportations will hardly put a dent in our illegal population. Changing the hiring practices of people and companies is the only way to do it.

What exacting is different about the current illegal immigration problem going on at the border? Obama's confusing policies regarding "dreamers" has encouraged people to send for their children. IMHO the current flow of illegals is NOT a refugee situation, although I am sure the media/white house loves the idea of people falling for that line.

[NightTrain]

I said I wasn't going down that rabbit hole. You should respect that.

I did respect it. Otherwise you would have seen a paragraph or three about it.

It was smart of you to disengage from that line of reasoning you knew was coming and I found it genuinely funny. I wasn't being snarky; I was admiring your foresight.

How about we crack down on the people who hire the illegals and give them less incentive to come here.

I agree completely.

Every person who breaks labor laws should face fines & jail time. That would rapidly fix the problem.

Also, there are two separate issues going on. The influx of illegal immigrants hasn't changed over the years and they are being deported. I believe you might be confusing the current refugee situation with illegal immigration.

There are no differences. Illegals are illegals and there should be no distinction in how they're dealt with by the authorities.

There are immigrants following the rules and becoming citizens of the USA every day. There is a legal path to follow, but if we don't enforce immigration laws then why would anyone bother?

It spoke volumes when a group of illegals protested in front of the White House without fear of being deported last week.

[Lemongrass Gogulope]

Fining the people doing the hiring would absolutely help the situation, mandating e-verify would also be a step in the right direction. Deportations will hardly put a dent in our illegal population. Changing the hiring practices of people and companies is the only way to do it.

What exacting is different about the current illegal immigration problem going on at the border? Obama's confusing policies regarding "dreamers" has encouraged people to send for their children. IMHO the current flow of illegals is NOT a refugee situation, although I am sure the media/white house loves the idea of people falling for that line.

There isn't a simple explanation as to why the influx of children, but Obama was pretty clear as to what constituted a "dreamer." And money is being spent in Nicaragua, Guatemala and Hondorus to combat the spread of this misinformation. The problem is that the people are so desperate that it doesn't really matter.

[Lemongrass Gogulope]

There are no differences. Illegals are illegals and there should be no distinction in how they're dealt with by the authorities.

But that's not what the law says. Are you suggesting we violate our own laws?

There are immigrants following the rules and becoming citizens of the USA every day. There is a legal path to follow, but if we don't enforce immigration laws then why would anyone bother?

But the laws are being followed.

It spoke volumes when a group of illegals protested in front of the White House without fear of being deported last week.

I think the issue there is that we are a nation free from random searches. I'm pretty sure that's covered in the constitution. You can't prove they are illegal just because they are brown and you can't demand they show papers without probable cause.

[jimnyc]

Put up a 50 foot steel wall, 10 feet thick. Landmine within 500 yards of gate. Man the gate with .50 calibers. Give people warning on how to get into the country legally.

Oh, and place live cameras along the wall and charge a fee to watch people get blown up trying to sneak in. Help the federal debt at the same time - Obama has increased it by $7b while in office, this would be an awesome way to offset some of that money. Maybe use some of the income to deport those already here. If someone has a criminal record, and here illegally, send them back instantly. Part of a gang? Out by dawn.

[jimnyc]

But the laws are being followed.

If that were the case, anyone caught being in the country illegally would be charged with a crime at the very least, and then deported. Instead, they are given money, drivers licenses, room and board - things citizens have trouble getting. These folks are not coming into the States in the same manner as those in "legal immigration". Those folks often take years, and go through tons of paperwork, and get sponsored and jump through all the legal hurdles. Others crawl along the Rio Grande and are in here within a day, and live in illegal apartments, with illegal jobs. In fact, I would say that the laws that are NOT being followed in regards to our borders and immigration is literally out of control.

[NightTrain]

But that's not what the law says.

It doesn't? How so? How does it differentiate between one illegal and another illegal?

Are you suggesting we violate our own laws?

No. I'm saying we need to enforce our laws consistently, 100% of the time.

But the laws are being followed.

Nope. They're not.

Illegal immigrant demonstrators were protesting outside the White House on Monday – but don’t expect America’s immigration officers to intervene.

An Immigration and Customs Enforcement official indicated that even if the protesters end up getting arrested by D.C. police, they’d have to be serious criminals for ICE to get involved.


“Unless the individuals meet ICE’s enforcement priorities, it’s unlikely that the agency would get involved in the case,” the official told FoxNews.com.

Under a policy that’s been in effect for several years, ICE focuses deportation mostly on serious criminals and – in some cases -- those caught in the act of crossing the border. The agency prioritizes deportation for felons, repeat offenders, gang members and others with a serious criminal record. But the agency largely gives a pass to other undocumented residents.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...repercussions/

I think the issue there is that we are a nation free from random searches. I'm pretty sure that's covered in the constitution. You can't prove they are illegal just because they are brown and you can't demand they show papers without probable cause.

Stop-and-frisk comes to mind.

The wave of illegals observed crossing the border and not immediately turned around also come to mind.

Beyond that, the protest last week in front of the White House by illegals proudly proclaiming that they were illegals shows that we are not enforcing our own laws. ICE didn't have to ask, they proclaimed it themselves.

From Wiki :

Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code, "Improper entry of alien", provides for a fine, imprisonment, or both for any noncitizen who:^[57]

1. enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration agents, or
2. eludes examination or inspection by immigration agents, or
3. attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact.

And then you have Sanctuary Cities enacting their own liberal policies to protect illegals from deportation :

Several US cities have instructed their own law enforcement personnel and other city employees not to notify or cooperate with the federal government when they become aware of illegal immigrants living within their jurisdiction.Many cities, including Washington, D.C.; New York City NYC; Los Angeles; Chicago; San Francisco;^[108] San Diego; Austin; Salt Lake City; Dallas; Detroit; Honolulu; Houston; Jersey City; Minneapolis;Miami; Denver; Aurora, Colorado; Baltimore; Seattle; Portland, Oregon; Portland, Maine; and Senath, Missouri, have become "sanctuary cities", having adopted ordinances refraining from stopping or questioning individuals for the sole purpose of determining their immigration status.^[109]
Most of these cities claim that the benefit illegal immigrants bring to their city outweigh the costs.^{[not in citation given]} Opponents say the measures violate federal law as the cities are in effect creating their own immigration policy, an area of law which only Congress has authority to alter.^[110]

This is clearly unconstitutional - you cannot have a State Law more lenient than Federal Law. It can be more severe; but never more lax.

Let's not get into a discussion about a State making marijuana legal when Fed Law says it's illegal... that's another ball of worms but clearly unconstitutional as well.