Hanson: Sherman and IDF

[Kathianne]

Sherman in Gaza |


I know some from the South have inherited hatred for Sherman, but the truth is he saved many lives and shorted an already long war.

[Gaffer]

Singing: While we were marching through gaza.

[NightTrain]

Victor Davis Hanson is brilliant, as usual. I really enjoy reading his work.

Interesting comparison. I hope the strategy is as successful for the IDF as it was for the Union.

[Gunny]

Sherman in Gaza |


I know some from the South have inherited hatred for Sherman, but the truth is he saved many lives and shorted an already long war.

He was a murdering scumbag with no control over his army, and waged war against noncombatants. But the end justifies the means, right?

[Kathianne]

He was a murdering scumbag with no control over his army, and waged war against noncombatants. But the end justifies the means, right?

He saved many 'noncombatants' by getting the war over. What Hanson wrote is also true, he avoided harming the poor and working class, saving his awe for those that pushed for war.

[aboutime]

He was a murdering scumbag with no control over his army, and waged war against noncombatants. But the end justifies the means, right?

Gunny. With all due respect. Your opinion about someone who did something, so very long ago, being brought here as an argument none of us are capable of waging, since it is History. Almost sounds like the same kinds of arguments being made by African Americans who still haven't recognized we are in the 21st century...and NOBODY LIVING TODAY...had any SLAVES, nor did they take part in the FIGHT to EMANCIPATE All Americans...no matter what their skin color.

How long can we continue to FIGHT about things we Cannot, and Will Never change?
Which is why I use this line as my signature:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
If the IDF is using Sherman's tactics against HAMAS. Would you rather they not use, or remember History, and face Repeating it?

Just a thought.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I hate, yes hate Sherman with every fiber of my being. he waged war directly upon the civilians--that is innocent women and children -in my opinion he was a terrorist and used directly terrorist tactics.. Sure it was successful but imagine the outcry and historical condemnation had General Robert E. Lee engage in those same tactics when the South was winning early on in the war.
Kat, my friend, I have studied the Civil war for over 40 years continuously . I have bought and read over 160 books on the subject.

I can and will agree to its success in ending the war sooner but not the method he employed.
To the victor goes the spoils and the ability to write the history but Sherman was by any decent reckoning - a monster and a completely unprincipled man IMHO.

Sherman could have split the South without "allowing and doing" the deeds that he did.....

It is one thing to fight total war against a foreign enemy but to do so against ones fellow Americans even if it is a civil war is a war crime. For the Union enjoys the fact that it fought for reunification and that means
rejoining and reuniting the survivors of those hideous, murderous and terroristic acts!

Sorry, not sure I can currently devote enough time as is warranted by this subject(interesting one) and your thread on it ....
I do however have extremely strong convictions about the "war crimes"(terrorism) engaged in by Sherman and his army..-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Gunny. With all due respect. Your opinion about someone who did something, so very long ago, being brought here as an argument none of us are capable of waging, since it is History. Almost sounds like the same kinds of arguments being made by African Americans who still haven't recognized we are in the 21st century...and NOBODY LIVING TODAY...had any SLAVES, nor did they take part in the FIGHT to EMANCIPATE All Americans...no matter what their skin color.

How long can we continue to FIGHT about things we Cannot, and Will Never change?
Which is why I use this line as my signature:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
If the IDF is using Sherman's tactics against HAMAS. Would you rather they not use, or remember History, and face Repeating it?

Just a thought.

AT history can not be changed but it can be rewritten.
My view is that discussing history is a very important and vital thing.
How can one correct mistakes and past errors if the events birthing such mistakes are not ever discussed?
We should remember the Civil War was more about states rights vs. Federal government expanding powers.
We now see the results of Federal government expanding powers heading towards a full blown dictatorship with Obama the destroyer at the helm.
Sorry got to run , duty calls..-Tyr.

[aboutime]

I hate, yes hate Sherman with every fiber of my being. he waged war directly upon the civilians--that is innocent women and children -in my opinion he was a terrorist and used directly terrorist tactics.. Sure it was successful but imagine the outcry and historical condemnation had General Robert E. Lee engage in those same tactics when the South was winning early on in the war.
Kat, my friend, I have studied the Civil war for over 40 years continuously . I have bought and read over 160 books on the subject.

I can and will agree to its success in ending the war sooner but not the method he employed.
To the victor goes the spoils and the ability to write the history but Sherman was by any decent reckoning - a monster and a completely unprincipled man IMHO.

Sherman could have split the South without "allowing and doing" the deeds that he did.....

It is one thing to fight total war against a foreign enemy but to do so against ones fellow Americans even if it is a civil war is a war crime. For the Union enjoys the fact that it fought for reunification and that means
rejoining and reuniting the survivors of those hideous, murderous and terroristic acts!

Sorry, not sure I can currently devote enough time as is warranted by this subject(interesting one) and your thread on it ....
I do however have extremely strong convictions about the "war crimes"(terrorism) engaged in by Sherman and his army..-Tyr

Tyr. You, and Gunny have every right to feel as passionate, and angry as your words described above. But...HOW LONG AGO has it been since Sherman...the Terrorist, did those terrible things?

This is why we read History. And learn from History. BUT....it has been a long, long time since all of that took place.
What good does being angry do anyone NOW?

[Gunny]

Gunny. With all due respect. Your opinion about someone who did something, so very long ago, being brought here as an argument none of us are capable of waging, since it is History. Almost sounds like the same kinds of arguments being made by African Americans who still haven't recognized we are in the 21st century...and NOBODY LIVING TODAY...had any SLAVES, nor did they take part in the FIGHT to EMANCIPATE All Americans...no matter what their skin color.

How long can we continue to FIGHT about things we Cannot, and Will Never change?
Which is why I use this line as my signature:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
If the IDF is using Sherman's tactics against HAMAS. Would you rather they not use, or remember History, and face Repeating it?

Just a thought.

I have no problem with your opinion. I am the first to recognize judging people yesterday by today's standard. The fact is, by yesterday's or today's standard, I am consistent. A military force waging war against civilians is bullshit. Now fj can chime in and throw in his 2 cents and drag up Palestine, but there's a difference between waging war against noncombatants and hiding behind them and them getting killed. Sherman waged war against defenseless women and children. There was no one else where he was to fight.

All that freedom crap? Sell it to William Wallace. Equality in this Nation to this day is based on income. You're as free as what you can pay for. The Civil War was fought over money and power. Using "slavery" was a political ploy by Lincoln. He wanted to deport them all back to Africa and did not believe blacks the equal of whites.

Regardless, we sit here and judge hezbollah, the PLO and/or hamas by one standard, but give Sherman a pass on some false notion? What it all boils down to is the winner gets to write the books and he who has the most guns and ammo is right. Right?

I understand the tactic, trust me.

[red state]

Just look at this animal!

Yep, you can lump me in with Tyr and Gunny on this one. Why should we be so passionate about (AGAINST) Sherman.....same could be asked of the Jews (not that I'm comparing all aspects of the War Between the States and the Holocaust). If we lose our compasion, we lose our ability to remember and make certain that these things never again happen. You see, we see Sherman as the gov. he represented at the time as well as the gov. that does not represent the people TODAY. As many know, I have much Cherokee in my blood and I also share some heritage with General Jackson (president Jackson) and I can't stand that guy. To me, Jackson is one of the lousiest presidents we've had (right up there with Wilson, Carter and B.O.). Sherman was an SOB and he and his ilk did great harm to the Union and many such war criminals caused more lives to be lost cuz these animals left many feeling that they truly MUST fight or fall victim to an over powering gov. that had no problem in murdering, looting and raping any more than they had a problem in starting the war by taxing the South more and more unfairly than it did the North with an unequal representation. Folks can try to re-write history all they want but for many Southerners, the truth was passed down through the generations which preserved much of history. To the victor, goes the writing of history but somehow the truth always surfaces and if we fail to remember history or our dark days, we will be doomed to repeat it. I see dark clouds on the horizon and we are seeing a gov. that is just as corrupt and evil as some of our days from the birth and youth of this Nation.

[red state]

I have no problem with your opinion. I am the first to recognize judging people yesterday by today's standard. The fact is, by yesterday's or today's standard, I am consistent. A military force waging war against civilians is bullshit. Now fj can chime in and throw in his 2 cents and drag up Palestine, but there's a difference between waging war against noncombatants and hiding behind them and them getting killed. Sherman waged war against defenseless women and children. There was no one else where he was to fight.

All that freedom crap? Sell it to William Wallace. Equality in this Nation to this day is based on income. You're as free as what you can pay for. The Civil War was fought over money and power. Using "slavery" was a political ploy by Lincoln. He wanted to deport them all back to Africa and did not believe blacks the equal of whites.

Regardless, we sit here and judge hezbollah, the PLO and/or hamas by one standard, but give Sherman a pass on some false notion? What it all boils down to is the winner gets to write the books and he who has the most guns and ammo is right. Right?

I understand the tactic, trust me.

[red state]

Now, let me be clear.....Aboutime is someone I consider a dear friend and I've known and agreed with him on MOST all issues throughout the several years that I've had the pleasure of knowing him and enjoying his posts BUT this mention of forgetting or shrugging something off just because it happened LONG, Long, long ago sounds a bit like another incident now in our history that our leaders have shrugged off or forgotten because it (to them) happened "a long time ago". Really, do we forget our fallen that easily and carelessly? Benghazi was a tragedy and the treatment of the South was as much or more of a tragedy that should NEVER be forgotten or dismissed.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just look at this animal!

Yep, you can lump me in with Tyr and Gunny on this one. Why should we be so passionate about (AGAINST) Sherman.....same could be asked of the Jews (not that I'm comparing all aspects of the War Between the States and the Holocaust). If we lose our compasion, we lose our ability to remember and make certain that these things never again happen. You see, we see Sherman as the gov. he represented at the time as well as the gov. that does not represent the people TODAY. As many know, I have much Cherokee in my blood and I also share some heritage with General Jackson (president Jackson) and I can't stand that guy. To me, Jackson is one of the lousiest presidents we've had (right up there with Wilson, Carter and B.O.). Sherman was an SOB and he and his ilk did great harm to the Union and many such war criminals caused more lives to be lost cuz these animals left many feeling that they truly MUST fight or fall victim to an over powering gov. that had no problem in murdering, looting and raping any more than they had a problem in starting the war by taxing the South more and more unfairly than it did the North with an unequal representation. Folks can try to re-write history all they want but for many Southerners, the truth was passed down through the generations which preserved much of history. To the victor, goes the writing of history but somehow the truth always surfaces and if we fail to remember history or our dark days, we will be doomed to repeat it. I see dark clouds on the horizon and we are seeing a gov. that is just as corrupt and evil as some of our days from the birth and youth of this Nation.

http://www.historynet.com/general-wi...cumseh-sherman

After The Civil War

Sherman succeeded Grant a second time when Grant became president in 1869, becoming the Commanding General of the Army from 1869 until 1883. He was integral to the U.S Army’s involvement with the Indian Wars for the next 15 years. At one point, when asked a question about "good Indians," he responded that, "The only good Indians I ever saw were dead," which became, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" in popular vernacular. Sherman left a legacy of famous quotes, including perhaps his most famous, "War is hell." This, too, was an abridged version of his actual words: "Young men think war is all glory. It is all hell."

Another of Sherman’s quotations is, "If nominated (for president), I will not run. If elected, I will not serve." He was one of the commanders who kept away from politics. Given his long-running feuds with the press, that was probably a wise decision. He published one of the most popular and well-read first-hand accounts of the Civil War, his book Memoirs, published in 1875.

Sherman left a legacy of famous quotes, including perhaps his most famous, "War is hell." This, too, was an abridged version of his actual words: "Young men think war is all glory. It is all hell."

Yes, Sherman's quote was shortened to --"War is Hell" and he went on to prove it when he burned out, starved out , innocent civilian families in his, "March to the Sea"!!
Deep research will show he was a very brutal and vindictive man that decided to wage war directly against innocent civilians in order the reduce the number of troop lives lost under his command. The problem with that is the troops were trained to fight and duty bound to risk their lives whereas those civilians were just trying to live until the war ended.

Sherman decided to sacrifice thousands of innocent women and children to save his men. Yet up to that time no American commander had ever dared to wholesale sacrifice innocent civilians to save his troop lives. What Sherman did was pure terrorism and he was a monster. He starved out thousands of families that had nowhere to go for help. Fact...
Should I be unfortunate enough to end up "down there" I am going to stomp his sorry cowardly ass soon as I arrive and can find him !!!-Tyr

[Gunny]

Now, let me be clear.....Aboutime is someone I consider a dear friend and I've known and agreed with him on MOST all issues throughout the several years that I've had the pleasure of knowing him and enjoying his posts BUT this mention of forgetting or shrugging something off just because it happened LONG, Long, long ago sounds a bit like another incident now in our history that our leaders have shrugged off or forgotten because it (to them) happened "a long time ago". Really, do we forget our fallen that easily and carelessly? Benghazi was a tragedy and the treatment of the South was as much or more of a tragedy that should NEVER be forgotten or dismissed.

I have no problem with aboutime whatsoever. I have all the respect in the world for him. I disagree on a topic. Not personal. I did not attack him. I attacked the argument. Zero problem if he returns fire.