Liberal moonbat
The inside history of WWII
Fair enough, Mr. Gunny. Feel free to share your thoughts here. Having relatives on both sides of WWII makes this a source of rabid interest for me. My paternal grandfather was stationed in the Far East during the waning months of the war. My maternal grandfather was a 17-year-old German soldier who fought the Russians on the Eastern Front.Originally Posted by Gunny
Everyone who has interest is welcome to join in.
Jeff thanked this post
Super Minion
I think this an interesting topic, though your implication on other thread is that American students don't know enough European history. So I figured I'd drop this post here too:
Which European characters then should be studied more 'in depth' than they are by American curriculum?
Lloyd George? Hitler? Von Bismarck? Clemenceau? Mussolini? Atlee? Stalin? Churchill?
Which and why?
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Liberal moonbat
More like Chamberlain, Goering, Himmler, Donitz, Speer and Bormann. Most misrepresented is Goebbels, the master of propaganda.
Want to know who is more responsible for WWII than just about anyone? Neville Chamberlain. This cowardly wimp allowed Hitler to grab territory in Europe without protest. If Chamberlain would have stood up to Hitler instead of trying to pacify him, there would not have been a war. The German military at that time was not ready for conflict. Hitler was all bluster at that time, making threats he knew he could not fulfill.
Chamberlain actually believed the British could be on friendly terms with Hitler. Give him what he wants and he will go away. Instead, Hitler knew Chamberlain was a coward and would not block any of his conquests.
Just Me
Well, thank you very much. So your vast knowledge is based on one person's story? Germany didn't get sucked into anything. I will give you that WWII was unavoidable for may reasons, mostly political. The WWI allies DID create the environment to foster Hitler and WWII with the Treaty of Versailles.
The people however were villains who built their entire regime around controversy, hatred, intolerance and the myth of racial superiority. They were a gang of murdering thugs with power. Because they made promises and the people blindly followed. They wanted hope. The Treaty of Versailles, an inept government and world-wide depression gave them none. So along comes Hitler and his crew making promises. There was hope. Not hard to follow. Typical political ploy.
That doesn't make the pack of thugs that got power any less the criminals than they were.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Liberal moonbat
I've been to Germany more than once. I have conversed with relatives and multiple other people. I have read multitudes of books from all perspectives. I have also conversed with those of English, French and Russian ancestry. One of my great aunts survived the Dresden bombings. Another relative kept a huge diary and scrapbook of her family's life during the war.
It's not just history to me. It's part of my ancestry.
Super Minion
Wow, deep insight there, Gabby. Who'd ever think Chamberlain shouldn't have chosen appeasement? You discovered that, eh?
So it's only German history American kids should be studying, with Chamberlain thrown in? No discussion of Hitler youth or how he came to power with many Germans behind him? Nothing about The Treaty of Versailles or any of that stuff, like the 'stab in the back' that resonated so well?
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Gaffer thanked this post
Super Minion
Nearly everyone has skeletons in their closet. If they claim not to, they just don't know or lie.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Just Me
Me too. Minus the scrap book. Next.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Liberal moonbat
Wasn't saying that American kids should be studying German history. I was stating that it was what I am interested in.
To figure out how Hitler came to power, you have to study what happened between the end of WWI and the rise of the Nazi party. It's quite intricate and involves a lot of political infighting, a lot of money being invested in the right places (in strategic areas that had nothing) and a lot of deception. People supported Hitler in the beginning because he offered improved living conditions. The one question many Germans had was why they lost The Great War. Hitler told them what they wanted to hear (as opposed to telling them the truth).
Why did the German people follow Hitler so blindly? First and foremost, he was a ruthless dictator. Those who opposed him were usually eliminated. You curried favor or you didn't eat. You didn't have a place to live.
You should watch a few vintage German propaganda films. Americans and English were portrayed a bloodthirsty warriors who wanted to rape your daughter and butcher your infant children. The Germans believed it because they knew nothing else.
Right up to the end of 1944, the German people thought they were winning the war. They thought the concentration camps were work areas which produced armaments. Hitler was always portrayed playing with children and giving people money and jobs. Germans had no clue how the war was actually going.
When WWI ended, the Allies left Germany in rubble. There were serious internal repercussions. The Western powers made sure not to repeat that mistake at the end of WWII.
Senior Member
HHhhmmmmm....sounds as though we could repeat history. We have a ChamberLAME within OUR White House who gave a few of the WORSE enemies our Nation could have in exchange for a traitor. Would to God that our ChamberLAME would have (at least) traded one of those terrorists for that reporter they beheaded. Of course, the reporter had a brother who effectively killed muSLUMS (ISIS) and the traitor he actually traded for was a muSLUM wanna-be. And folks say that this piece of crap in OUR White House isn't a muSLUM himself or an enemy sympathizer. Both are traitors in my opinion. Both should be found guilty and SHOT. If I'm out of line or wrong, I'll gladly back off but it'll take the likes of Gunny or someone of his standing to correct me and if that should happen, I'll gladly admit that I was out of line and back off.
Last edited by red state; 08-25-2014 at 10:12 PM.
NEVER MESS WITH AN
IRISH/SCOTT/ITALIAN CHEROKEE!
"A wise man is at the right hand but a fool is at the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2
"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalms 53:1
Liberal moonbat
We are attempting to seriously discuss WWII here. Your lame attempt to link Obama with Hitler belongs elsewhere. Perhaps in The Cage.
Just Me
The comparison is there. Not necessarily with Obama. And any military person that has cognitive reasoning can tell you, at some point, we question just what the Hell we are serving. Correct me if I am wrong, but your point is that the German people followed a government blindly. So now, I'll question you. Isn't that what you accused conservatives of doing from 2000 - 2008? But when the question is turned around, it's not so cool, is it?
Party politics aside, I'm not blaming the German people. They didn't have a choice. Speak against the government and you and your family disappear? I feel EXACTLY the same about US citizens now minus the diversion of party politics. We live ina police state that has gotten progressively worse since the 1970's.
And I understand being in the military and following orders. Most of the military hierarchy hated Hitler, knew what he was doing, and even tried to kill him. Goebbels was beneath contempt. About what I think of our media today. He purposefully lied to the people and knew what he was doing. He was NOT military personnel. He was a politician, plain and simple. He had a choice the average citizen and soldier did not.
Anyone in the hierarchy of the 3d Reich that was complicit in the murder of millions of non-Germans is a criminal. Period. Guilty of cold blooded murder.
Your ancestor was a ground troop, right? He didn't know shit but what he had to face. I can understand that.
You can say Germany got sucked into WWII but the fact is, Germany did as much or more to cause WWII as they were victims of the Treaty of Versailles. And. Germany could have won WWII if not for Hitler. For all his ability to manipulate and mesmerize, he was a strategic and tactical idiot. Should have left the war up to those that know what they're doing.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Obama is the anti Christ
Imagine that someone posting something you don't wantdoesn't feel good does it
Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up
Life, Love, Truth, 3 gems
Hoss, you ain't out of line for freely expressing your views here. That is if you are not breaking board rules when doing so.
That's the strength and beauty of this board--It has far, far more freedom allowed than the other sites! Which does give Jim a lot of grief at times! But IMHO is always worth it. Just sayin'..
As a member in somewhat good standing I heartily agree with your post my friend... --Tyr
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Enemy of the State
In regards to Germany dragged into war, lets look at the facts.
Hitler annexed Austria.
Hitler annexed Czechoslovakia.
Hitler formed the Axis power block.
Hitlers signed a non aggression pact with the soviets.
Hitler invaded Poland. Officially starting WW2.
So exactly where is the dragging into war here?
Oh, and two days after the US declared war on Japan Hitler declared war on the US. As did Mussolini.
Dragged kicking and screaming they were.
When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.
You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.
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