Need electrical help!

[namvet]

The house was built in 1941, so it makes sense, probably the original wiring most of the way around. Does wire in itself "go bad"? What I mean is, if everything works, and a dummy like me doesn't fuck with things, how long is such cable rated for?

if that's still the original wiring yes it can and will go bad. the wire insulation will get hard and brittle split open exposing bare wire !!! if i had the bucks i would have the entire house upgraded to romex. the wall sockets tell the story. old wiring didn't have a ground. so the socket is just 2 connecters. if you have the 3 pin connector then its probably been upgraded. so which is it??? 2 or 3 ??

[namvet]

meet MR Simpson. he saved my ass more than once

[jimnyc]

if that's still the original wiring yes it can and will go bad. the wire insulation will get hard and brittle split open exposing bare wire !!! if i had the bucks i would have the entire house upgraded to romex. the wall sockets tell the story. old wiring didn't have a ground. so the socket is just 2 connecters. if you have the 3 pin connector then its probably been upgraded. so which is it??? 2 or 3 ??

Only the 3 pin connectors for the stairwell, so you can turn off the fan/light from upstairs or downstairs. They aren't 3 pins as in ground, but 3 way switches ( hot wire and 2 travellers between the switches). The rest are 2. Trust me, it's original. All the wiring is covered by what seems to be like a nylon or cotton sheath, which has gotten very brittle over the years. One of the wires coming out of the ceiling had about 3 inches literally fall off when I barely pulled on it, hence me taping up everything like a freak. I bought a 12 foot length of romex from home depot the other day, which I no longer need, but I wish the whole house was using that wiring! So much easier to work with, and seems like it would be more durable. But like you've read, I ain't no electrician!

[Gunny]

if that's still the original wiring yes it can and will go bad. the wire insulation will get hard and brittle split open exposing bare wire !!! if i had the bucks i would have the entire house upgraded to romex. the wall sockets tell the story. old wiring didn't have a ground. so the socket is just 2 connecters. if you have the 3 pin connector then its probably been upgraded. so which is it??? 2 or 3 ??

If it's 40's and hasn't been upgraded, then it's not going to have a ground. Now, by code, everything has to be so grounded it's pathetic. Back then, your neutral (return) was considered the ground because both the neutral and ground are bonded at the service entrance to the facility. They still are. Having a separate ground is much safer.

Not sure I agree on the wire thing though. It's usually the devices that go bad first. I've worked on houses from the late 1800's (oh joy) that were fine but for the devices. But yeah, if you can afford it, having your service upgraded would definitely be the best route.

[namvet]

Only the 3 pin connectors for the stairwell, so you can turn off the fan/light from upstairs or downstairs. They aren't 3 pins as in ground, but 3 way switches ( hot wire and 2 travellers between the switches). The rest are 2. Trust me, it's original. All the wiring is covered by what seems to be like a nylon or cotton sheath, which has gotten very brittle over the years. One of the wires coming out of the ceiling had about 3 inches literally fall off when I barely pulled on it, hence me taping up everything like a freak. I bought a 12 foot length of romex from home depot the other day, which I no longer need, but I wish the whole house was using that wiring! So much easier to work with, and seems like it would be more durable. But like you've read, I ain't no electrician!

damned. not good.



so you have the ungrounded sockets. it really needs to be upgraded bad. im surprised it wasn't some time in the past. to meet code.
you said when lowered the fan the light came on. right?? if it didn't trip a breaker that's a bad connection. or what i call a malfuction at the junction. are the wires taped together?? I never use tape but instead wire nuts.




their cheap, code approved and fast to install. a good tight connection. so. if these wires are taped remove it and replace with the nuts. you may very well find your problem under the tape.

[fj1200]

the wall sockets tell the story. old wiring didn't have a ground. so the socket is just 2 connecters. if you have the 3 pin connector then its probably been upgraded. so which is it??? 2 or 3 ??

Or some knucklehead just put in a grounded socket because their wife bought a new appliance that wouldn't plug in to the old socket. Interestingly I did read in the code that you can put in a GFI outlet without a ground.

[namvet]

Or some knucklehead just put in a grounded socket because their wife bought a new appliance that wouldn't plug in to the old socket. Interestingly I did read in the code that you can put in a GFI outlet without a ground.

knuckleheads can blow the head off your dick. I would think an unground GFI is another disaster waiting to happen. their purpose is to pop with water present.

[fj1200]

knuckleheads can blow the head off your dick. I would think an unground GFI is another disaster waiting to happen. their purpose is to pop with water present.

That's all that knuckleheads are good for. I was surprised about the GFI thing but it's in there. (crap, don't make me look it up) Here it is:

How Do They Work? A GFCI constantly monitors current
flowing through a circuit. If the current
flowing into the circuit differs by a very
small amount (as little as 0.006 amperes)
from the returning current, the GFCI
interrupts power faster than a blink of an
eye to prevent a lethal dose of electricity.
GFCIs are designed to operate before the
electricity can affect your heartbeat. A
GFCI works even on two-slot receptacles.

http://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118853/099.pdf

[Gunny]

damned. not good.



so you have the ungrounded sockets. it really needs to be upgraded bad. im surprised it wasn't some time in the past. to meet code.
you said when lowered the fan the light came on. right?? if it didn't trip a breaker that's a bad connection. or what i call a malfuction at the junction. are the wires taped together?? I never use tape but instead wire nuts.




their cheap, code approved and fast to install. a good tight connection. so. if these wires are taped remove it and replace with the nuts. you may very well find your problem under the tape.

Pre-existing structures do not have to be upgraded to meet code. If Americans had to upgrade every 4 years or so when the NEC puts out a new code book, nobody'd have a place to live. Anf they LOVE to make happy to glad changes.

[Gunny]

Or some knucklehead just put in a grounded socket because their wife bought a new appliance that wouldn't plug in to the old socket. Interestingly I did read in the code that you can put in a GFI outlet without a ground.

What code were YOU reading? You CAN do anything to your own home you wish as far as minor repairs go. But you can't install ANYTHING nowadays that isn't grounded.

[Gunny]

That's all that knuckleheads are good for. I was surprised about the GFI thing but it's in there. (crap, don't make me look it up) Here it is:


http://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118853/099.pdf

Okay, you're talking home repairs for goobers. That is NOT what the NEC code book says. But I can see where we got our wires crossed (pun intended).

[fj1200]

What code were YOU reading? You CAN do anything to your own home you wish as far as minor repairs go. But you can't install ANYTHING nowadays that isn't grounded.

The NEC is the only one electrical right? It was in there someplace. When I sold my last house 5 years ago the new owners wanted X done and I said no because it was already OK or I added a GFI to make it OK. I know I found it in there.

[Gunny]

The NEC is the only one electrical right? It was in there someplace. When I sold my last house 5 years ago the new owners wanted X done and I said no because it was already OK or I added a GFI to make it OK. I know I found it in there.

It's different though. You're talking about home repairs to existing electrical. I'm talking installation from scratch. That is what I do and am most familiar with.

Electrical does not have to be upgraded to sell a home, nor updated to meet current code. Completely different than commercial construction where we start with dirt and build from there.

[fj1200]

It's different though. You're talking about home repairs to existing electrical. I'm talking installation from scratch. That is what I do and am most familiar with.

Electrical does not have to be upgraded to sell a home, nor updated to meet current code. Completely different than commercial construction where we start with dirt and build from there.

I agree with all that, this was a specific violation, or so they thought, that I wasn't going to spend any more than I had to to make right. I know enough to rewire my house but I had no interest in messing with the new box and upgraded service. I know my limitations.

I think this was the code section:

Note: When GFCI protection is not provided, Section 250-130(c) allows nongrounding-type receptacle to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle at an outlet box that does not contain an equipment grounding conductor, if the grounding contacts of the receptacle are bonded to any one of the following locations

[Gunny]

I agree with all that, this was a specific violation, or so they thought, that I wasn't going to spend any more than I had to to make right. I know enough to rewire my house but I had no interest in messing with the new box and upgraded service. I know my limitations.

I think this was the code section:

Okay. I understand what you are saying now.