the least-skilled demanding MORE money - without earning it

[darin]

So - the weak and ignorant in Detroit are now protesting the pay they get for doing JACK SHIT's worth of work...they 'demand' to be paid more.


http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/09/...oit-mcdonalds/

The protesters who were sitting on Mack Avenue and refusing to move had a bit of a negotiating session between the police department and the organizers — that didn’t go anywhere,” Szumanski said. “So, police have now swooped in and what they have done is arrested at least 20, maybe 30 people. They’re leading them away in handcuffs to the back of the squad cars.”Organizers say the act of civil obedience was choreographed by the D15 campaign to bring more attention to the cause. It’s unclear what charges those arrested might face.
The “Fight for $15″ campaign, which is backed financially by the Service Employees International Union and others, has gained national attention at a time when the wage gap between the poor and the rich has become a hot political issue. President Barack Obama mentioned the campaign at a Labor Day appearance in Milwaukee.
“There’s a national movement going on made up of fast food workers organizing to lift wages so they can provide for their families with pride and dignity,” Obama said, as he pushed Congress to raise the minimum wage. “If I were busting my butt in the service industry and wanted an honest day’s pay for an honest day’s work, I’d join a union,” he added.
Many fast-food workers do not make much more than the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, which adds up to about $15,000 a year for 40 hours a week.
Kaya Moody, a 20-year-old single mother who works at a different McDonald’s location in Detroit, has taken part in several protests and she admits it hasn’t been an easy sell.
“We always get the ‘Do you really think you deserve $15 an hour as a fast food worker?’ We get that a lot and I just feel like, who doesn’t deserve $15 an hour, you know? It’s a living wage. No one can survive off of $8.15 an hour, it’s almost impossible,” Moody told WWJ’s Ron Dewey.

A co-worker summarized it nicely:

By now everyone has heard about the fast food workers striking in Detroit and other parts of the nation, demanding their minimum wage be raised to $15/hr. For comparison sake, below are the 2014 pay rates for enlisted soldiers broken down into hourly rates. True, active duty soldiers get other benefits, but they also work a lot more than a 40 hour week as well (which is what I based the conversion on.)


Fast work worker demands = $15/hr

E1 with <2 yrs service $18,378/yr = $8.84/hr

E4 with 4 yrs service $27,936/yr = $13.44/hr

E5 with 6 yrs service $32,814/yr = $15.79/hr


So, the person who can't even manage to not fuck up an order as simple as 'hold the pickles' somehow believes they deserve the same compensation as an individual who manages complex weapons systems, is responsible for the lives of others as well as tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollar in equipment, tools and supplies, and often works in austere conditions and risks their life on a regular basis.

That $15/hr is also equal to the national average starting salary of an ASE certified mechanic with a skilled trades degree (sourced from salary.com)

Yeah, that sounds fair. How about free water, too?

Couple that with - they will NOT be happy until burgers cost $22 each, and rent goes up 400%. Idiots.

[fj1200]

Couple that with - they will NOT be happy until burgers cost $22 each, and rent goes up 400%. Idiots.

I don't think that's going to happen but they won't be happy until they are replaced with a burger flipper machine and the one guy that replaces 3 guys will get the $15. Of course that guy will at least have finished HS and probably community college which will leave the unskilled, once again, way behind.

[darin]

I don't think that's going to happen but they won't be happy until they are replaced with a burger flipper machine and the one guy that replaces 3 guys will get the $15. Of course that guy will at least have finished HS and probably community college which will leave the unskilled, once again, way behind.

...which drives the democrat voter base - people who refuse to earn; instead demanding free shit.

[fj1200]

...which drives the democrat voter base - people who refuse to earn; instead demanding free shit.

At some point it's not about refuse to earn, it's about can't earn because the minimum wage has priced them beyond what their skills are worth. But the point that we should be making is what the true problem is rather than just calling them a bunch of lazy idiots who just want "free S*." I think one of those is a better message come election time.

[NightTrain]

I don't think that's going to happen but they won't be happy until they are replaced with a burger flipper machine and the one guy that replaces 3 guys will get the $15. Of course that guy will at least have finished HS and probably community college which will leave the unskilled, once again, way behind.

Good point, one that hadn't occurred to me.

When the more motivated and higher educated work force fills those $15 / hour jobs, where will those demanding the higher wage be then?

Mowing lawns? Shoveling snow? Hanging out at Home Depot trying to compete with illegals to build your shed?

I think I'd rather have a HS graduate with some college building my burger than a HS dropout slacker smoking their lunch. You know which one the hiring manager will pick.

[darin]

At some point it's not about refuse to earn, it's about can't earn because the minimum wage has priced them beyond what their skills are worth. But the point that we should be making is what the true problem is rather than just calling them a bunch of lazy idiots who just want "free S*." I think one of those is a better message come election time.

They people refuse to EARN money. Earning $15 might be having TWO $7.50/hr jobs. Might be working 20 hour days. Who knows.

People refuse to take responsibility for their livelihood - that's what this is about.

[Baba Booey]

Mixed feelings on this issue.

If your skill level is such that a robot can easily replace you, you should feel lucky you're getting 7 bucks an hour. Want a living wage? Acquire a skill and/or an education. Easy as that, forcing the minimum wage well beyond the fair market equilibrium is like trying to force a fart, you're gonna shit your pants sooner or later. (shaddap, Gunny )

On the other hand, the vast minority of people control the vast majority of wealth and power in this country and no matter what any Rushbeck ass kissing institutionalized bucket carrying wingnut says (or is programmed to say), you, me, none of us 99%ers have a snowball's chance in hell of crossing over to the 1%.

So how "pure" is the freemarket really if the largest chunk of the market's wealth is highly concentrated in one specific demographic?

Not too pure, hence anyone who thinks we exist in a freemarket capitalistic society needs to update their meds.

These are union workers and when I think union I think powerful special interest, nepotism and privilege. So fuck these union people who bled Detroit dry like they did the steel industry. How great are unions when they'll watch an industry collapse by sucking the last drop of blood out of it than bend? So screw them.

On the other hand, how arrogant is the City of Detroit? Kind of a tangent point but they're sitting on this huge, valuable art collection worth (based on "loans" offered to them by a large art collecting firm) $3b and it looks like they're going to convince the bankruptcy judge to carve this out of funds available to creditors. This is where people, citizens, taxpayers should take up pitchforks and torches and storm the courthouse. What arrogance. A guy loses his job and he and his family are living out of their car because Detroit reneged on it's pension obligation to him but hey, at least Detroit gets to keep billions in artwork.

Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by fault lines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

And some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will 'cause
I sure could use a vacation from this

STUPID shit, silly shit, stupid shit...

One great big festering neon distraction,
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.

Learn to swim.

Mom's gonna fix it all soon.
Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to
be.

[tailfins]

Couple that with - they will NOT be happy until burgers cost $22 each, and rent goes up 400%. Idiots.

I will gladly pay $22 for a burger. However, it must be prepared by a master chef.

[Baba Booey]

I will gladly pay $22 for a burger. However, it must be prepared by a master chef.

Some of them might make just $15/hour so might as well be.

[tailfins]

Some of them might make just $15/hour so might as well be.

That assumes that the master chef has the authority to use locally sourced, best quality ingredients.

[darin]

Mixed feelings on this issue.
On the other hand, the vast minority of people control the vast majority of wealth and power in this country

You can't honestly use that argument without discussing the 'why?'


Big Businesses GET big largely because the Poor(er) keeping giving them their money. It's a self-inflicted wound on the part of the whining majority; and it's a non-issue to the middle; people like me earning what I make and doing a pretty good job of it.

[fj1200]

They people refuse to EARN money. Earning $15 might be having TWO $7.50/hr jobs. Might be working 20 hour days. Who knows.

People refuse to take responsibility for their livelihood - that's what this is about.

No. If that's what you make it about then you lose any credibility; Do you think a 20-year old single mother is refusing to take responsibility? Those people have ZERO control over their lives unless you want them to go underground and I at least applaud them for having a job in the first place. Just telling them to "work more" is pointless if there aren't any jobs in the first place. That's what the MW argument should be about; that increasing the MW kills job opportunities for those who most need it and are most at risk.

I hope they eventually do earn $15, and more, but they should earn it because the demand for labor is greater than the supply and/or because they entered the market to gain experience and maturity.

[fj1200]

So how "pure" is the freemarket really if the largest chunk of the market's wealth is highly concentrated in one specific demographic?

Not too pure, hence anyone who thinks we exist in a freemarket capitalistic society needs to update their meds.

It's not not-free because of wealth concentration, it's not-free in this case because the government has simultaneously created a price floor, a disincentivizing welfare system, and a regulatory environment that is harmful to economic growth.

[darin]

No. If that's what you make it about then you lose any credibility; Do you think a 20-year old single mother is refusing to take responsibility? Those people have ZERO control over their lives unless you want them to go underground and I at least applaud them for having a job in the first place. Just telling them to "work more" is pointless if there aren't any jobs in the first place. That's what the MW argument should be about; that increasing the MW kills job opportunities for those who most need it and are most at risk.

I hope they eventually do earn $15, and more, but they should earn it because the demand for labor is greater than the supply and/or because they entered the market to gain experience and maturity.

Yeah, a 20 year old single mother OR father who takes a non-skill job and then simply protests for more money IS refusing responsibility. Those people have 100% control. They can give the kids up for adoption? They can leave the kids with friends/relatives? They can work TWO jobs until a higher paying job happens for them. There ARE jobs, bro.

Your point about the crux of the argument is a good point; but I think the root of the problem is people's unwllingness to take FULL responsibility for their lives. They DEMAND "help". Demanding Help? It's not HELP at that point.

I'm agry about this today - and that drives my cinicism and stubborness preventing a truly-honest debate from my part. I hope you see that.

[fj1200]

Yeah, a 20 year old single mother OR father who takes a non-skill job and then simply protests for more money IS refusing responsibility. Those people have 100% control. They can give the kids up for adoption? They can leave the kids with friends/relatives? They can work TWO jobs until a higher paying job happens for them. There ARE jobs, bro.

Your point about the crux of the argument is a good point; but I think the root of the problem is people's unwllingness to take FULL responsibility for their lives. They DEMAND "help". Demanding Help? It's not HELP at that point.

I'm agry about this today - and that drives my cinicism and stubborness preventing a truly-honest debate from my part. I hope you see that.

Oh come on. We both know Detroit and you're closer to it than I am. Those people by and large have zero control. There are no jobs and she is probably in a better position than most. The Detroit unemployment rate is 17.7% and going up so where are these wonderful jobs at? Do I think she's wrong and short-sighted? Of course but it's better to explain the problem than call her lazy.