the least-skilled demanding MORE money - without earning it

[jimnyc]

I don't see how it's the employers responsibility because there aren't a lot of other jobs or choices out there. These folks think the employer should foot the bill for the bad times and just shrug their shoulders and double all the salaries. These people are running on stupid advice and greed.

If this were me and my local McDonalds? I fire all of them. Then I go to local High Schools and rec centers and tell them about fantastic jobs available for $9 an hour for those truly interested in an opportunity to make some money. And I assure you, I'll fill the jobs. There may not be a ton of jobs out there, but there ARE a ton of people that will work for what they offer.

If I own a business, and an employee tries to dictate his salary to me, that would be his last day.

[aboutime]

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. They've occasionally tried to "salt" our company with plants.

But who is to blame was not what I was addressing. I was addressing the effect on the economy and everyone else's (my) wages.

On the union issue, WHAT exactly does the union have to gain? Fast food workers aren't union. Driving the wage scale up in Detroit, a dead city, is going to do what for them? They can collect more dues from laid-off employees (not) working non-existent jobs?

Union employees are skilled labor. They make more than minimum wage. I don't see the incentive for the unions to want to increase wages when they can't even keep their people employed as it is. I just spent the last 3 years in that region of the US. It's dead to blue-collar trade workers. And I mean D-E-A-D dead. A case of the Dems cutting their own throats since it's THEIR policy that killed industry in the "Rust Belt". They EPA'd their own supporters out of business but their own supporters are too stupid to see that blindly keep putting them in office.

Are the unions self-serving bureaucrats and power brokers that have priced themselves out of business? Yes. They are a microcosm of the Federal government. Are they above dirty tricks? No. I just don't see any incentive for unions to give a flip about non-union employees who are unskilled labor.

Gunny. SEIU wants those Fast Food Workers to join a Union. Either THEIR new Union, or S.E.I.U. SEIU has been losing members over the last several years. Which means...losing DUES, which means THEY NEED MORE DUES PAYING members.
And I must disagree with you again on Union employee's being skilled labor. Many cities, towns, and counties have Union member street sweepers, and hole diggers.
I was once a member of the TEAMSTERS with my father, at 16, before I joined the navy. They were dedicated to the memberships then, but the Leadership always got the biggest paychecks AFTER everybody else.
Unions like S.E.I.U. are only representing workers who need someone to bargain for their wages, and benefits. So, if they can get Fast Food workers to get a minimum wage of 15 dollars an hour. That benefits SEIU as they collect a percentage of that 15 dollars as dues.

[hjmick]

I've got something for these folks...


Here's The Burger-Flipping Robot That Could Put Fast-Food Workers Out Of A Job

The company's robot can "slice toppings like tomatoes and pickles immediately before it places the slice onto your burger, giving you the freshest burger possible." The robot is "more consistent, more sanitary, and can produce ~360 hamburgers per hour." That's one burger every 10 seconds.

[jimnyc]

I've got something for these folks...


Here's The Burger-Flipping Robot That Could Put Fast-Food Workers Out Of A Job

That is awesome! And the best part? I bet the metal bastard always gets my order right and I'll never have to fear it spitting in my food.

[Baba Booey]

It's not not-free because of wealth concentration, it's not-free in this case because the government has simultaneously created a price floor, a disincentivizing welfare system, and a regulatory environment that is harmful to economic growth.

It's not entirely free because of both, and a combination of both.

Wealth influences legislation, that's pretty clear. Markets are closed because of barriers created by wealthy, powerful and politically influential corporatists.

Wealth concentration is certainly a factor that inhibits free-markets, with wealth comes power, with wealth and power comes corruption.

[red state]

That is awesome! And the best part? I bet the metal bastard always gets my order right and I'll never have to fear it spitting in my food.

True that, Jim. I can't tell you the times back in the day and very late at night when coming home from a concert and getting a bite only to throw it away....after a few times of that, I usually do a drive by first to see the work force. HA! If they have nose rings and such....I'm going somewhere else or going hungry till I get home.

Back to the topic at hand, however, once the minimum wage (or EVERY TIME the minimum wage goes up) milk, rent and fuel usually isn't too far behind. This, as GUNNY said, has a major effect on folks like him (and me). So, in effect, you raise the salary of unskilled workers and automatically lower salaries for skilled laborers. It is basic economics....if someone (say your land lord) takes a hit or knows that his tenants (some of which may actually be low income laborers) it is simple math that he raise the rent (what rent isn't on contract that is).

As someone said earlier (good post) it is this liberal concept that OTHERs owe them something when we truly owe them NOTHING but a good, stiff kick in the pants (or worse).

[Baba Booey]

One thing I hasn't been addressed .... if minimum wage is doubled, are my wages correspondingly doubled? If not, that's just dragging my wages down.

A minimum wage increase beyond market demand sets a watermark. It also prices out low/no skilled labor to a degree.

Production is a key element to our economy and many production jobs are being outsourced because labor is cheaper beyond our borders.

This is my statement, I didn't hijack this from someone else but it's probably been said somewhere along the way, but you cannot consume more than you produce as a nation.

Repeat - you cannot consume more than you produce as a nation and right now we're net consumers. Emerging economies are net producers, that tide is shifting, we see it clearly every day. In the long run that is, what winds up happening is that our standard of living gets charged off on credit cards - debt. Greece, Spain - those are great examples. Consuming more than they produce. They should be wake-up calls, but our political system - short term "zinger" gains for politicians > long term fiscally responsible strategy.

In this simple statement I do not include the service industry as "production" or the public sector.

[red state]

Of course, there's always some point into the operation of handling our food where one can do unscrupulous things. Still, the concept of a robot making our food is brilliant...............just not NEW (take a look at this)!!!

[aboutime]

The real, pragmatic, honest way I see all of those Fast Food worker demands is...They are actually destroying their own potential to work where they work now.

The more demands they make, the more noise, and disruption they bring to the business they demand THEY NEED 15 Dollars an hour in order to work for...the more the Owners/Franchisee's see fewer workers, working fewer hours, for fewer Dollars.

For the SELFISH, and Easily Led, Wannabe Union members. It becomes the END of what they think is equal pay, for equal work that, eventually...someone else will happily do, or a Robot that makes NO DEMANDS, works longer hours, for NO minimum wage WINS.

[Gunny]

Gunny. SEIU wants those Fast Food Workers to join a Union. Either THEIR new Union, or S.E.I.U. SEIU has been losing members over the last several years. Which means...losing DUES, which means THEY NEED MORE DUES PAYING members.
And I must disagree with you again on Union employee's being skilled labor. Many cities, towns, and counties have Union member street sweepers, and hole diggers.
I was once a member of the TEAMSTERS with my father, at 16, before I joined the navy. They were dedicated to the memberships then, but the Leadership always got the biggest paychecks AFTER everybody else.
Unions like S.E.I.U. are only representing workers who need someone to bargain for their wages, and benefits. So, if they can get Fast Food workers to get a minimum wage of 15 dollars an hour. That benefits SEIU as they collect a percentage of that 15 dollars as dues.

I understand the mechanics to the union. My grandfather was a union man, and my trade is permeated with it. Where we differ in definition could be where we live. If you aren't a skilled tradesman HERE, you aren't in a union. The union doesn't dictate squat. When I was in Ohio and IL, it was just the opposite. I couldn't find non-union work. The laws basically allowed the unions out anyone that wasn't part of them.

I'd like to see them try to unionize unskilled labor HERE. Especially fast food burger flippers. Dime-a-dozen. Go ahead and quit.

I think it boils down to the difference in where you live and where I do. This is a right to work state and its laws emasculated the union and there's no shortage of manpower. Want to bitch? Bye. Want to get paid more than you are worth? Bye. We got LOTS of people to replace you.

[Gaffer]

What's not being discussed here is this is suppose to be a national minimum wage. Meaning it put a lot of business out of business. Also, it doesn't take into account that different areas of the country have different costs of living. So it affects areas where it takes less to live. This would totally destroy the economy.

As for the protesters, fuck em, most aren't even employed at the places they are protesting and the rest need to be fired.

[fj1200]

I'm too cynical to think there's ANY OTHER option than the folks i'm talking about voting ANYTHING but democrat, regardless.

Think long term. Besides, we've got bigger structural problems that should be addressed rather than just telling people to move.

It's not entirely free because of both, and a combination of both.

Wealth influences legislation, that's pretty clear. Markets are closed because of barriers created by wealthy, powerful and politically influential corporatists.

Wealth concentration is certainly a factor that inhibits free-markets, with wealth comes power, with wealth and power comes corruption.

Disagree. Rich people like to make money and overall free(er) markets make money over closed ones. I'll agree that some use power to buy influence but wealth concentration, on its own, does not make a market less free.

BTW, are those corporatists related to the globalists?

A minimum wage increase beyond market demand sets a watermark. It also prices out low/no skilled labor to a degree.

Production is a key element to our economy and many production jobs are being outsourced because labor is cheaper beyond our borders.

This is my statement, I didn't hijack this from someone else but it's probably been said somewhere along the way, but you cannot consume more than you produce as a nation.

Repeat - you cannot consume more than you produce as a nation and right now we're net consumers. Emerging economies are net producers, that tide is shifting, we see it clearly every day. In the long run that is, what winds up happening is that our standard of living gets charged off on credit cards - debt. Greece, Spain - those are great examples. Consuming more than they produce. They should be wake-up calls, but our political system - short term "zinger" gains for politicians > long term fiscally responsible strategy.

In this simple statement I do not include the service industry as "production" or the public sector.

Sure we can, we've been doing it for quite some time. Greece and Spain have actively worked to crater their own economies and aren't really good indicators. We've been more passively working to crater our economy because we no longer focus on our comparative advantages; intellectual properties, low cost of capital, best higher education system, etc.

[Baba Booey]

Sure we can, we've been doing it for quite some time. Greece and Spain have actively worked to crater their own economies and aren't really good indicators. We've been more passively working to crater our economy because we no longer focus on our comparative advantages; intellectual properties, low cost of capital, best higher education system, etc.

In the short run yes, in the long run absolutely not.

[fj1200]

In the short run yes, in the long run absolutely not.

Short and long. Production is not limited to things.

[Baba Booey]

Short and long. Production is not limited to things.

Explain/elaborate