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    Default This is shameful

    These decisions continue to baffle me.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/us...taff.html?_r=0
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    These decisions continue to baffle me.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/us...taff.html?_r=0
    Couldn't agree more - military cuts of this type are a tragedy on a number of levels. For the loyal servicemen putting their lives on the line, only to be rewarded with that kind of treatment. For the security of your own nation. And for that matter, it's something of a tragedy for the wider Western world too, when you consider the nature of our enemies out there.

    The UK has been involved in round after round of military spending cuts in recent years ... so much so that there's debate about the extent of harm it'll do to continue with them. Here's a recent article on the subject, for what it may be worth (if anything) to anybody here ...

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4ac0bde8-6...44feabdc0.html

    Britain’s military chiefs have warned that the next government will be unable to cut the defence budget without wide-ranging implications for what the UK can do with its armed forces.

    Speaking in front of the Commons defence committee on Wednesday, the chiefs of the three military services and the head of the joint forces command told MPs that any cut in current spending proposals would jeopardise the government’s “future force 2020” strategic plan. Many analysts believe a spending cut is highly likely given the need to reduce the UK deficit.

    “We would be very quickly in a position where we could not deliver [the strategic plan],” said Sir George Zambellas, first sea lord and chief of the naval staff. “If we do not stick to current spending then we would return to the government and say we can’t do what we are asked to do and what do you want us to give up.”
    Last edited by Drummond; 11-13-2014 at 06:55 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    It's a sign of the times, this country has no morals any longer, we push out all religions except Muslims and while your at it lets down size the military, our country has been turned so liberal it is disgusting. And all this sheot they are doing is setting us up perfect ( or so the Gov thinks ) to have ISIS or some other scum walk in and take over, what they forget is our armed citizens make up the biggest army in the world and we wont be playing by anybodies rules !!
    Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up

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    "be all you can be" then well kick you out with partial pay.
    "thank you for your service"

    This is BS. They could skip buying a handful of new Planes or Delay a new drone program,
    Stop the wars for 2 days and have enough cash to keep all the men plus fund other items.

    the military budget is eaten up by contractors, the enlisted men are getting crapped on as usual.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    It's a sign of the times, this country has no morals any longer, we push out all religions except Muslims and while your at it lets down size the military, our country has been turned so liberal it is disgusting. And all this sheot they are doing is setting us up perfect ( or so the Gov thinks ) to have ISIS or some other scum walk in and take over, what they forget is our armed citizens make up the biggest army in the world and we wont be playing by anybodies rules !!
    My theory is that the chief reason why we all don't suffer more terrorist attacks than we do, is that terrorists are too busy busting their guts laughing at us, to get around to planning new atrocities.

    Relying on terrorists being entertained by the West's weakness is, in my view, NOT the way to go !!!!
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    "be all you can be" then well kick you out with partial pay.
    "thank you for your service"

    This is BS. They could skip buying a handful of new Planes or Delay a new drone program,
    Stop the wars for 2 days and have enough cash to keep all the men plus fund other items.

    the military budget is eaten up by contractors, the enlisted men are getting crapped on as usual.
    -- I see a Leftie agenda in the making ?

    'Stop the wars for 2 days'. Yeah, sure.

    Well .... it'd be a bigger saving for such cessations to last a lot longer, eh ? And if all wars just stopped .... then, heyy wouldn't that be just peachy ??

    Ignore, of course, the massive inroads the likes of ISIS, Al Qaeda etc would then make. Ignore the certainty of one or more Nation States turning into a Failed State, along the lines of a pre 9/11 Afghanistan .. BECAUSE, IF THE LEFT HAD ITS WAY, 9/11 WOULD TEACH US ALL PRECISELY NOTHING, AND WE'D BE JUST WAITING AROUND FOR MORE OF THEM TO HAPPEN.

    Like lambs to the wholly avoidable slaughter, eh, Revelarts ??

    And, who'd carp the loudest, if one such terrorist atrocity occurred ?

    LEFTIES ... I'd bet ....
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    -- I see a Leftie agenda in the making ?

    'Stop the wars for 2 days'. Yeah, sure.

    Well .... it'd be a bigger saving for such cessations to last a lot longer, eh ? And if all wars just stopped .... then, heyy wouldn't that be just peachy ??

    Ignore, of course, the massive inroads the likes of ISIS, Al Qaeda etc would then make. Ignore the certainty of one or more Nation States turning into a Failed State, along the lines of a pre 9/11 Afghanistan .. BECAUSE, IF THE LEFT HAD ITS WAY, 9/11 WOULD TEACH US ALL PRECISELY NOTHING, AND WE'D BE JUST WAITING AROUND FOR MORE OF THEM TO HAPPEN.

    Like lambs to the wholly avoidable slaughter, eh, Revelarts ??

    And, who'd carp the loudest, if one such terrorist atrocity occurred ?

    LEFTIES ... I'd bet ....
    A 'LEFT AGENDA' is what you see here?!
    It's amazing what some people "see" here sometimes
    but you're a singular piece of work Drummond.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Couldn't agree more - military cuts of this type are a tragedy on a number of levels. For the loyal servicemen putting their lives on the line, only to be rewarded with that kind of treatment. For the security of your own nation. And for that matter, it's something of a tragedy for the wider Western world too, when you consider the nature of our enemies out there.

    The UK has been involved in round after round of military spending cuts in recent years ... so much so that there's debate about the extent of harm it'll do to continue with them. Here's a recent article on the subject, for what it may be worth (if anything) to anybody here ...

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4ac0bde8-6...44feabdc0.html

    Defence cuts leave Royal Navy so short of engineers it has to BORROW them from US Coastguard

    American service personnel will start work later this month as engineering technicians on board Type 23 frigates
    Defense cuts have left the Royal Navy so short of engineers it has had to BORROW them from the US Coast Guard.


    American service personnel will start work later this month as engineering technicians on board Type 23 frigates.
    If this is successful, a team of 36 US are due to be working in the naval dockyard in Portsmouth by the end of 2016.


    The navy says it is bringing the engineers to the city because of cuts to staff numbers

    http://www.marsecreview.com/2014/10/...ers-from-uscg/
    Every day I beat my previous record of consecutive days I've stayed alive.




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    Nobody wanted to listen to old farts who didn't know what we were talking about...when all of this began with the Clinton administration back in the 90's.

    We were told to shut up, mind our own business, and be thankful we're getting something (the govt. called our pensions), even as they made excuses...as to WHY they govt. wasn't keeping their promise to Military people.

    I personally warned many, many people in uniform, before I retired. How the contract with the Govt. was never going to be completely honored as the cutbacks, and what they called "DOWNSIZING" was chasing highly experienced, seasoned people out of uniform with near BRIBES for large sums of money IF...they just left active duty.

    This is what our military is getting these days. BROKEN PROMISES, and all of it is being blamed on Republicans, while the Dems enjoy showing their NEAR ILLITERATE voters how they NEVER LIE.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    A 'LEFT AGENDA' is what you see here?!
    It's amazing what some people "see" here sometimes
    but you're a singular piece of work Drummond.
    I'm a singular piece of work, am I ?? You flatterer ...

    But I'm RIGHT, all the same. The most strident voices against 'wars' (in reality, policing actions in parts of the world where they're most needed) are those from THE LEFT.

    Consider all the marches undertaken, worldwide, to protest against the 2003 anti-Saddam invasion. Those were all Leftie organised and Leftie driven. Of course they were.

    If you want to find one common denominator amongst all those pressing for measures that show undue consideration for terrorists, it'll be their Leftie outlooks and sympathies.

    And, Revelarts .. please be honest. If ever your two-day 'war cessation' were to ever happen, there'd be a never-ending chorus of voices saying it needed to be longer ... or, permanent. The moment you open the floodgates to that sort of thinking, the Left would ensure there'd be no going back.

    Only terrorist enemies could gain from that.

    No, Revelarts. I live in the real world. I'm not in the business of giving bloodthirsty enemies favours !!! Maybe you are. But not me. And if that - supposedly - makes me a so-called 'singular piece of work', then that's something to take pride in.

    ... So, thank you !!!
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    My theory is that the chief reason why we all don't suffer more terrorist attacks than we do, is that terrorists are too busy busting their guts laughing at us, to get around to planning new atrocities.

    Relying on terrorists being entertained by the West's weakness is, in my view, NOT the way to go !!!!
    Actually, they see no reason to since Obama is doing it for them. Told everybody I know, the scum is a traitor and that's not just because of these one thing--look at the all the harm he has done our military since he became CIC. Then add in ALL the massive harm he has caused this nation--its not accidental--its not incompetence--its ffing deliberate..
    He bats for our enemies folks.. --Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    Actually, they see no reason to since Obama is doing it for them. Told everybody I know, the scum is a traitor and that's not just because of these one thing--look at the all the harm he has done our military since he became CIC. Then add in ALL the massive harm he has caused this nation--its not accidental--its not incompetence--its ffing deliberate..
    He bats for our enemies folks.. --Tyr
    .. Gets to the heart of the problem once more. Well said, Tyr.
    Last edited by Drummond; 11-13-2014 at 10:16 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    "be all you can be" then well kick you out with partial pay.
    "thank you for your service"

    This is BS. They could skip buying a handful of new Planes or Delay a new drone program,
    Stop the wars for 2 days and have enough cash to keep all the men plus fund other items.

    the military budget is eaten up by contractors, the enlisted men are getting crapped on as usual.
    ... and Revelarts: let me offer you another answer !

    Consider ISIS, and the advances it's made (and still wants to make).

    Cue a 2-day cessation of air strikes -- because Lefties advocate it.

    Two days goes by. ISIS does its damndest to take advantage, and advances as much as it possibly can over the period. All the while, ISIS regards the disappearing air presence as weakness, lack of resolve (if not both).

    At the end of those two days, lives would of course have been lost which would've otherwise been safe, and at least relatively secure. Territory would've been taken that it might actually take weeks of bombing runs to reverse 'ownership' of ... costing how many MORE lives ?

    How much extra effort and resources would it take to reverse the damage done by forces taking a temporary 2 day hike ??!!?

    And consider: ISIS would in all probability regard the 2 day lull as evidence that hostages being beheaded DID have strategic value to them. How many more hostages would eventually die, Revelarts, as a direct consequence of your Leftie 'scruples' ... ??

    So you see, a Leftie approach is pure poison. Destructive in the extreme. I don't care how many other Lefties opt to support you in your thinking !!
    Last edited by Drummond; 11-13-2014 at 10:44 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  25. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    ... and Revelarts: let me offer you another answer !

    Consider ISIS, and the advances it's made (and still wants to make).

    Cue a 2-day cessation of air strikes -- because Lefties advocate it.

    Two days goes by. ISIS does its damndest to take advantage, and advances as much as it possibly can over the period. All the while, ISIS regards the disappearing air presence as weakness, lack of resolve (if not both).

    At the end of those two days, lives would of course have been lost which would've otherwise been safe, and at least relatively secure. Territory would've been taken that it might actually take weeks of bombing runs to reverse 'ownership' of ... costing how many MORE lives ?

    How much extra effort and resources would it take to reverse the damage done by forces taking a temporary 2 day hike ??!!?

    And consider: ISIS would in all probability regard the 2 day lull as evidence that hostages being beheaded DID have strategic value to them. How many more hostages would eventually die, Revelarts, as a direct consequence of your Leftie 'scruples' ... ??

    So you see, a Leftie approach is pure poison. Destructive in the extreme. I don't care how many other Lefties opt to support you in your thinking !!
    Drummond consider this, If we were to make an unannounced cessation of war activity on 1 day this month then another day next month the savings could be used to PAY to have more experienced men in uniform STAY ON THE JOB for 5 more years and pay their pensions in full. How much work would it take to replace the decades of experience loss in the field and in arrears if we decommission men because we say we say we can't pay them any longer? is that a solid goal Drummond? why do i have to explain this?! Are you going to pay them? Is England going to send us money to do so?

    Don't IMAGINE my "liberal Motives", my so-called "liberal agenda" or make up BS about what i REALLY MEAN, i've stated what i really mean. One solution to real one problem. Don't crazily extrapolate my issue specific comment into a some sinister agenda! Sorry to say that's BS Crazy talk Drummond.

    You seem MUCH more obsessed with fighting fantasy liberals and BOGGYMAN liberal polices than creating a sensible effort against the terrorist. Or treating our troops with real respect by making sure thay are getting paid and treated well. All the verbal respect and, RAH RAH US Mil, is nice but when they are homeless on the streets because with PTSD they can't keep a job and the VA isn't giving them SQUAT, all your respect to keep your imagined safety for 2 days won't mean jack.
    Last edited by revelarts; 11-13-2014 at 01:00 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Drummond consider this, If we were to make an unannounced cessation of war activity on 1 day this month then another day next month the savings could be used to PAY to have more experienced men in uniform STAY ON THE JOB for 5 more years and pay their pensions in full. is that a solid goal Drummond? don't IMAGINE my "liberal Motives" or make up BS about what i "REALLY MEAN" i've stated what i really mean.

    why do i have to explain this?!
    You seem MUCH more obsessed with fighting fantasy liberals and BOGGYMAN liberal polices than creating a sensible effort against the terrorist. Or treating our troops with real respect by making sure thay are getting paid and treated well. All the verbal respect and, RAH RAH US Mil, is nice but when they are homeless on the streets because with PSD they can't keep a job and the VA isn't giving them SQUAT all your respect to keep your imagined safety for 2 days won't mean jack.
    I'll give you this much. Spacing out your cessation of hostilities over such extended periods is definitely better than the other scenario I addressed.

    But even so ... YOU'RE STILL DOING TERRORISTS SOME FAVOURS, FAVOURS THEY'VE IN NO WAY EARNED.

    I ask why you're REALLY so keen to make life easier for them ? Easier than it would be otherwise ?

    Can you tell me why Lefties keep on doing this ? I'd really like to know !!!!

    And anyway, I suggest a tactical flaw to your latest proposal. If ISIS can't discern a pattern in any of that, and it so happened that lulls coincided with hostage beheadings ... how would THAT be perceived ?

    Perhaps a hostage beheading would stop such lulls in their tracks, force a rethink ? Or -- would it make not a jot of difference ? Would your determination to give terrorists their breaks actually be too great to involve consideration for the death of the hostage, and his/her family's feelings ?

    Regardless, giving ISIS terrorists any breaks at all, WILL be seen as weakness by those terrorists. You might never convince them that it was anything else ... in which case, you are still unacceptably endangering hostage lives to an extent that you wouldn't have been otherwise.

    I've nothing at all against your troops being paid well, or getting the utmost respect ... why WOULD I have ?? But, consider ... an emboldened enemy is one that'll be a WORSE enemy for your troops to fight ... harder to defeat, if the enemy's morale is boosted. Is that, Revelarts, your idea of doing your best for your people ???

    Give ISIS any breaks at all, and it'll profit THEM, to the detriment of YOUR forces (.. or any other Coalition forces that may ever be involved). Terrorists consider part of their war to be a propaganda war. I have no interest in helping them gain victories on ANY level, at all.

    But then - I'm not a Leftie ...
    Last edited by Drummond; 11-13-2014 at 01:28 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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