The Conservative Solution to... Pollution

[fj1200]

Go.

[Kathianne]

What type(s) of pollution are you referring to? Both air and water pollution have been improving. Are you addressing pollution like landfills?

[Anton Chigurh]

As opposed to the tax it, regulate it, demagogue it and lie about it and oh yeah tax it and spend even more and tax it some more "liberal" solution?

[fj1200]

What type(s) of pollution are you referring to? Both air and water pollution have been improving. Are you addressing pollution like landfills?

No particular type I suppose. I don't think landfills are pollution I guess.

As opposed to the tax it, regulate it, demagogue it and lie about it and oh yeah tax it and spend even more and tax it some more "liberal" solution?

Um, yes.

[Drummond]

Go.

... Yes, Sir !!! Immediately, Sir !!!

Anyway, to directly answer ... 'pollution' could mean a variety of things. It seems to me that the Conservative answer should be for individuals to be made as aware as possible not only of the nature of the problem, but what measures would ideally tackle it.

Consumer items creating that pollution should be discussed ... education provided as to how they pollute, to what extent, what needs to be done about them.

For the sake of individual choice, education via the media is surely the key. And, ideally, choice should be preserved and respected.

But in my part of the world, riddled as it is by bog-standard Leftieism having been ingrained in us over generations ... people are already primed to accept forms of taxation and banning orders as an answer. For landfill ... a rolling programme of a form of taxation is applied by charging people a price for items contributing. Currently true (definitely) in Wales, a nominal charge of 5 pence per bag is always charged and added to your shopping bill. England ... not yet charged, but plans are afoot to arrange it. It's only a matter of time before the English are likewise charged ... to encourage re-use of bags, cutting down on landfill wastage.

The EU is getting tough, in its Leftily dictatorial way. A series of edicts are being applied to member States to outlaw consumer items which consume more electricity than THEY feel they should. A limit on the maximum wattage of a vacuum cleaner has just been applied in the UK, banning the manufacture of 'offending' appliances .. once current stocks are sold, no more further 'illegally rated' ones can be legally delivered to outlets.

The EU has barely got started on that. They have a list of other items that'll be included in the coming year.

Incandescent light bulbs ? Here, supplies are dwindling. Their energy-efficient replacements are now MANDATED. Shops still selling old stocks are becoming few and far between.

That, folks, is the key difference - CHOICE. Under Leftieism, you get told what you MUST do, by the State, and you suffer if you disobey. Conservatives treat people with dignity and as adults. Choice exists. Responsibility for one's own life is expected.

[darin]

Dude - can I MAIL You some bulbs? Would "The Man" intercept a package containing a gift, from you to me?

[fj1200]

That, folks, is the key difference - CHOICE. Under Leftieism, you get told what you MUST do, by the State, and you suffer if you disobey. Conservatives treat people with dignity and as adults. Choice exists. Responsibility for one's own life is expected.

Disagree, it's not choice. Responsibility for one's own life is not the issue, the issue is what responsibility does an individual have for the property of others (or the community) that their choices cause. I think you were close though when discussing cost.

[Drummond]

Dude - can I MAIL You some bulbs? Would "The Man" intercept a package containing a gift, from you to me?

Thanks for the thought, much appreciated .. but your bulbs wouldn't be compatible with our power supply (... and most probably our Customs people would intercept the package and note its contents).

Yours in America, I think, is 110 volts, 60 cycles / second ? Ours is 230-250 volts (most typically 250 volts), 50 cycles / second. Any bulbs from the US I tried to use over here would probably last around 30 seconds before burning out. If they didn't explode first ? ...

[Drummond]

Disagree, it's not choice. Responsibility for one's own life is not the issue,

Why am I not surprised by your offering that answer, FJ ? Any ideas spring to mind ?

the issue is what responsibility does an individual have for the property of others (or the community) that their choices cause.

OK, accepted to a degree, since individual actions impinge on others. But only to a degree. Do you understand that your answer invites some form of 'adjudicating' power to intervene, and start laying down the law ?

I've a funny feeling that you do understand that well.

State dictators could insist that laws exist to compel standardisation of approach. Before you know it ... you've got a bunch of Lefties arbitrarily deciding - then insisting upon - what THEY say you MUST do.

Goodbye, individual responsibility. Hello, Nanny State (the EU fancies itself as one such). And, hello, the grabbing of powers which quickly grow uncontrollably.

No, I say that education is a more civilised and decent answer, with power still in the hands of the citizen. Before it's taken away.

Don't you agree, FJ ?

I think you were close though when discussing cost.

The cost of plastic bags ... a tax, INSISTED on, by Governments ? Yes ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

... Yes, Sir !!! Immediately, Sir !!!

Anyway, to directly answer ... 'pollution' could mean a variety of things. It seems to me that the Conservative answer should be for individuals to be made as aware as possible not only of the nature of the problem, but what measures would ideally tackle it.

Consumer items creating that pollution should be discussed ... education provided as to how they pollute, to what extent, what needs to be done about them.

For the sake of individual choice, education via the media is surely the key. And, ideally, choice should be preserved and respected.

But in my part of the world, riddled as it is by bog-standard Leftieism having been ingrained in us over generations ... people are already primed to accept forms of taxation and banning orders as an answer. For landfill ... a rolling programme of a form of taxation is applied by charging people a price for items contributing. Currently true (definitely) in Wales, a nominal charge of 5 pence per bag is always charged and added to your shopping bill. England ... not yet charged, but plans are afoot to arrange it. It's only a matter of time before the English are likewise charged ... to encourage re-use of bags, cutting down on landfill wastage.

The EU is getting tough, in its Leftily dictatorial way. A series of edicts are being applied to member States to outlaw consumer items which consume more electricity than THEY feel they should. A limit on the maximum wattage of a vacuum cleaner has just been applied in the UK, banning the manufacture of 'offending' appliances .. once current stocks are sold, no more further 'illegally rated' ones can be legally delivered to outlets.

The EU has barely got started on that. They have a list of other items that'll be included in the coming year.

Incandescent light bulbs ? Here, supplies are dwindling. Their energy-efficient replacements are now MANDATED. Shops still selling old stocks are becoming few and far between.

That, folks, is the key difference - CHOICE. Under Leftieism, you get told what you MUST do, by the State, and you suffer if you disobey. Conservatives treat people with dignity and as adults. Choice exists. Responsibility for one's own life is expected.

That, folks, is the key difference - CHOICE. Under Leftieism, you get told what you MUST do, by the State, and you suffer if you disobey. Conservatives treat people with dignity and as adults. Choice exists. Responsibility for one's own life is expected

^^And that is the icing on the cake my friend. The glaring difference and exactly why the Lefties/Liberals must be adamantly opposed.

And a rare day when I can correct a Brit on English language or spelling.
Correct spelling is Leftism , not Lefteism. -- ,
Now you citing me a few hundred times for similar error means nothing as I am just A SOUTHERN REDNECK HICK.
And wez no speakki da King's proper englesh ta start wid.. . --Tyr

[tailfins]

Disagree, it's not choice. Responsibility for one's own life is not the issue, the issue is what responsibility does an individual have for the property of others (or the community) that their choices cause. I think you were close though when discussing cost.

Does that mean you support Obama's war on coal? If you add $50 to the average monthly electric bill you are TAKING that family's property.

[Drummond]

^^And that is the icing on the cake my friend. The glaring difference and exactly why the Lefties/Liberals must be adamantly opposed.

And a rare day when I can correct a Brit on English language or spelling.
Correct spelling is Leftism , not Lefteism. -- ,
Now you citing me a few hundred times for similar error means nothing as I am just A SOUTHERN REDNECK HICK.
And wez no speakki da King's proper englesh ta start wid.. . --Tyr

Heh heh. Tyr, here, I think there's a difference between British and American usage. To be honest, both spellings look around equally acceptable to me.

Happy to be corrected, though ! I'm taking it that 'Leftism' is the accepted American usage. I'll defer to it -- 'when in Rome', & all that ...

[fj1200]

Why am I not surprised by your offering that answer, FJ ? Any ideas spring to mind ?

Because you seem to be lacking in understanding the issues.

^^And that is the icing on the cake my friend. The glaring difference and exactly why the Lefties/Liberals must be adamantly opposed.

Can we keep imaginatory musings out of it??? At least for now???

[fj1200]

Does that mean you support Obama's war on coal? If you add $50 to the average monthly electric bill you are TAKING that family's property.

No. But pretend that the emissions are harmful to an onerous extent; What is the conservative solution? Hint: Acid rain.

[fj1200]

OK, accepted to a degree, since individual actions impinge on others. But only to a degree. Do you understand that your answer invites some form of 'adjudicating' power to intervene, and start laying down the law ?

I've a funny feeling that you do understand that well.

State dictators could insist that laws exist to compel standardisation of approach. Before you know it ... you've got a bunch of Lefties arbitrarily deciding - then insisting upon - what THEY say you MUST do.

Goodbye, individual responsibility. Hello, Nanny State (the EU fancies itself as one such). And, hello, the grabbing of powers which quickly grow uncontrollably.

No, I say that education is a more civilised and decent answer, with power still in the hands of the citizen. Before it's taken away.

Don't you agree, FJ ?

The cost of plastic bags ... a tax, INSISTED on, by Governments ? Yes ?

You seem to be getting off track. The discussion is what is the conservative solution to pollution. Costs are not costs mandated by government but the economic, or other, costs of pollution; think negative externalities.

Why should you be given a choice on whether to violate my property rights?