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    Default 2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

    2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

    Quote:

    Wedged inside rocks in the deep sea off the coast of Western Australia lurks an organism that hasn't evolved in more than 2 billion years, scientists say.

    From this deep-sea location, a team of researchers collected fossilized sulfur bacteria that was 1.8 billion years old and compared it to bacteria that lived in the same region 2.3 billion years ago. Both sets of microbes were indistinguishable from modern sulfur bacteria found off the coast of Chile.

    But do the findings contradict Darwin's theory of evolution?

    "It seems astounding that [this] life has not evolved for more than 2 billion years — nearly half the history of the Earth," the study's leader, J. William Schopf, a paleobiologist at UCLA, said in a statement. "Given that evolution is a fact, this lack of evolution needs to be explained."

    Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection states that all species develop from heritable genetic changes that make an individual better able to survive in its environment and reproduce.

    So how can Darwin's theory account for these apparently nonchanging bacteria? The answer comes in looking at the bacteria's similarly stable surroundings. True, the deep-sea bacteria in this study haven't changed for eons, but neither has their environment, Schopf said. Darwin's theory doesn't call for organisms to evolve unless their environment changes, so the microbes' lack of evolution is consistent with the theory, Schopf added.

    To compare the fossils, Schopf and his colleagues used a method known as Raman spectroscopy to measure the composition and chemistry of the rocks. Then, using confocal laser scanning microscopy, they produced 3D images of the fossils and compared these visualizations with the modern bacteria. The ancient microbes looked identical to the present-day ones, the team found....

    2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

    one article on the discovery says
    "2-billion-year-old bacteria that hasn’t evolved is more evidence for evolution: scientists"


    soooo, NO Evolution is evidence FOR evolution? really? that's a double think item there.
    But it wouldn't be so bad if they would just be consistent.
    Because if they had found a mutated bacteria (bacteria changed into... well even just a slightly different bacteria over 2 billion years) it would have been hailed as CONCRETE evidence FOR evolution as well. Seems you can have it both ways in evolutionary "science".

    years ago Scientist in Antarctica discovered Lake Vostok. A lake as large as one of the great lakes. They believe it's been covered in ice 2+ miles thick for 15 MILLION years. completely cut off from surface contamination and earths atmosphere. Temps at the surface above the lake have been recorded at -89 degrees Celsius. the water has also been under extreme high pressures, the temps more like the moons of Jupiter.... and no sun light.... for "15 million years".

    around 2012 they finally drilled through very carefully to get samples from the lake.

    Many Scientist EXPECTED... PREDICTED... that either there would be nothing alive at all because of the harsh conditions. OR that because of the Isolation and the harsh conditions microbes would have evolved to adapt to the alien like environment.

    What'd they find?
    well bits of genes from microbes, bacteria some multicelled organisms.

    Some scientist scoffed saying Impossible they must be from contamination from the drilling. But they finally ruled that out.
    then they said well the said well those are fossils and fragments of DNA and RNA. but others quickly pointed out that Nooo, DNA and RNA CANNOT survive 15 million years. it's to fragile. (also applies to the Dino DNA found in the past few years, proves dinosaurs where living 30,000 or less years ago)

    So they have fresh samples of these creatures dna rna , so what are they.
    Well they categorized about 3500 different kinds and most are the same kinds we know of today, unchanged even though living in an isolated environment for "15 million" years. How many Hundreds of millions of generations of bacteria to you think have been born and died in that lake? MORE than enough to evolve something if it were going to happen. We're told Humans from apelings evolved in less than 5 million years, microbes supposedly need far less time.

    So the predictions of evolution were basically wrong.
    But the news story at top of post tells us that NO evolution for billions of years in the same environment is now evidence FOR evolution as well.

    "war is peace, freedom is slavery"
    can't have it both ways can you?


    Quote:
    ...They don't expect water samples from Lake Vostok will hold alien life, though any life it contains may have taken a slightly different evolutionary path than what appears on the planet today. That's because Lake Vostok, the deepest and most isolated of Antarctica's subglacial lakes, has been cut off from the atmosphere for at least 14 million years.

    The lakes, which were discovered via satellite imagery in the late 1990s, owe their existence to the thick Antarctic ice, which acts like a blanket to trap heat coming from inside Earth, keeping water liquid.

    "If they find evidence of life there — and I do think Lake Vostok has life in it — it's going to be Earth-like," astrobiologist Dale Andersen, with the SETI Institute's Carl Sagan Center for the Study of Life in the Universe, told Discovery News.

    "It's going to be the same kind of life you find everywhere else. It may be that life has evolved differently, but it's still Earth-like, still based on the same DNA structure," Andersen said.....

    Alien Life Clues in Antarctic Ice? : Discovery News


    Quote:
    After comparing the genetic material they found in Lake Vostok to a database of the known microbes on Earth, the biologists found a remarkable variety of critters. There were organisms known for living in salt water, fresh water, super-hot water and even in the guts and other body parts of tube worms, fish and other animals. There were low amounts of genetic material that appeared to come from animals such as a microscopic crustacean, a marine bivalve and a small sea anemone.

    Thousands Of Species Found In Lake Vostok Ice | Popular Science

    Quote:

    Over 3500 different species have been identified by a form of statistical analysis known as metagenomics. Basically, they sequenced all the genetic material in their samples at once, and used sophisticated analytical techniques to make sense of the resulting jumble of information. This technique has proven extremely useful in identifying species in an agricultural soil sample, for instance, but this is the first time its use has revealed a whole group of totally novel organisms.

    In heading off criticisms, the team addresses the idea that much of this material might be contamination or ancient life lying dead but preserved since the ice was laid down. It’s impossible that the DNA could have persisted this long as a fossil, they say, but it’s even more impossible that the RNA could have; DNA’s older, more fragile sibling constitutes the best of their evidence in favor of living communities in Lake Vostok, as its half-life is far too small to be some molecular window into the past.

    Most interesting is that the life they found is not entirely bacterial. Several hundred species of eukaryotic organisms also live in the water, including over 100 multicellular species.
    3,500+ species discovered in Lake Vostok, underneath miles of ice, in conditions similar to Jupiter’s Europa | ExtremeTech
    Last edited by revelarts; 02-14-2015 at 09:10 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

    Quote:

    Wedged inside rocks in the deep sea off the coast of Western Australia lurks an organism that hasn't evolved in more than 2 billion years, scientists say.

    From this deep-sea location, a team of researchers collected fossilized sulfur bacteria that was 1.8 billion years old and compared it to bacteria that lived in the same region 2.3 billion years ago. Both sets of microbes were indistinguishable from modern sulfur bacteria found off the coast of Chile.

    But do the findings contradict Darwin's theory of evolution?

    "It seems astounding that [this] life has not evolved for more than 2 billion years — nearly half the history of the Earth," the study's leader, J. William Schopf, a paleobiologist at UCLA, said in a statement. "Given that evolution is a fact, this lack of evolution needs to be explained."

    Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection states that all species develop from heritable genetic changes that make an individual better able to survive in its environment and reproduce.

    So how can Darwin's theory account for these apparently nonchanging bacteria? The answer comes in looking at the bacteria's similarly stable surroundings. True, the deep-sea bacteria in this study haven't changed for eons, but neither has their environment, Schopf said. Darwin's theory doesn't call for organisms to evolve unless their environment changes, so the microbes' lack of evolution is consistent with the theory, Schopf added.

    To compare the fossils, Schopf and his colleagues used a method known as Raman spectroscopy to measure the composition and chemistry of the rocks. Then, using confocal laser scanning microscopy, they produced 3D images of the fossils and compared these visualizations with the modern bacteria. The ancient microbes looked identical to the present-day ones, the team found....

    2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

    one article on the discovery says
    "2-billion-year-old bacteria that hasn’t evolved is more evidence for evolution: scientists"


    soooo, NO Evolution is evidence FOR evolution? really? that's a double think item there.
    But it wouldn't be so bad if they would just be consistent.
    Because if they had found a mutated bacteria (bacteria changed into... well even just a slightly different bacteria over 2 billion years) it would have been hailed as CONCRETE evidence FOR evolution as well. Seems you can have it both ways in evolutionary "science".

    years ago Scientist in Antarctica discovered Lake Vostok. A lake as large as one of the great lakes. They believe it's been covered in ice 2+ miles thick for 15 MILLION years. completely cut off from surface contamination and earths atmosphere. Temps at the surface above the lake have been recorded at -89 degrees Celsius. the water has also been under extreme high pressures, the temps more like the moons of Jupiter.... and no sun light.... for "15 million years".

    around 2012 they finally drilled through very carefully to get samples from the lake.

    Many Scientist EXPECTED... PREDICTED... that either there would be nothing alive at all because of the harsh conditions. OR that because of the Isolation and the harsh conditions microbes would have evolved to adapt to the alien like environment.

    What'd they find?
    well bits of genes from microbes, bacteria some multicelled organisms.

    Some scientist scoffed saying Impossible they must be from contamination from the drilling. But they finally ruled that out.
    then they said well the said well those are fossils and fragments of DNA and RNA. but others quickly pointed out that Nooo, DNA and RNA CANNOT survive 15 million years. it's to fragile. (also applies to the Dino DNA found in the past few years, proves dinosaurs where living 30,000 or less years ago)

    So they have fresh samples of these creatures dna rna , so what are they.
    Well they categorized about 3500 different kinds and most are the same kinds we know of today, unchanged even though living in an isolated environment for "15 million" years. How many Hundreds of millions of generations of bacteria to you think have been born and died in that lake? MORE than enough to evolve something if it were going to happen. We're told Humans from apelings evolved in less than 5 million years, microbes supposedly need far less time.

    So the predictions of evolution were basically wrong.
    But the news story at top of post tells us that NO evolution for billions of years in the same environment is now evidence FOR evolution as well.

    "war is peace, freedom is slavery"
    can't have it both ways can you?


    Quote:
    ...They don't expect water samples from Lake Vostok will hold alien life, though any life it contains may have taken a slightly different evolutionary path than what appears on the planet today. That's because Lake Vostok, the deepest and most isolated of Antarctica's subglacial lakes, has been cut off from the atmosphere for at least 14 million years.

    The lakes, which were discovered via satellite imagery in the late 1990s, owe their existence to the thick Antarctic ice, which acts like a blanket to trap heat coming from inside Earth, keeping water liquid.

    "If they find evidence of life there — and I do think Lake Vostok has life in it — it's going to be Earth-like," astrobiologist Dale Andersen, with the SETI Institute's Carl Sagan Center for the Study of Life in the Universe, told Discovery News.

    "It's going to be the same kind of life you find everywhere else. It may be that life has evolved differently, but it's still Earth-like, still based on the same DNA structure," Andersen said.....

    Alien Life Clues in Antarctic Ice? : Discovery News


    Quote:
    After comparing the genetic material they found in Lake Vostok to a database of the known microbes on Earth, the biologists found a remarkable variety of critters. There were organisms known for living in salt water, fresh water, super-hot water and even in the guts and other body parts of tube worms, fish and other animals. There were low amounts of genetic material that appeared to come from animals such as a microscopic crustacean, a marine bivalve and a small sea anemone.

    Thousands Of Species Found In Lake Vostok Ice | Popular Science

    Quote:



    3,500+ species discovered in Lake Vostok, underneath miles of ice, in conditions similar to Jupiter’s Europa | ExtremeTech
    Same double think loons use the exact same stupidity to justify the global warming scam.
    The world is are up with such mad, raving fooooooools!!!!!
    These idiots want to have their damn cake and eat it too!!!
    Reality proves they are liars, deluded and indeed crazy but then again look at the gullible under educated masses they are manipulating by using this method of insanity and subterfuge!
    All the while stirring up pure righteous contempt and anger from we not so stupid as to believe all that lying tripe!

    If such simple organisms did not change in 2 billion years why and how did other organisms do so??? What got me always was any catalyst they vaguely mentioned to justify the need for change had to be so paramount to its survival that in millions/billions of years the changing entity would have died out. They never explain how the need for change(catalyst) which had to be great allowed for such eons of time and how the entity thus survived if the catalyst was that great.
    Evolution is pure bunk.. Now they recently scream BIG BANG IS WRONG !
    Well hell, I knew that back in 1967 at age 13.....
    These people espouse theories that they like(serve a political purpose) as if they are solid fact, when they are far from it..--Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Evolution does not assert that everything keeps changing and evolving. Everything changes and involves as needed. To better procreate. Bacteria never had any problems reproducing or surviving.
    Last edited by Anton Chigurh; 02-14-2015 at 04:30 PM.
    ‎'Is there anything wrong with anything.' Is that what you're asking, friendo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton Chigurh View Post
    Evolution does not assert that everything keeps changing and evolving. Everything changes and involves as needed. To better procreate. Bacteria never had any problems reproducing or surviving.
    Ok that's fine AC,
    but showing CHANGE is the only evidence for evolution, not the opposite.

    Darwinist have known since they 1st asserted evolution that there are many things like Horseshoe Crabs, insects and many other creatures that have not changed from the beginning of their appearance in the fossil record 250-800 "million" years ago.
    At that time they had to accommodate that fact into their "theory", so to claim it now as evidence for evolution is BS.

    And finding living bacteria the same as 2 "billion" years old versions shows the robustness of DNA and genetic stasis. the fact that genes don't mutate even with long stretches of time is a blow against the concept of pliability of genes in general.
    Last edited by revelarts; 02-14-2015 at 06:57 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Ok that's fine AC,
    but showing CHANGE is the only evidence for evolution, not the opposite.

    Darwinist have known since they 1st asserted evolution that there are many things like Horseshoe Crabs, insects and many other creatures that have not changed from the beginning of their appearance in the fossil record 250-800 "million" years ago.
    At that time they had to accommodate that fact into their "theory", so to claim it now as evidence for evolution is BS.

    And finding living bacteria the same as 2 "billion" years old versions shows the robustness of DNA and genetic stasis. the fact that genes don't mutate even with long stretches of time is a blow against the concept of pliability of genes in general.

    Back then people were not as gullible as millions now are. So they did not claim back then that which looked to disprove Evolution as a factor in it being a valid theory.

    What they have never explained is how species that were sent towards change by any catalyst thus had millions of years to effect that great change! For in their theory it was about survival and why change if it is so minor that millions(or even hundreds of thousands) of years the species can survive without that change!??

    No sir, the logic and reality denies so much of their premise. Faith in the magic of "eons of time" SERVES THAT PURPOSE.- --Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    As the article states; with a stable environment and nutrient supply(sulfates & nitrates) this simple Sulfur bacteria has no further need to evolve. Change either and it will. Does this make me gullible and uneducated to believe this as one poster suggests, maybe? Or maybe it's my dozen years in my micro lab transforming different bacteria to into useful tools?


    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundaydriver View Post
    As the article states; with a stable environment and nutrient supply(sulfates & nitrates) this simple Sulfur bacteria has no further need to evolve. Change either and it will. Does this make me gullible and uneducated to believe this as one poster suggests, maybe? Or maybe it's my dozen years in my micro lab transforming different bacteria to into useful tools?

    as i stated, they claim it as "evidence for" evolution when it's something everyone knew and observed and predicted before evolution was ever proposed. And that known fact of -stasis over long periods- had to be acknowledged within the theory of evolution when it was proposed. so it's, ummm, disingenuous to claim it as "evidence". Especially when in other cases they do in fact predict evolution/change in isolated stable environments. stable for 15 "million" years in fact.

    so call it gullibility if you like. whatever the case it's a snow job.

    Like "predicting" that the sun generally rotates on it's axis in some new theory called "Solar Stillness". where the main point of the theory is that the sun literally stops it's rotation from time to time and becomes totally still.
    Those who get new more precise measurements of the sun's rotation are not finding an evidence for "Solar Stillness". "See we told you the sun rotates!"

    If you or others are impressed by that prediction then gullible might be a word to use, brainwashed might be another. Consumed by the popular "scientific" paradigm so that we don't examine it critically is one i'd support for most folks.

    ..
    ..
    and sundaydriver, I'd like to hear the outlines of your processes in changing bacteria.
    And the types and range of changes.
    Last edited by revelarts; 02-15-2015 at 08:30 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    This little bacteria had probably 900 millions years to evolve to the state it has been for the past 2.3 billion years. It's as perfect as it needs to be due to limited nutrients, entombed inside rocks, and no change in conditions to affect it further. It already has all it needs.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell

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    evolution does not arise from need anyway, it's a passive process. sometimes the mutations help, sometimes they hurt. more drivel from revelarts who is desperate to convince a few internet trolls that fact is fiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    evolution does not arise from need anyway, it's a passive process. sometimes the mutations help, sometimes they hurt. ....
    SO Pete ,lets assume you are right,
    you're saying "evolution does not arise from need anyway, it's a passive process." meaning it just happens.
    so to find a "2 billion" year old bacteria IS odd by your evolutionary standards, even if the environment hasn't changed since evolution is "PASSIVE". the environment is NOT the main or only factor. You seem to be saying there should have been some evolution -helpful or harmful- over 2 billion years.

    However the scientist who made the discovery say YOU are wrong, that Darwin "predicts"() that some things DO NOT CHANGE AT ALL if the environment doesn't change. That enviro pressures are the key evolutionary factor. But scientist looking at the lake in Antarctica say you're right and predicted based on Darwin's theory that mutations should occur in a stable closed environment.

    so which is it?
    If it's Both then it predicts NOTHING because it predicts EVERYTHING.

    ---Evolution happens you fools, look that thing changed slightly that's hard evidence of major change!!!
    and look here that thing didn't change at all over billions of years that proves evolution too you fools!!!---

    yeah ok, the Sun came up today that'sevidence for evolution too i guess.
    But if evolution is not falsifiable then it's not a serious scientific theory, it's just a tautology proving everything, full of 'just so stories'.
    Last edited by revelarts; 02-23-2015 at 10:47 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    an 21, 2015A rare frilled shark, whose species dates back 80 million years,
    was caught in a fishing trawler off Australia's coast.



    "It's a freaky thing," Simon Boag, the chief executive officer at South East Trawl Fishing Association, told Australia's ABC Rural. "I don't think you would want to show it to little children before they went to bed."
    The association said the frilled shark is often referred to as a "living fossil." It is described as having an eel-like body with three fins on its back. It gets its name from the six pairs of gill slits that give it a fringed appearance.
    The sea creature (taxonomically known as Chlamydoselachus anguineus and referred to by some as a "living fossil") is indeed real, an eel-like shark whose ancestry dates back <nobr>80 million</nobr> years.
    Read more at http://www.snopes.com/info/news/fril...yUOAcXYRCAl.99
    more evidence for evolution sharks that don't change for 80 million years ... because the ocean environment hasn't changed in 80 million years right?


    An international team of researchers has decoded the genome of the African coelacanth. The species was once thought to be extinct, but a living coelacanth was discovered off the African coast in 1938. Coelacanths today closely resemble the fossilized skeletons of their more than 300-million-year-old ancestors.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0417131809.htm
    Fish 300 million years ... because the ocean environment hasn't changed in 300 million years right?


    Horse Shoe Crabs are seen in the fossil record 450 million years ago...Also known as the comb jelly, ctenophores first emerged 700 million years ago. They look like striped jelly blobs that flit through the sea propelled by rows of cilia. Biologists say these are the oldest known animals...
    Crab & jelly Fish like thing 450 and 700 million years ... because the ocean environment hasn't changed in 300 million years right?

    the sharks and fish live in the deep sea and the ctenophores and horseshoe crabs live in the shallows but the neither environment has changed enough for the "need" to evolve. and nothing in them passively compelled change harmful or helpful.
    That's it's evidence for something, but not evolution it'd seem to me.

    And here's something else. If we "1st see" these SAME fossil animals so long ago wouldn't that mean that they had to evolve into that over some time. we're told the Cambrian explosion took place apx 500 million years ago where the basic body styles of animals just SHOW UP without any ancestry.

    Darwin even admitted along this line,
    “Why then is not every geological formation and every strata full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against my theory.”
    Charles Darwin
    Last edited by revelarts; 02-23-2015 at 11:37 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    evolution does not arise from need anyway, it's a passive process.

    Translation: Evolution MAGICALLY happened. just mystical or pure random chance. It's all somehow going on without any sense of need or purpose. We're "lucky" it's happened because I cannot bring myself to accept something that makes more sense.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    you're saying "evolution does not arise from need anyway, it's a passive process." meaning it just happens.
    so to find a "2 billion" year old bacteria IS odd by your evolutionary standards, even if the environment hasn't changed since evolution is "PASSIVE". the environment is NOT the main or only factor. You seem to be saying there should have been some evolution -helpful or harmful- over 2 billion years.

    However the scientist who made the discovery say YOU are wrong
    What the scientists basically did was look at two pieces of shit. They were both brown and the same size. Must be the same. If they tested the genetics they'd be different. Of course, you'd be disappointed unless the newer bacteria had a head or something. That is your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    more evidence for evolution sharks that don't change for 80 million years ... because the ocean environment hasn't changed in 80 million years right?

    Fish 300 million years ... because the ocean environment hasn't changed in 300 million years right?

    And here's something else. If we "1st see" these SAME fossil animals so long ago wouldn't that mean that they had to evolve into that over some time. we're told the Cambrian explosion took place apx 500 million years ago where the basic body styles of animals just SHOW UP without any ancestry.

    Darwin even admitted along this line,
    “Why then is not every geological formation and every strata full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against my theory.”
    Charles Darwin
    I don't understand your point in listing old creatures. They are genetically different even if they look the same. There was little environmental stress, so there will be little change, but still change. Again you somehow seem to think all creatures will turn into something radically different. I still don't believe you've ever picked up a biology book. Not sure what your fear is.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Translation: Evolution MAGICALLY happened. just mystical or pure random chance. It's all somehow going on without any sense of need or purpose. We're "lucky" it's happened because I cannot bring myself to accept something that makes more sense.
    Magic? No. Just mutations over time and sometimes the advantageous mutations manage to replicate. Why is that so hard to accept. History is full of failed species. God and evolution are not at war. Only your tiny version of God is. That is a personal problem. Even the Pope has declared it. Time to break away from the cro-magnon side.
    Last edited by pete311; 02-24-2015 at 01:03 AM.

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    "Hi! I'm Pete and I believe 'mutations' magically happened over time to lead to the life we see today! No, I can't explain how a non-blood cell first 'mutated' into a blood cell - and why it was that cell was beneficial-enough to hang around waiting for ANOTHER cell to magically - oops! I mean...'by random chance' mutate into the cells making up veins...then the blood cell and the vein cell just sorta hung out - maybe divided and created more of themselves - but those things hanging around for millions of years were completely and somehow beneficial-enough until a few other cells "mutated" into heart cells...and so on."


    Pete. For seemingly a smart dude, your refusal to accept the MOST-Likely causes because of your ideogology mystifies me. It's like you walking out to your driveway and trying to convince your neighbors your car simply evolved into a car after millions of years of all the ingredients floating around the world. It’s a wonder we don't randomly find complete cakes on grocery store shelves.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    evolution does not arise from need anyway, it's a passive process. sometimes the mutations help, sometimes they hurt. more drivel from revelarts who is desperate to convince a few internet trolls that fact is fiction
    Well that's odd. I don't see any drivel, nor any trolls, unless when reading your posts. YOU are the one who is very rarely here, and then pops in out of nowhere to this thread, and then starts with the "drivel" and trolls crap. Sounds to me like what you just did was the very definition of trolling. Or perhaps YOU are trying to convince the uneducated out there that your opinions are somehow fact?
    I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat…You ask, what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea, and air. War with all our might and with all the strength God has given us, and to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs - Victory in spite of all terrors - Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival.
    Winston Churchill

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