Don't like cops?

[jimnyc]

Saw this on FB. I see so many people today that jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police, and never a single good thing to say as they save lives on a daily basis. Accusations daily, never a thank you. I think the folks that despise them so much - they should lose the phone numbers and don't call the people they despise when they are in trouble. Make a list of the poor poor folks who are "harassed" and call them when you're in trouble, have someone breaking in your house or any other emergency. Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people.

[Jeff]

Jim when you have a president that spends his days trying to stir the racism pot it eventually has to turn to the police, and yes it has done just that. So every idiot that follows the idiot in charge now hates the police ( not that they didn't always, the cops tend to get in the way of their night jobs ) But the president, DOJ and even many preachers have now made it cool to hate the police. Funny thing is most of the people that are doing the hating live in the most crime ridden part of town, I say let them police it themselves, that will sure enough save many a cops from being assaulted or worse, and then we wont have the nice folks that want to scream about police brutality ( after they rob a store ) Problem solved all the way around.

[PixieStix]

Jim when you have a president that spends his days trying to stir the racism pot it eventually has to turn to the police, and yes it has done just that. So every idiot that follows the idiot in charge now hates the police ( not that they didn't always, the cops tend to get in the way of their night jobs ) But the president, DOJ and even many preachers have now made it cool to hate the police. Funny thing is most of the people that are doing the hating live in the most crime ridden part of town, I say let them police it themselves, that will sure enough save many a cops from being assaulted or worse, and then we wont have the nice folks that want to scream about police brutality ( after they rob a store ) Problem solved all the way around.

[revelarts]

Saw this on FB. I see so many people today that jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police, and never a single good thing to say as they save lives on a daily basis. Accusations daily, never a thank you. I think the folks that despise them so much - they should lose the phone numbers and don't call the people they despise when they are in trouble. Make a list of the poor poor folks who are "harassed" and call them when you're in trouble, have someone breaking in your house or any other emergency. Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people.

If we go to restaurant and find the cooks cooking well should i be surprised?
Should we thank them every time?
If we go to a restaurant and find the cooks burn the meals there regularly, should we complain and let others know or defend the cooking profession?
Do we attack those who complain about bad cooks? "well why don't you get the bum on the corner to cook your restaurant food? huh?"(the previous quote marks indicate a made up quote and does not imply anyone on DP wrote that sentence.)
And do we need to point out that professional cooks generally do a decent job?
Do we assume that the complainers "despise" cooks in general?
If we find that the restaurants are allowing cooks to who burn food regularly to stay on, and are promoted to head cook and new cooks coming to the restaurant are told to burn as the head cook does not cook the way they were trained to do.
Does pointing that out mean that you HATE cooks?
Sure many/most professional cooks do a good to great job.
And If the cooks don't burn the signature meals and gives meals for free to shut ins should that be praised. of course. does it make up for all the burnt food? nope.

[revelarts]

Saw this on FB. I see so many people today that jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police, and never a single good thing to say as they save lives on a daily basis. Accusations daily, never a thank you. I think the folks that despise them so much - they should lose the phone numbers and don't call the people they despise when they are in trouble. Make a list of the poor poor folks who are "harassed" and call them when you're in trouble, have someone breaking in your house or any other emergency. Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people.

there's not a problem with most people not "liking" police Jim
the problem is in your view in mainly 2 places.

1st you SEEM TO take any criticism of police as evidence of bad motives.
"... many people today ... jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police... Accusations daily, never a thank you... I think the folks that despise them so much"

You assume that every real complaint and pointing out of many... any real crimes by police as only as a pass time or simply smear the police as a WHOLE because of they "despise" police. and you assume they've "never" said or say thank you. And some others just don't take those thanks seriously. Because for some reason it's just wrong to accuse the police of anything.

2nd you SEEM TO not want to look at specific police dept or police facts and want to everyone to live off of police LEGEND or PR. and want people to be deferential to police for doing the needed and noble jobs they volunteered and trained for. and you SEEM TO refuse to consider that some law enforcement practices and cultures are bad in themselves.

"...Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people...."

you assume that IN general it's a small number.
without looking at or pointing to specific city Depts or areas.

Some of the news and books noted about the issue of patterns that show that some whole Depts culture and policies are bad, criminal or unconstitutional. Does it mean they don't ALSO catch real bad guys? NO.
But it doesn't mean we should pretend like children that a specific police dept are mainly noble and self-sacrificing?

The main people upset with the complaints seems to be people who don't like their fairy tale version of police as heroes disfigured. And in response try to paint those who complain into bad guys rather than honestly consider the real and yes sometimes systematic corruption with policing.

[jimnyc]

If we go to restaurant and find the cooks cooking well should i be surprised?
Should we thank them every time?
If we go to a restaurant and find the cooks burn the meals there regularly, should we complain and let others know or defend the cooking profession?
Do we attack those who complain about bad cooks? "well why don't you get the bum on the corner to cook your restaurant food? huh?"(the previous quote marks indicate a made up quote and does not imply anyone on DP wrote that sentence.)
And do we need to point out that professional cooks generally do a decent job?
Do we assume that the complainers "despise" cooks in general?
If we find that the restaurants are allowing cooks to who burn food regularly to stay on, and are promoted to head cook and new cooks coming to the restaurant are told to burn as the head cook does not cook the way they were trained to do.
Does pointing that out mean that you HATE cooks?
Sure many/most professional cooks do a good to great job.
And If the cooks don't burn the signature meals and gives meals for free to shut ins should that be praised. of course. does it make up for all the burnt food? nope.

If a horrible cook I would complain. and I always tip if a good cook and might even give a review on Yelp. At any rate, my point is that there are a lot of folks out there who only want to complain about the police, but usually don't have anything to say when good things happen and they literally save lives, which is daily.

there's not a problem with most people not "liking" police Jim
the problem is in your view in mainly 2 places.

1st you SEEM TO take any criticism of police as evidence of bad motives.
"... many people today ... jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police... Accusations daily, never a thank you... I think the folks that despise them so much"

You assume that every real complaint and pointing out of many... any real crimes by police as only as a pass time or simply smear the police as a WHOLE because of they "despise" police. and you assume they've "never" said or say thank you. And some others just don't take those thanks seriously. Because for some reason it's just wrong to accuse the police of anything.

2nd you SEEM TO not want to look at specific police dept or police facts and want to everyone to live off of police LEGEND or PR. and want people to be deferential to police for doing the needed and noble jobs they volunteered and trained for. and you SEEM TO refuse to consider that some law enforcement practices and cultures are bad in themselves.

you assume that IN general it's a small number.
without looking at or pointing to specific city Depts or areas.

Some of the news and books noted about the issue of patterns that show that some whole Depts culture and policies are bad, criminal or unconstitutional. Does it mean they don't ALSO catch real bad guys? NO.
But it doesn't mean we should pretend like children that a specific police dept are mainly noble and self-sacrificing?

The main people upset with the complaints seems to be people who don't like their fairy tale version of police as heroes disfigured. And in response try to paint those who complain into bad guys rather than honestly consider the real and yes sometimes systematic corruption with policing.

None of that changes my view - that there are far too many people out there today who want to make a career out of pointing out or claiming the police are bad. And YES, I would expect folks to point out and acknowledge when the good things often happen. If one is going to sit back and be a judge - then they should have ALL of the facts.

[darin]

I love cops. I hate the laws of the land. I hate Cops and other government officials lying to the population as means of stealing more income from the citizens. I hate the leaders of police agencies with their political ties. I hate how cops are asked to enforce the laws that generate the most revenue for the government - NOT the laws that keep us safe. I hate that there are so many laws. I hate when Cops and other officials control the movement of citizens "for their own safety" - as if that's reason-enough to justify fascism or totalitarian rule - even if temporary.

Police cannot keep society safe because society is chock-full of assholes.

Next time you're in trouble? Shoot your way out of it and hope to GOD some scumbag DA doesn't send you to jail for the rest of your life, followed by a civil suit from the piece of shits family of the piece of shit who tried to harm you in the first place.

[revelarts]

If a horrible cook I would complain. and I always tip if a good cook and might even give a review on Yelp. At any rate, my point is that there are a lot of folks out there who only want to complain about the police, but usually don't have anything to say when good things happen and they literally save lives, which is daily.



None of that changes my view - that there are far too many people out there today who want to make a career out of pointing out or claiming the police are bad. And YES, I would expect folks to point out and acknowledge when the good things often happen. If one is going to sit back and be a judge - then they should have ALL of the facts.

Could you name some of these people that "never" say thank you that are such a horrible problem for you?
you say you want people to have "all of the facts" before they sit back and voice judgement.
Do the cops sighted in many of the reports have "all of the facts" before they judge on the spot?

But you have a right to your opinion,
and none of what you've said changes my view that innocent people falsely beaten, arrested, jailed, maimed, and killed by bad police deserves every complaint. Even if it makes some good cops "look bad". A good cop would understand bit of loss of reputation is worth it to get the "bad apples" exposed and bad systems corrected.

And in general bad policing causes me more outrage than the unnamed people who complain too much for your taste and somehow besmirch "all" cops everywhere and "never" say "thank you".

[avatar4321]

I like police. I just I Hate corrupt ones on power trips.

And I tend not to call them anyway. I can govern myself and solve my own problems most of the time

[jimnyc]

Could you name some of these people that "never" say thank you that are such a horrible problem for you?

I never said these people were a horrible problem for me. I just figure if some hate cops so much, they shouldn't call them when they need them. For example, there were many schmucks in Ferguson that threw rocks at the police, shot at them and such. I hope the next time someone breaks into their houses and their lives are in danger - they should call their partners in crime for help.

And I don't think usernames from other forums, news stories and real life people are something I should be sharing here. But no doubt there are many that fit under this umbrella.

you say you want people to have "all of the facts" before they sit back and voice judgement.
Do the cops sighted in many of the reports have "all of the facts" before they judge on the spot?

That's what we have courts for. A cops job is to assess a situation, based on the facts available at the time. For example, in another thread of recent, folks refusing to give ID within legal stops, acting like lawyers and such when they legally should be forking over ID. A cop doesn't need to know all the facts, or why a dummy would do this, he is within his rights to arrest at that moment. The idiot is free to give additional facts and fight his case in front of a judge.

But you have a right to your opinion,
and none of what you've said changes my view that innocent people falsely beaten, arrested, jailed, maimed, and killed by bad police deserves every complaint. Even if it makes some good cops "look bad". A good cop would understand bit of loss of reputation is worth it to get the "bad apples" exposed and bad systems corrected.

I know there's many issues with the police, never stated otherwise. But NO WAY in hell do I state that it's ok for some police to be defamed, simply to make another guilty person look bad. That's simply not how it works. And that's similar to what I'm talking about - beat the police at all costs, complain at all costs, even if it costs the innocent folks their jobs or reputations. So much for wanting those pesky facts!!

And in general bad policing causes me more outrage than the unnamed people who complain too much for your taste and somehow besmirch "all" cops everywhere and "never" say "thank you".

Bad policing is something that many of us share outrage about. But it doesn't make me want to libel/slander ALL police as a result. The man who saves 2 lives in a day is someone worthy of recognition to me. No different than a bad soldier, one who may have shot up a small village of innocents. Definitely deserving of scorn, and of course criminal charges - but sure as fuck wouldn't make me want to ignore other soldiers, or make them "look bad" simply because another soldier went off the edge.

[indago]

I never said these people were a horrible problem for me. I just figure if some hate cops so much, they shouldn't call them when they need them. For example, there were many schmucks in Ferguson that threw rocks at the police, shot at them and such. I hope the next time someone breaks into their houses and their lives are in danger - they should call their partners in crime for help.

They have this in a lot of places now: they're called gangs...

[gabosaurus]

There are some bad cops. Just like there are bad, dishonest people in every profession. There are bad members of the military. None of this should taint the group as a whole.
If you dislike the laws of the land, work to change them.
The true idiots are the people who feel certain laws don't apply to them. Not the police who enforce them.

We were driving the speed limit on the 405 last week and a vehicle began to tailgate us. When it got the chance, it went around and then cut us off rather sharply. The driver then threw a can out his window, presumably attempting to hit us. My daughter got the license plate and called the police.
Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine.

[revelarts]

I wanted to share a small story. I'm sure some think I believe the police can do no wrong, and I never hold them accountable. Truth is, I dislike the bad eggs as much as the next guy. I'm just of the belief that they represent a severe minority. But even then, I hope they all get what's coming to them.

In the late 80's a friend and I were leaving NYC and went through the Holland Tunnel and came out on the NJ side. The cops were profiling I'm sure. I was a long haired hippy with tattoos, driving a piece of crap car. My friend was basically a skinhead, bald with tattoos, Doc Martens...

They pulled us into a gas station on the main road. Damn cop had me and my friend drop our pants AND undies to our knees to investigate!! Now mind you, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of cars passing every minute. Were we guilty? Yes siree! We had a dime bag or marijuana and a rolled joint. We were arrested and brought to the Port Authority police department a few blocks away. Booked and released. Asked the same cop about the car and personal property and was promptly shoved in the hallway and hit my head on a pipe. Not a huge deal, but enough to leave a bump. The car was kept, and of course compiled daily charges in the impound yard.

I called and complained about the exact issues. Apparently this wasn't the officers first rodeo and he had done similar. They immediately sent someone out and investigated the bump. Investigated cameras at the gas station and such. At court, they made a deal with me. If I signed a waiver to agree not to sue the department... all charges were dropped and the vehicle was returned without any charges.

I was wrong, no doubt about that. But I still had to deal with a bad egg fucking with me. Also, Jeff will vouch for some of the vehicles I started driving when younger. First I bought from him a beat up puke green van. Then I had a $20 Dodge dart... add in the long hair and tattoos - needless to say I was profiled quite a bit.

thanks for sharing your story Jim.
couple things that stand out to me.
I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt and had a way out. But that cop was back on road to harass more people. And you say it wasn'tt his 1st time. But the dept and court still wanted to cover for him so you got a deal.


long hair, tattoos, pot mobile, young, So cops saw you and you were profiled, they were right that time and you were busted.
OK
the thing is you can shave your hair and drive different car, and you can avoid the profile.
You can't change your skin.
Indigo posted a link to a 57 yr old black guy in a new Cadillac pulled from his car and beaten after leaving a bad neighborhood. I've been pulled over by a cop who pulled the passenger door open at night. In the dark he thought my daughter and I were 2 young males and "moved to much" as he approched to tell me about an out of date vehicle sticker.

My brother has had police guns pointed at him twice while in a car doing nothing wrong. Once because the car "looked like" one they were searching for and once because he an officer screamed "GUN" as my brother was following anothers officers order to unbuckle his seat belt and get his ID. thankfully nothing more happened and he came home. he'd been stopped several other times as well.

I know a Nigerian family where the wife, in her 40's, was pulled over in their own upper middle-class neighborhood once or twice a month, often the same cop. She was never charged with anything. Her white neighbors never had a problem.

I mean do people get complain about this? None of the above was ever brought to the news or even to police for complaints. But knowledge of this kind of stuff is part of the air throughout black culture. We all know of and have experienced it. so when people tell us that we should just "be thankful". And that police should alway be respected. Look, the experience is different. We thank God for good cops and sometimes complain about bad ones. But there's no Pollyanna view of police in general. Black's know police are JUST human and pray for a good one every time we encounter them.

And Complaints about police don't mean people hate police. Any more than complaints about your brother/sister or co-workers means that you hate them. Even though you do want them them to change some of their ways.

[aboutime]

Simple answer to everyone on this topic. Please tell all of us about anyone you know who is PERFECT?

Other than the standard cop-out (pardon the pun) of God, or Jesus.

Human beings are not perfect. Which is why we have Human Beings who become Police officers, and member of our Military.

Anyone dispute that?

[revelarts]

Simple answer to everyone on this topic. Please tell all of us about anyone you know who is PERFECT?
Other than the standard cop-out (pardon the pun) of God, or Jesus.
Human beings are not perfect. Which is why we have Human Beings who become Police officers, and member of our Military.

Exactly police are human beings.
And police departments are human organizations with various cultures.
And police policies written and unwritten are man made.

And just like any human orgs/cultures/polices things can/should be improved.
But that can only happen if we are honest enough to allow it to be critiqued, and flaws pointed out.

Doesn't mean you despise the org.
Just that you want it to be the best it can be.
And the negative aspects exposed and removed as much as possible.

Does no good to pretend it's NEAR perfect when it's not.