Don't like cops?

[jimnyc]

Saw this on FB. I see so many people today that jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police, and never a single good thing to say as they save lives on a daily basis. Accusations daily, never a thank you. I think the folks that despise them so much - they should lose the phone numbers and don't call the people they despise when they are in trouble. Make a list of the poor poor folks who are "harassed" and call them when you're in trouble, have someone breaking in your house or any other emergency. Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people.

[Jeff]

Jim when you have a president that spends his days trying to stir the racism pot it eventually has to turn to the police, and yes it has done just that. So every idiot that follows the idiot in charge now hates the police ( not that they didn't always, the cops tend to get in the way of their night jobs ) But the president, DOJ and even many preachers have now made it cool to hate the police. Funny thing is most of the people that are doing the hating live in the most crime ridden part of town, I say let them police it themselves, that will sure enough save many a cops from being assaulted or worse, and then we wont have the nice folks that want to scream about police brutality ( after they rob a store ) Problem solved all the way around.

[revelarts]

Saw this on FB. I see so many people today that jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police, and never a single good thing to say as they save lives on a daily basis. Accusations daily, never a thank you. I think the folks that despise them so much - they should lose the phone numbers and don't call the people they despise when they are in trouble. Make a list of the poor poor folks who are "harassed" and call them when you're in trouble, have someone breaking in your house or any other emergency. Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people.

If we go to restaurant and find the cooks cooking well should i be surprised?
Should we thank them every time?
If we go to a restaurant and find the cooks burn the meals there regularly, should we complain and let others know or defend the cooking profession?
Do we attack those who complain about bad cooks? "well why don't you get the bum on the corner to cook your restaurant food? huh?"(the previous quote marks indicate a made up quote and does not imply anyone on DP wrote that sentence.)
And do we need to point out that professional cooks generally do a decent job?
Do we assume that the complainers "despise" cooks in general?
If we find that the restaurants are allowing cooks to who burn food regularly to stay on, and are promoted to head cook and new cooks coming to the restaurant are told to burn as the head cook does not cook the way they were trained to do.
Does pointing that out mean that you HATE cooks?
Sure many/most professional cooks do a good to great job.
And If the cooks don't burn the signature meals and gives meals for free to shut ins should that be praised. of course. does it make up for all the burnt food? nope.

[revelarts]

Saw this on FB. I see so many people today that jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police, and never a single good thing to say as they save lives on a daily basis. Accusations daily, never a thank you. I think the folks that despise them so much - they should lose the phone numbers and don't call the people they despise when they are in trouble. Make a list of the poor poor folks who are "harassed" and call them when you're in trouble, have someone breaking in your house or any other emergency. Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people.

there's not a problem with most people not "liking" police Jim
the problem is in your view in mainly 2 places.

1st you SEEM TO take any criticism of police as evidence of bad motives.
"... many people today ... jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police... Accusations daily, never a thank you... I think the folks that despise them so much"

You assume that every real complaint and pointing out of many... any real crimes by police as only as a pass time or simply smear the police as a WHOLE because of they "despise" police. and you assume they've "never" said or say thank you. And some others just don't take those thanks seriously. Because for some reason it's just wrong to accuse the police of anything.

2nd you SEEM TO not want to look at specific police dept or police facts and want to everyone to live off of police LEGEND or PR. and want people to be deferential to police for doing the needed and noble jobs they volunteered and trained for. and you SEEM TO refuse to consider that some law enforcement practices and cultures are bad in themselves.

"...Yes, while very small numbers have done some bad things, that's no reason to forget the overwhelmingly large amount that do their jobs and save lives and help people...."

you assume that IN general it's a small number.
without looking at or pointing to specific city Depts or areas.

Some of the news and books noted about the issue of patterns that show that some whole Depts culture and policies are bad, criminal or unconstitutional. Does it mean they don't ALSO catch real bad guys? NO.
But it doesn't mean we should pretend like children that a specific police dept are mainly noble and self-sacrificing?

The main people upset with the complaints seems to be people who don't like their fairy tale version of police as heroes disfigured. And in response try to paint those who complain into bad guys rather than honestly consider the real and yes sometimes systematic corruption with policing.

[aboutime]

Simple answer to everyone on this topic. Please tell all of us about anyone you know who is PERFECT?

Other than the standard cop-out (pardon the pun) of God, or Jesus.

Human beings are not perfect. Which is why we have Human Beings who become Police officers, and member of our Military.

Anyone dispute that?

[revelarts]

Simple answer to everyone on this topic. Please tell all of us about anyone you know who is PERFECT?
Other than the standard cop-out (pardon the pun) of God, or Jesus.
Human beings are not perfect. Which is why we have Human Beings who become Police officers, and member of our Military.

Exactly police are human beings.
And police departments are human organizations with various cultures.
And police policies written and unwritten are man made.

And just like any human orgs/cultures/polices things can/should be improved.
But that can only happen if we are honest enough to allow it to be critiqued, and flaws pointed out.

Doesn't mean you despise the org.
Just that you want it to be the best it can be.
And the negative aspects exposed and removed as much as possible.

Does no good to pretend it's NEAR perfect when it's not.

[Jeff]

If we go to restaurant and find the cooks cooking well should i be surprised?
Should we thank them every time?
If we go to a restaurant and find the cooks burn the meals there regularly, should we complain and let others know or defend the cooking profession?
Do we attack those who complain about bad cooks? "well why don't you get the bum on the corner to cook your restaurant food? huh?"(the previous quote marks indicate a made up quote and does not imply anyone on DP wrote that sentence.)
And do we need to point out that professional cooks generally do a decent job?
Do we assume that the complainers "despise" cooks in general?
If we find that the restaurants are allowing cooks to who burn food regularly to stay on, and are promoted to head cook and new cooks coming to the restaurant are told to burn as the head cook does not cook the way they were trained to do.
Does pointing that out mean that you HATE cooks?
Sure many/most professional cooks do a good to great job.
And If the cooks don't burn the signature meals and gives meals for free to shut ins should that be praised. of course. does it make up for all the burnt food? nope.

If a cook burns my food absolutely I let him know about it, if he does a good job then he has done his job and his pay check is a thank you, But please tell me do the cops always do wrong, are the police not allowed to approach a car ? Or are they just not allowed to approach black drivers, OK I get it now, Blacks are above the law.
.


I tried to fix this but please forgive me Rev I was mixed up between this thread and another.

[revelarts]

If a cook burns my food absolutely I let him know about it, if he does a good job then he has done his job and his pay check is a thank you, But please tell me do the cops always do wrong, are the police not allowed to approach a car ? Or are they just not allowed to approach black drivers, OK I get it now, Blacks are above the law.
.
I tried to fix this but please forgive me Rev I was mixed up between this thread and another.

not sure what you're asking to forgive but sure, no problem. thanks.

in reply to the 1st part


if your going to assume that then I can assume the worse too and we can get no where.
here we go.
Do police get to shoot and jail black people just because they are walking down the street?!! HUH?? HUH?!! OK, I get it now, Cops are above the law.
I hope you think that's an outrageous statement. Yours was much more so.

As far as your question "are cops always wrong" goes.
Jeff didn't you just IGNORE everything I said about a good cooks.
did I say that they ALWAYS burn the food? no i didn't.
why did you ignore that part? Please seriously i'd like to know why you'd assume the worse? when i clearly did not say that.

But look, what is the law about police stoping cars, ANY car? ANY person?
the police should have probable cause. or reasonable suspision correct?
Is just being black in America probable cause Jim?

Should people be treated equally? yes or no? innocent until proven guilty?
Should all blacks be treated WORSE because OTHER blacks have done crimes? Should whites be treated better? is that worth complaining about?
Should i approach all whites and assume all are racist because some really are?

I've been stopped by police a dozen or so times in my life, only on maybe 3 of those occasions did i suspect that there was a racist element to the encounter. (my lil brother has had far more) But the police did nothing technically illegal with me.
On most occasions with me the police were great guys/gals. the last time i was stopped for speeding it was the nicest lady cop I've ever had. She seemed to almost feel as bad giving me the ticket (on the empty stretch of road) as i felt in getting it. I've had a couple of cops who seemed to be general butt-holes . who would treat anyone like crap and wanted everyone to respect their a-thor-ra-tah.

So please don't make complaints by blacks into just a race thing. So you can try to use it as an excuse to dismiss the real issues. That's dishonest to the facts.
Is race an issue in some cases, yes. But if you look at what i've posted over the years you'll see i think policing in general has been declining across the board. the police have become more militarized and less community friendly in general. some Depts have recognized it and implanted changes. they didn't go into denials and tell people to -just 911 a crack addict next time.- they acknowledged the problems.

Tyr has mentioned several times what's he's experienced. He's white ...more or less.

I worked with a woman who's brother was a cop. she hung out with him and his cop friends. We talked about police and police culture from time to time. I remember asking her once. "Some police just like beating people up don't they?" She looked at me sideways, pursed her lips and slowly shock her head up and down in yes. She's black btw.

Some police are great and do great things and live up to their oaths and go beyond the call of duty, thank God for them.
Some don't. the ratio depends on the Dept, the training, the culture, the policies, the leadership, heck the time of day, but finally on the character of the individual officer.

Not on some idealized view of the profession we got as kids from uncle joe and Andy Griffith show.

[jimnyc]

If we go to restaurant and find the cooks cooking well should i be surprised?
Should we thank them every time?
If we go to a restaurant and find the cooks burn the meals there regularly, should we complain and let others know or defend the cooking profession?
Do we attack those who complain about bad cooks? "well why don't you get the bum on the corner to cook your restaurant food? huh?"(the previous quote marks indicate a made up quote and does not imply anyone on DP wrote that sentence.)
And do we need to point out that professional cooks generally do a decent job?
Do we assume that the complainers "despise" cooks in general?
If we find that the restaurants are allowing cooks to who burn food regularly to stay on, and are promoted to head cook and new cooks coming to the restaurant are told to burn as the head cook does not cook the way they were trained to do.
Does pointing that out mean that you HATE cooks?
Sure many/most professional cooks do a good to great job.
And If the cooks don't burn the signature meals and gives meals for free to shut ins should that be praised. of course. does it make up for all the burnt food? nope.

If a horrible cook I would complain. and I always tip if a good cook and might even give a review on Yelp. At any rate, my point is that there are a lot of folks out there who only want to complain about the police, but usually don't have anything to say when good things happen and they literally save lives, which is daily.

there's not a problem with most people not "liking" police Jim
the problem is in your view in mainly 2 places.

1st you SEEM TO take any criticism of police as evidence of bad motives.
"... many people today ... jump at every little opportunity to jump on the police... Accusations daily, never a thank you... I think the folks that despise them so much"

You assume that every real complaint and pointing out of many... any real crimes by police as only as a pass time or simply smear the police as a WHOLE because of they "despise" police. and you assume they've "never" said or say thank you. And some others just don't take those thanks seriously. Because for some reason it's just wrong to accuse the police of anything.

2nd you SEEM TO not want to look at specific police dept or police facts and want to everyone to live off of police LEGEND or PR. and want people to be deferential to police for doing the needed and noble jobs they volunteered and trained for. and you SEEM TO refuse to consider that some law enforcement practices and cultures are bad in themselves.

you assume that IN general it's a small number.
without looking at or pointing to specific city Depts or areas.

Some of the news and books noted about the issue of patterns that show that some whole Depts culture and policies are bad, criminal or unconstitutional. Does it mean they don't ALSO catch real bad guys? NO.
But it doesn't mean we should pretend like children that a specific police dept are mainly noble and self-sacrificing?

The main people upset with the complaints seems to be people who don't like their fairy tale version of police as heroes disfigured. And in response try to paint those who complain into bad guys rather than honestly consider the real and yes sometimes systematic corruption with policing.

None of that changes my view - that there are far too many people out there today who want to make a career out of pointing out or claiming the police are bad. And YES, I would expect folks to point out and acknowledge when the good things often happen. If one is going to sit back and be a judge - then they should have ALL of the facts.

[darin]

I love cops. I hate the laws of the land. I hate Cops and other government officials lying to the population as means of stealing more income from the citizens. I hate the leaders of police agencies with their political ties. I hate how cops are asked to enforce the laws that generate the most revenue for the government - NOT the laws that keep us safe. I hate that there are so many laws. I hate when Cops and other officials control the movement of citizens "for their own safety" - as if that's reason-enough to justify fascism or totalitarian rule - even if temporary.

Police cannot keep society safe because society is chock-full of assholes.

Next time you're in trouble? Shoot your way out of it and hope to GOD some scumbag DA doesn't send you to jail for the rest of your life, followed by a civil suit from the piece of shits family of the piece of shit who tried to harm you in the first place.

[PixieStix]

Jim when you have a president that spends his days trying to stir the racism pot it eventually has to turn to the police, and yes it has done just that. So every idiot that follows the idiot in charge now hates the police ( not that they didn't always, the cops tend to get in the way of their night jobs ) But the president, DOJ and even many preachers have now made it cool to hate the police. Funny thing is most of the people that are doing the hating live in the most crime ridden part of town, I say let them police it themselves, that will sure enough save many a cops from being assaulted or worse, and then we wont have the nice folks that want to scream about police brutality ( after they rob a store ) Problem solved all the way around.

[revelarts]

If a horrible cook I would complain. and I always tip if a good cook and might even give a review on Yelp. At any rate, my point is that there are a lot of folks out there who only want to complain about the police, but usually don't have anything to say when good things happen and they literally save lives, which is daily.



None of that changes my view - that there are far too many people out there today who want to make a career out of pointing out or claiming the police are bad. And YES, I would expect folks to point out and acknowledge when the good things often happen. If one is going to sit back and be a judge - then they should have ALL of the facts.

Could you name some of these people that "never" say thank you that are such a horrible problem for you?
you say you want people to have "all of the facts" before they sit back and voice judgement.
Do the cops sighted in many of the reports have "all of the facts" before they judge on the spot?

But you have a right to your opinion,
and none of what you've said changes my view that innocent people falsely beaten, arrested, jailed, maimed, and killed by bad police deserves every complaint. Even if it makes some good cops "look bad". A good cop would understand bit of loss of reputation is worth it to get the "bad apples" exposed and bad systems corrected.

And in general bad policing causes me more outrage than the unnamed people who complain too much for your taste and somehow besmirch "all" cops everywhere and "never" say "thank you".

[avatar4321]

I like police. I just I Hate corrupt ones on power trips.

And I tend not to call them anyway. I can govern myself and solve my own problems most of the time

[Jeff]

not sure what you're asking to forgive but sure, no problem. thanks.

in reply to the 1st part


if your going to assume that then I can assume the worse too and we can get no where.
here we go.
Do police get to shoot and jail black people just because they are walking down the street?!! HUH?? HUH?!! OK, I get it now, Cops are above the law.
I hope you think that's an outrageous statement. Yours was much more so.

As far as your question "are cops always wrong" goes.
Jeff didn't you just IGNORE everything I said about a good cooks.
did I say that they ALWAYS burn the food? no i didn't.
why did you ignore that part? Please seriously i'd like to know why you'd assume the worse? when i clearly did not say that.

But look, what is the law about police stoping cars, ANY car? ANY person?
the police should have probable cause. or reasonable suspision correct?
Is just being black in America probable cause Jim?

Should people be treated equally? yes or no? innocent until proven guilty?
Should all blacks be treated WORSE because OTHER blacks have done crimes? Should whites be treated better? is that worth complaining about?
Should i approach all whites and assume all are racist because some really are?

I've been stopped by police a dozen or so times in my life, only on maybe 3 of those occasions did i suspect that there was a racist element to the encounter. (my lil brother has had far more) But the police did nothing technically illegal with me.
On most occasions with me the police were great guys/gals. the last time i was stopped for speeding it was the nicest lady cop I've ever had. She seemed to almost feel as bad giving me the ticket (on the empty stretch of road) as i felt in getting it. I've had a couple of cops who seemed to be general butt-holes . who would treat anyone like crap and wanted everyone to respect their a-thor-ra-tah.

So please don't make complaints by blacks into just a race thing. So you can try to use it as an excuse to dismiss the real issues. That's dishonest to the facts.
Is race an issue in some cases, yes. But if you look at what i've posted over the years you'll see i think policing in general has been declining across the board. the police have become more militarized and less community friendly in general. some Depts have recognized it and implanted changes. they didn't go into denials and tell people to -just 911 a crack addict next time.- they acknowledged the problems.

Tyr has mentioned several times what's he's experienced. He's white ...more or less.

I worked with a woman who's brother was a cop. she hung out with him and his cop friends. We talked about police and police culture from time to time. I remember asking her once. "Some police just like beating people up don't they?" She looked at me sideways, pursed her lips and slowly shock her head up and down in yes. She's black btw.

Some police are great and do great things and live up to their oaths and go beyond the call of duty, thank God for them.
Some don't. the ratio depends on the Dept, the training, the culture, the policies, the leadership, heck the time of day, but finally on the character of the individual officer.

Not on some idealized view of the profession we got as kids from uncle joe and Andy Griffith show.

As I said I got two threads confused and I apologized for it, as far as the cook if you take into account that I have already apologized for putting two threads ( a like ) together, and the fact that your stance is usually bad cop good black man then you would understand.

Rev you are a good guy sure enough, a bit anti establishment but hey that is your choice. Yes you did talk about the good cooks but the entire thing was surrounded with the bad cook theory.

[jimnyc]

Could you name some of these people that "never" say thank you that are such a horrible problem for you?

I never said these people were a horrible problem for me. I just figure if some hate cops so much, they shouldn't call them when they need them. For example, there were many schmucks in Ferguson that threw rocks at the police, shot at them and such. I hope the next time someone breaks into their houses and their lives are in danger - they should call their partners in crime for help.

And I don't think usernames from other forums, news stories and real life people are something I should be sharing here. But no doubt there are many that fit under this umbrella.

you say you want people to have "all of the facts" before they sit back and voice judgement.
Do the cops sighted in many of the reports have "all of the facts" before they judge on the spot?

That's what we have courts for. A cops job is to assess a situation, based on the facts available at the time. For example, in another thread of recent, folks refusing to give ID within legal stops, acting like lawyers and such when they legally should be forking over ID. A cop doesn't need to know all the facts, or why a dummy would do this, he is within his rights to arrest at that moment. The idiot is free to give additional facts and fight his case in front of a judge.

But you have a right to your opinion,
and none of what you've said changes my view that innocent people falsely beaten, arrested, jailed, maimed, and killed by bad police deserves every complaint. Even if it makes some good cops "look bad". A good cop would understand bit of loss of reputation is worth it to get the "bad apples" exposed and bad systems corrected.

I know there's many issues with the police, never stated otherwise. But NO WAY in hell do I state that it's ok for some police to be defamed, simply to make another guilty person look bad. That's simply not how it works. And that's similar to what I'm talking about - beat the police at all costs, complain at all costs, even if it costs the innocent folks their jobs or reputations. So much for wanting those pesky facts!!

And in general bad policing causes me more outrage than the unnamed people who complain too much for your taste and somehow besmirch "all" cops everywhere and "never" say "thank you".

Bad policing is something that many of us share outrage about. But it doesn't make me want to libel/slander ALL police as a result. The man who saves 2 lives in a day is someone worthy of recognition to me. No different than a bad soldier, one who may have shot up a small village of innocents. Definitely deserving of scorn, and of course criminal charges - but sure as fuck wouldn't make me want to ignore other soldiers, or make them "look bad" simply because another soldier went off the edge.