Libertarians

[Perianne]

Are there any Libertarians here willing to discuss your beliefs?

[fj1200]

Are there any Libertarians here willing to discuss your beliefs?

Seeing as the Libertarians are the true home of conservatism right now... What's your pleasure?

STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the <country-region st="on">United States</country-region>, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

With some exception I'd say I'm a Libertarian.

[sundaydriver]

[QUOTE=fj1200;730575 With some exception I'd say I'm a Libertarian.[/QUOTE]

Just more leftie cover?

[Perianne]

Seeing as the Libertarians are the true home of conservatism right now... What's your pleasure?

With some exception I'd say I'm a Libertarian.

I have noted that Libertarians think highly of themselves. I was watching a Libertarian guest on C-SPAN yesterday. A man called in and said something to the effect of "talking to these people [Democrats and Republicans] is like trying to herd cats". Hmmm. Not a good way to bring people over to your cause.

Anyway, I agree with most Libertarian beliefs. The problem with big government is that it has its fingers in everything, so much that you can't do anything without it affecting something the government has its fingers in. For example:

I agree that anyone should be able to take any drug or substance they want. They should be able to get as high or drunk as they want, right up to the point of dying (as long as no one else is harmed). Here's the problem with that: if a person takes heroin, or whatever, and overdoses, then that person, by law, has to be treated in an Emergency Room, whether or not that person has the ability to pay for it. Or when the person has an addiction so bad they can't stand it, that person expects society to pay for his friggin' rehab.

So, while Libertarians want to legalize all drugs, they don't address the consequences side of what happens when there are overdoses and someone else has to pay for it.

I don't know exactly where my beliefs lie, but I say this: Live with the consequences of the choices you have made in life and do not expect others to bail you out.

Please address my concerns with this issue, as I am not all that far from being a Libertarian myself.

[fj1200]

I have noted that Libertarians think highly of themselves. I was watching a Libertarian guest on C-SPAN yesterday. A man called in and said something to the effect of "talking to these people [Democrats and Republicans] is like trying to herd cats". Hmmm. Not a good way to bring people over to your cause.

You just described a goodly number of posters here. No, really.

Anyway, I agree with most Libertarian beliefs. The problem with big government is that it has its fingers in everything, so much that you can't do anything without it affecting something the government has its fingers in. For example:

I agree that anyone should be able to take any drug or substance they want. They should be able to get as high or drunk as they want, right up to the point of dying (as long as no one else is harmed). Here's the problem with that: if a person takes heroin, or whatever, and overdoses, then that person, by law, has to be treated in an Emergency Room, whether or not that person has the ability to pay for it. Or when the person has an addiction so bad they can't stand it, that person expects society to pay for his friggin' rehab.

So, while Libertarians want to legalize all drugs, they don't address the consequences side of what happens when there are overdoses and someone else has to pay for it.

I don't know exactly where my beliefs lie, but I say this: Live with the consequences of the choices you have made in life and do not expect others to bail you out.

Please address my concerns with this issue, as I am not all that far from being a Libertarian myself.

I would say that illicit drugs is one of those exceptions, along with abortion and national security to some extent. But I think you've described why Libertarians will not gain wide acceptance anytime soon. Society will not accept the horrors of unrestrained drug use and the resultant responsibility of their welfare (even if none of that is true). What they need to do is start with decriminalizing marijuana, legalize marijuana, decriminalize xxx, etc. and see how it works out. But as soon as some tragedy where someone's child dies of... something... then that likely white, blond, 16-year old girl's parents will blanket the nation with "how could we let this happen!" and then the laws will clamp back down on our liberty because of whiny dumb people. /dmp rant

So I'm not exactly sure what your concerns are but I'm guessing you're not very close to a Libertarian. :cough: gay marriage :cough:

[Kathianne]

You just described a goodly number of posters here. No, really.



I would say that illicit drugs is one of those exceptions, along with abortion and national security to some extent. But I think you've described why Libertarians will not gain wide acceptance anytime soon. Society will not accept the horrors of unrestrained drug use and the resultant responsibility of their welfare (even if none of that is true). What they need to do is start with decriminalizing marijuana, legalize marijuana, decriminalize xxx, etc. and see how it works out. But as soon as some tragedy where someone's child dies of... something... then that likely white, blond, 16-year old girl's parents will blanket the nation with "how could we let this happen!" and then the laws will clamp back down on our liberty because of whiny dumb people. /dmp rant

So I'm not exactly sure what your concerns are but I'm guessing you're not very close to a Libertarian. :cough: gay marriage :cough:

I refer to my political self as a 'libertarian leaning' conservative. Exceptions would be legalization of drugs, though I'm against the 'lock up the users.' I'm also far from an isolationist.

[Perianne]

Seeing as the Libertarians are the true home of conservatism right now... What's your pleasure?



With some exception I'd say I'm a Libertarian.

With some exception(s) I'd say I am a Libertarian, too.

[Gunny]

Are there any Libertarians here willing to discuss your beliefs?

Go for it.

[Gunny]

I have noted that Libertarians think highly of themselves. I was watching a Libertarian guest on C-SPAN yesterday. A man called in and said something to the effect of "talking to these people [Democrats and Republicans] is like trying to herd cats". Hmmm. Not a good way to bring people over to your cause.

Anyway, I agree with most Libertarian beliefs. The problem with big government is that it has its fingers in everything, so much that you can't do anything without it affecting something the government has its fingers in. For example:

I agree that anyone should be able to take any drug or substance they want. They should be able to get as high or drunk as they want, right up to the point of dying (as long as no one else is harmed). Here's the problem with that: if a person takes heroin, or whatever, and overdoses, then that person, by law, has to be treated in an Emergency Room, whether or not that person has the ability to pay for it. Or when the person has an addiction so bad they can't stand it, that person expects society to pay for his friggin' rehab.

So, while Libertarians want to legalize all drugs, they don't address the consequences side of what happens when there are overdoses and someone else has to pay for it.

I don't know exactly where my beliefs lie, but I say this: Live with the consequences of the choices you have made in life and do not expect others to bail you out.

Please address my concerns with this issue, as I am not all that far from being a Libertarian myself.

First name your poison. Right or left libertarian?

Thinking you're smarter than the US government which requires about a 4th grade education is NOT thinking highly of oneself. It's thinking you made it past 4th grade.

You get called a liertarian when you think for yourself and don't fall into party lockstep. I believe in the Constitution and no one man, nor party bureaucrats are above that. I believe in the ideals that created this nation. I also believe there is little difference between our current police state and Nazi Germany.

Feel free to discuss.

[Perianne]

First name your poison. Right or left libertarian?

Thinking you're smarter than the US government which requires about a 4th grade education is NOT thinking highly of oneself. It's thinking you made it past 4th grade.

You get called a liertarian when you think for yourself and don't fall into party lockstep. I believe in the Constitution and no one man, nor party bureaucrats are above that. I believe in the ideals that created this nation. I also believe there is little difference between our current police state and Nazi Germany.

Feel free to discuss.

I wish to discuss the very situation you quoted from me. If we legalize all drugs, who has to pay for the eventual fallout from those drugs? I have worked ER and seen the consequences of drug abuse. I work now in a unit that specializes in the care of drug addicts' wounds and illnesses. These are vital answers I am seeking.

[Gunny]

I wish to discuss the very situation you quoted from me. If we legalize all drugs, who has to pay for the eventual fallout from those drugs? I have worked ER and seen the consequences of drug abuse. I work now in a unit that specializes in the care of drug addicts' wounds and illnesses. These are vital answers I am seeking.

Why does that come as an issue? I just have no more problem with legalizing drugs than I do tobacco and alcohol. I'm an addict of both and society created me. Bogey always had smoke and a tumbler of bourbon and he was cool. I get up every morning and have to fight back the urge to go get plastered.

Add to that your "war on drugs" turns more military people than you think into alcoholics. I didn't want someone higher'n a kite in MY line, but it you're just "hungover" or still drunk from the night before you get a pass. If you smoked a little weed the night before, you're straight the next day.

My point is this: we make a big deal about one but not the other and both do the same things. Impair your judgement.

And moving right along, I live constantly in pain from service related injuries and by God, don't ask for a pain killer.

So, addiction is a weakness, right? Who isn't addicted to something? Oh, and we pay for all kinds of stupid crap. Hell, look at the fed gov.

[Gunny]

Go back and look at what you posted. If it isn't about choice, then what do you call it? Same token, someone chooses to be self destructive -- regardless the means -- what business is it of yours to interfere?

I can tell you the difference in two words: freedom vs fascism. You want to be free? Or tell others how to live?

[Perianne]

Go back and look at what you posted. If it isn't about choice, then what do you call it? Same token, someone chooses to be self destructive -- regardless the means -- what business is it of yours to interfere?

I can tell you the difference in two words: freedom vs fascism. You want to be free? Or tell others how to live?

I agree. If someone wants to be self-destructive and he is causing no harm to anyone else, there should be no laws against it.

But, - and I will ask for the last time - who should have to pay for the health consequences of their bad decisions?

[Jeff]

I agree. If someone wants to be self-destructive and he is causing no harm to anyone else, there should be no laws against it.

But, - and I will ask for the last time - who should have to pay for the health consequences of their bad decisions?

That is really a tough question, I agree with a person wants to be self-destructive have at it but then they ought to be able to pay the consequences of their actions. But if they are busy getting high chances are they aren't busy working. This is similar to states that have a helmet law for motorcycles, people say it isn't up to the state to have to pay for the riders medical bills when they get injured, myself I believe in order to be able to afford the bike you must be working so therefore you more than likley have some kind of insurance so let those who ride decide. As for folks wanting to do drugs and then get sick, no the state shouldn't be responsible but ya can't just turn them away either, tough call for sure.

[DragonStryk72]

Are there any Libertarians here willing to discuss your beliefs?

Sure thing. What do you want to know?