Huge admission to make - for me

[jimnyc]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...7-View-Changes

Perianne had asked in that thread about society and political changes one may have had. I had intended on making this thread anyway, and don't want hers ruined, so I'll post here. I was hesitant to post this for a few days, as I know what I'll hear for it, but I'll go forward anyway. I think many of you will be utterly shocked with this.

Transgender folks. That's right, you read correctly.

It's a long story, but the tipping point was watching the Bruce Jenner interview. I don't honestly and fully know how I feel now, but it literally brought a tear to my eye. I felt for him. I believed him. He was very good at explaining things and doesn't want changes from anyone. Diane Sawyer asked him what he would want from the public, and he simply said to have an open mind.

They gave a brief interview with his 89 year old Mom at the end. She said the proudest moment of her life was when Bruce lifted the gold medal in the 1976 olympics, the proudest day of her life. She said she could never be prouder than that day. - until today. And she had a tear in her eye. Seeing his ex-wives explain things, what they knew and such. The whole story from when he was a child, until current times.

All that I believed my entire life, and this was the first person ever to kinda make me believe that he was "born this way".

Now look, this doesn't mean I'll go out and vote in favor of gay marriage, or equal rights for what I think are mostly desires. Just not happening. But I had sympathy for him, empathy. Just a year or 2 ago I was mocking him, thinking it was hilarious and that he should move to an island somewhere.

I don't know what this means for sure. Maybe he just made me feel sad? Guilty?

I want Bruce to be happy, even if I would prefer not to see him in makeup and a dress. I hope his entire family accepts him. I hope the public isn't too brutal with him when he reappears now as a woman.

I guess my thinking is, how can I feel bad for this guy, want him to be happy and successful with this - and be totally against such behavior? Is it because it's an athlete hero from when I was a kid?

Someone make sense of this for me!!!

[Noir]

Literal tears Jim, this post has made me so happy (:

[Kathianne]

I don't watch things like the Jenner story or even read much about them. It's like People Magazine, not going to say I've never read it, but it has to be the only thing in the waiting room for me to pick one up.

With that said, I really don't care what folks do or don't do as long as they keep it in appropriate areas. I don't like 'in my face' that I must accept or condone; otoh, I don't feel compelled to put up roadblocks for others either. I think the increased involvement of federal government into what used to be private, has made more for devisiveness-whether it be on race, sex, religion. It grosses me out to see public displays of affection, beyond hand holding or whatever-but I think that speaks to immaturity or insecurity of the couple, gay or straight.

Don't ask, don't tell was the beginning of the fed intrusion, since then we see more laws and more attacks on and by gays.

I've said before that while I don't think 'all' gays are born that way, some are. My concerns though are more on the level of changes to the society through government intervention.

[fj1200]

Someone make sense of this for me!!!

He was humanized so you can no longer demonize.

[jimnyc]

Literal tears Jim, this post has made me so happy (:

I hate you. One word about the Rangers losing in the last second and you die!!

I don't watch things like the Jenner story or even read much about them. It's like People Magazine, not going to say I've never read it, but it has to be the only thing in the waiting room for me to pick one up.

With that said, I really don't care what folks do or don't do as long as they keep it in appropriate areas. I don't like 'in my face' that I must accept or condone; otoh, I don't feel compelled to put up roadblocks for others either. I think the increased involvement of federal government into what used to be private, has made more for devisiveness-whether it be on race, sex, religion. It grosses me out to see public displays of affection, beyond hand holding or whatever-but I think that speaks to immaturity or insecurity of the couple, gay or straight.

Don't ask, don't tell was the beginning of the fed intrusion, since then we see more laws and more attacks on and by gays.

I've said before that while I don't think 'all' gays are born that way, some are. My concerns though are more on the level of changes to the society through government intervention.

Well said. I think that helped, that he's NOT an in your face guy. In fact, he's been going out of his way to hide everything. I dunno if that's better or worse.

He was humanized so you can no longer demonize.

Think that's it? I've even known gay folks over the years that were nice fellas, but I had no sympathy or empathy for them. Would still hold my nose and feel a tad disgusted inside. I hope that never changes!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...7-View-Changes

Perianne had asked in that thread about society and political changes one may have had. I had intended on making this thread anyway, and don't want hers ruined, so I'll post here. I was hesitant to post this for a few days, as I know what I'll hear for it, but I'll go forward anyway. I think many of you will be utterly shocked with this.

Transgender folks. That's right, you read correctly.

It's a long story, but the tipping point was watching the Bruce Jenner interview. I don't honestly and fully know how I feel now, but it literally brought a tear to my eye. I felt for him. I believed him. He was very good at explaining things and doesn't want changes from anyone. Diane Sawyer asked him what he would want from the public, and he simply said to have an open mind.

They gave a brief interview with his 89 year old Mom at the end. She said the proudest moment of her life was when Bruce lifted the gold medal in the 1976 olympics, the proudest day of her life. She said she could never be prouder than that day. - until today. And she had a tear in her eye. Seeing his ex-wives explain things, what they knew and such. The whole story from when he was a child, until current times.

All that I believed my entire life, and this was the first person ever to kinda make me believe that he was "born this way".

Now look, this doesn't mean I'll go out and vote in favor of gay marriage, or equal rights for what I think are mostly desires. Just not happening. But I had sympathy for him, empathy. Just a year or 2 ago I was mocking him, thinking it was hilarious and that he should move to an island somewhere.

I don't know what this means for sure. Maybe he just made me feel sad? Guilty?

I want Bruce to be happy, even if I would prefer not to see him in makeup and a dress. I hope his entire family accepts him. I hope the public isn't too brutal with him when he reappears now as a woman.

I guess my thinking is, how can I feel bad for this guy, want him to be happy and successful with this - and be totally against such behavior? Is it because it's an athlete hero from when I was a kid?

Someone make sense of this for me!!!

Methinks you had a moment of empathy and massive compassion for a fellow human being. Now do not let that weakness lead you to start wearing dresses and joining up with good ole Miss Bruce.
I see it this way, the person is lost and in that blindness he cries out for understanding and compassion--nothing wrong with giving both IMHO.
Just do not go overboard and start liking twinkies over that of Mom's apple pie..
By the way, this is not criticism of you having such compassion. Myself, I just feel truly sorry for the poor delusional guy!
Walking in abject darkness and grabbing the first path with a glowing light at the end of it . Too bad that the light is a campfire at the first gate of hell IMHO. -Tyr

[indago]

Jenner, and others alike, should be examined by a HypnoTherapist to determine why they think that way, when it is quite obvious that they are masquerading, pretending to be something that they are not. Maybe a HypnoTherapist, probing deep into their subconscious, can find something in their past, or past life, that would be the key to why they are thinking the way they do. And then, work on changing their thinking to go along with who and what they really are.

[jimnyc]

Methinks you had a moment of empathy and massive compassion for a fellow human being. Now do not let that weakness lead you to start wearing dresses and joining up with good ole Miss Bruce.
I see it this way, the person is lost and in that blindness he cries out for understanding and compassion--nothing wrong with giving both IMHO.
Just do not go overboard and start liking twinkies over that of Mom's apple pie..
By the way, this is not criticism of you having such compassion. Myself, I just feel truly sorry for the poor delusional guy!
Walking in abject darkness and grabbing the first path with a glowing light at the end of it . Too bad that the light is a campfire at the first gate of hell IMHO. -Tyr

That's my general thought, that a lot of these folks simply gave in to lustful desires. But hell, who in the hell would want to purposely give up on wives, give up on sex and all, just so he/she can feel happy inside? Hell, I'd take sex forever and be a miserable bastard!!

But for me - no dresses, and while I like Twinkies (as my fat belly can attest), I'll NEVER like twinkies like that. My bat ONLY swings one way.

Maybe he's used to acting and being on TV, and I just watched and felt for him? I wonder how I would have felt if it was a no name guy?

[jimnyc]

Jenner, and others alike, should be examined by a HypnoTherapist to determine why they think that way, when it is quite obvious that they are masquerading, pretending to be something that they are not. Maybe a HypnoTherapist, probing deep into their subconscious, can find something in their past, or past life, that would be the key to why they are thinking the way they do. And then, work on changing their thinking to go along with who and what they really are.

I don't know about a hypnotherapist, but apparently he's been seeing doctors since the 80's at the very least. And I don't think they will let you start taking the hormones and other crap unless you see an expert in the field and that person gives a prescription or written recommendation.

Then again, what do they know? My wacko doctor tells me all kinds of things - and none with a blood test, DNA test - or really any tests at all. Simply talking and taking a stab in the dark is the way I see it. But I also don't have a weird desire for lipstick and dresses - that kinda narrows down the issues a little!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't know about a hypnotherapist, but apparently he's been seeing doctors since the 80's at the very least. And I don't think they will let you start taking the hormones and other crap unless you see an expert in the field and that person gives a prescription or written recommendation.

Then again, what do they know? My wacko doctor tells me all kinds of things - and none with a blood test, DNA test - or really any tests at all. Simply talking and taking a stab in the dark is the way I see it. But I also don't have a weird desire for lipstick and dresses - that kinda narrows down the issues a little!

But I also don't have a weird desire for lipstick and dresses - that kinda narrows down the issues a little!

Whew, sure relieves me and Jeff to see you at least admit that part!

Just let us know if you start craving in cute purses in storeroom display windows, will ya?- -Tyr

[jimnyc]

Whew, sure relieves me and Jeff to see you at least admit that part!

Just let us know if you start craving in cute purses in storeroom display windows, will ya?- -Tyr

I'm a pervert, no doubt, but all women!! And I don't think I have any of that weird shit in me. The only thing I like in store windows is puppies and kittens!!

And don't let Jeff fool you, he's the one who is certifiable!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm a pervert, no doubt, but all women!! And I don't think I have any of that weird shit in me. The only thing I like in store windows is puppies and kittens!!

And don't let Jeff fool you, he's the one who is certifiable!

And don't let Jeff fool you, he's the one who is certifiable!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ AHHHHHH, exactly what Jeff said about you!
And he thinks Bruce is as nutty as a damn fruitcake...

The say, confession is good for the soul my friend.
Your secrets are safe with me! -
SSHH, DON'T TELL ANYBODY ELSE..
PM me with your other fetishes and ye 'ole doctor Robert gots da CURE MY FRIEND!--Tyr

[jimnyc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ AHHHHHH, exactly what Jeff said about you!
And he thinks Bruce is as nutty as a damn fruitcake...

The say, confession is good for the soul my friend.
Your secrets are safe with me! -
SSHH, DON'T TELL ANYBODY ELSE..
PM me with your other fetishes and ye 'ole doctor Robert gots da CURE MY FRIEND!--Tyr

I already told EVERYONE my fetish - boobies! And I make no secret about that one. Well, maybe not a fetish, but rather an obsession. And even if there were a cure, I want NO part of it, thank you very much.

[tailfins]

When there's a job to be done, I get the same way myself. You're either working or you're doing and thinking about something else.

[jimnyc]

When there's a job to be done, I get the same way myself. You're either working or you're doing and thinking about something else.

WTF? I'm lost with this one. Clarify!