Jim Gray: Brady suspension 'will not hold up' under appeal

[darin]

There's no court in play here. But if there was, he'd lose based on the definition I listed.

A mediator might reduce it? Yeah. Would suck? yeah. But still.

[jimnyc]

There's no court in play here. But if there was, he'd lose based on the definition I listed.

A mediator might reduce it? Yeah. Would suck? yeah. But still.

Not yet anyway. That's how Peterson got reinstated, he went to court and won, and then the NFL reinstated him shortly thereafter. It may not go that far of course, but getting an injunction if they don't get their way is a possibility.

[Gunny]

Bringing up my team because your team sucks?

Tom Refused to have his text/phone records of convo between he and the techs looked-at. By that he attempted a cover up.

And Tom Broke the FUCKING GOD DAMN RULES for game play.

He's a cheater.

Nah. I just like poking at you in good fun. I don't take professional sports seriously. I quit doing that years ago. I thought not having a stroke was the better option.

What rule did anyone PROVE he broke? THAT is what I disagree with. Since when did we, as Americans, bust people on assumption? Oh yeah, sorry. Forgot where I was living for a moment. That whole "innocent until proven guilty Constitutional thingy" went out the window in the 80s.

[Gunny]

Oh. And I KILL at Madden on the PS3. Nobody is better

I'd have to do too much thinking to figure it out.

[Gunny]

There very well may have been other issues in football that was treated in a lighter manner. But first off, it shouldn't have been. They need to come down HARD on any team/players found to be cheating. If small, and you allow it, then it only gets worse. And secondly, the Patriots history since Brady was on the team. I think his suspension is where it should be, and the rest to the team as well.

It would suck if it's lifted after appeal. As many have stated, Ray Rice knocked his woman out cold and got 2 games. They need to start handling these things properly.

I disagree. I don't agree with the rule, nor dogpiling Brady as an example to something no one's yet proven. He's being punished for taking a stand and telling the NFL to f- off, not for anything the NFL has proven. When you tell tyrants like King George the III of the NFL to f- off, I'm on your side.

You want in my phone? How does kiss my a$$ sound for an answer? I don't care what you think I did nor who you think you are. It's the principle. And ....... there's nothing in my phone.

[jimnyc]

I thought not having a stroke was the better option.

Thought I was the only one that bad. I think I turned purple a few times. I have serious issues when it comes to watching the games and nearly having a stroke!

But I'm usually good about ribbing with fans of other teams and such, that stuff never bothered me much, even when the Steelers had Cliff Stoudt as their QB! It's pretty much just the watching, and being on edge and wanting them to win. And even when the Steelers win 11,12,13 games in a season, they like to make me sweat it out as they finish all of their games tight and in the last few minutes. As much as I love my team, there are times I feel like reaching through the screen and punching one of them in the face when they make a bad play, or a stupid decision.

It's a tad different with my family though, as we like to really ride one another, although all in good fun. I remember the Steelers losing in the championship game to the chargers in like 1994, and Jeff and John were at my apartment at the time watching with me. Steelers blew it on the 1 yard line on the last play of the game. Yeah, I was pissed at them and my TV screen of course. But then wanted to stab them too not long after for fucking with me.

[DLT]

They are going to sit Brady for 4 games a fine for the team and they lose 2 draft picks, all this because they did something that allowed them to earn millions, the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime. What I don't understand is how Brady has gotten pulled into it, they say he didn't hand over his phone but they also say he wasn't told to do so. This whole thing seems fishy. IMO if they had proof that this team cheated and it helped them win the championship they shouldn't of been allowed to play in the bowl, if they didn't get this info until afterwards then they should have the championship stripped from them.

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According to what I heard on Rush (and I admit that I know nothing else about the matter).....it's all based on circumstantial evidence....not solid proof. The presumption is that Brady did something wrong. The principle here is....that your employer can penalize you for something they "think" you did. I disagree with that principle. If they have no proof, then they have no justification for punishing you.

[Gunny]

According to what I heard on Rush (and I admit that I know nothing else about the matter).....it's all based on circumstantial evidence....not solid proof. The presumption is that Brady did something wrong. The principle here is....that your employer can penalize you for something they "think" you did. I disagree with that principle. If they have no proof, then they have no justification for punishing you.

And the presumption in a court of is .....? Innocence. So we agree. You don't get to shoot him just because he's Tom Brady. My idea of the last SB is if the Earth opened up and swallowed both teams there'd be a win.

The fact is, another NFL team made an accusation and the media ran with it. If that is how the Jets have to win games then they need to head back to the minors.

[jimnyc]

I disagree. I don't agree with the rule, nor dogpiling Brady as an example to something no one's yet proven. He's being punished for taking a stand and telling the NFL to f- off, not for anything the NFL has proven. When you tell tyrants like King George the III of the NFL to f- off, I'm on your side.

You want in my phone? How does kiss my a$$ sound for an answer? I don't care what you think I did nor who you think you are. It's the principle. And ....... there's nothing in my phone.

I don't like that rule either, but it IS a rule until such time they remove it from the books. They didn't prove it with a smoking gun, but the circumstantial evidence was easily there with the texts between the other guys and the film of the guy going into the bathroom with the balls. While I agree that I think they 'piled on' and/or ran with public sentiment, the Pats still did break the rules, whether unwittingly or not. What they really need is consistency. If there were huge fines and suspensions all along for any breath of cheating, then this wouldn't seem like a huge fine/suspension.

As for the phone, he's free to deny their request. But with other circumstantial evidence, it gives off the appearance of him wanting to hide something, and adds to the evidence as a whole that was used to make a final decision. I fully understand the principle, trust me, but it doesn't change appearances in the investigation.

[darin]

If he wasnt cheating, he wouldn't have attempted to cover it up. He would have deflated the balls in plain sight. Just is a terrible example of sportsmanship.

Yup. I would have been fine with an all-year suspsension. Maybe.


Here's the thing


Seahawks push the rules with regard to defense holding. While they are near the bottom of the league in penalties, the year they won the SB they were close to raping the guys at the line of scrimmage.


But that was right there, on the field. Plain sight. That's why it's different for me.

[jimnyc]

According to what I heard on Rush (and I admit that I know nothing else about the matter).....it's all based on circumstantial evidence....not solid proof. The presumption is that Brady did something wrong. The principle here is....that your employer can penalize you for something they "think" you did. I disagree with that principle. If they have no proof, then they have no justification for punishing you.

The guy that carried the balls was seen on camera taking them into the bathroom just prior to going to the field. This guy, and another guy that helps prepare the balls prior to the game, discussed the 'deflator' and issues related (although not in prefect wording) via text. Brady was in contact with the one guy for awhile after the news broke, even thought he wasn't in months prior. Also, to make matters even worse, there was discussion in these texts between the 2 guys of the ball guy getting some sort of kickbacks for his handy work. Admittedly it's all circumstantial, but it's 'good' circumstantial evidence that piled up.

I don't think other NFL teams will be fined and such based on a whim of someone thinking they did something alone. But if there's such a detailed investigation done and an equal amount of circumstantial evidence or more, then I can see such punishment again. No different than any other 'court', where convictions are made all the time without hard proof. I understand the NFL is not a court, but they do have rules, and rules to investigations, and rules from the CBA's and such.

[darin]

I say again: No "proof" is needed. Beyond a reasonable doubt is for criminal stuff. AND the legal system. Not a company/corporation.

Their stated standard is 'preponderance of the evidence.'

[Gunny]

If he wasnt cheating, he wouldn't have attempted to cover it up. He would have deflated the balls in plain sight. Just is a terrible example of sportsmanship.

Yup. I would have been fine with an all-year suspsension. Maybe.


Here's the thing


Seahawks push the rules with regard to defense holding. While they are near the bottom of the league in penalties, the year they won the SB they were close to raping the guys at the line of scrimmage.


But that was right there, on the field. Plain sight. That's why it's different for me.

What exactly is he covering up? His text and e-mail messages? I've got nothing to hide but I'll be damned if I'd turn them over to anyone just because they said so.

And there's no difference to me between defensive holding and 1 PSI. So let's strip the Seahawks of their *1* (count 'em title)?

Like I said, I played football forever. Why is this even a rule?

Oh, and all of these people cheat. Since the late 70's when it became big business.

[Gunny]

After thinking about it for a few minutes and based on what we know now, if I was in Tom Brady's position I'd sue the NFL. He's got the means and doesn't have a lot of years left. I'd sue them for libel, defamation of character and for wages lost throughout the rest of my contract.

Problem is he probably loves playing the game and wants to play more. I get it. And I'm looking at it from hindsight in the "what I should have done" category.

The other problem is no one ever stands up to these major league sports tyrants. Hell, no one even stands up to the NCAA. I don't give a damn if you're my employer and think you have special rights that supercede the US Constitution. How can you have rights that override the supreme law of the land (unless your las name is Obama, that is)? You know, that innocent until proven guilty thing?

[jimnyc]

After thinking about it for a few minutes and based on what we know now, if I was in Tom Brady's position I'd sue the NFL. He's got the means and doesn't have a lot of years left. I'd sue them for libel, defamation of character and for wages lost throughout the rest of my contract.

Problem is he probably loves playing the game and wants to play more. I get it. And I'm looking at it from hindsight in the "what I should have done" category.

The other problem is no one ever stands up to these major league sports tyrants. Hell, no one even stands up to the NCAA. I don't give a damn if you're my employer and think you have special rights that supercede the US Constitution. How can you have rights that override the supreme law of the land (unless your las name is Obama, that is)? You know, that innocent until proven guilty thing?

Just to add to things, from another perspective on circumstantial and direct proof. I still think with the totality of the investigation and evidence offered that he is guilty. I'm not even convinced he'll win on any appeal to the league first. My beef is with the way the NFL handles it's punishments.

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NEW YORK (AP) -- The lawyer who investigated the New England Patriots insisted Tuesday that he found direct, not just circumstantial, evidence to show quarterback Tom Brady knew team employees were deflating footballs.

Miffed by criticism from Brady's agent, Ted Wells decided to take the unusual step of holding a conference call with reporters, a day after the NFL suspended the Super Bowl MVP for the season's first four games based on the report.

Wells said his findings would have been strong enough to convince a jury under the ''preponderance of evidence'' standard, which is used in many civil cases.

Wells released his report last Wednesday, asserting it was ''more probable than not'' that Brady ''was at least generally aware'' of plans by two team employees to prepare the balls to his liking, below the league-mandated minimum of 12.5 pounds per square inch.

His voice frequently rising, Wells testily rebutted assertions from Don Yee, Brady's agent, questioning Wells' independence because his firm does other business with the NFL.

''What drove the decision in this report is one thing: It was the evidence,'' Wells said. ''I could not ethically ignore the import and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence.''

Wells specifically mentioned two series of text exchanges between officials' locker room attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski. In one, McNally referred to himself as ''the deflator'' and joked about going to ESPN. In another, Jastremski mentioned speaking to Brady the previous night, saying the quarterback knew McNally was stressed out by needing to deflate the balls.

''That is not circumstantial evidence,'' Wells said. ''That is two of the participants in a scheme discussing what has taken place.''

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-inv...3127--nfl.html