Slavery Fact of the Day

[Perianne]

you said in another post that you were still upset with the North of things done 100 years ago.

We are still living with the results of Lincoln's brutality.

[revelarts]

just for the record.
i've had Perriane on ignore for about a month now.
what i've read from her on these issues adds no historical or newsworthy content and is typically pitiful ignorant racist cracks and gibberish.

[tailfins]

Emphasis mine.

How often does Brazil 'apologize'?

They apologize almost daily: They have severe hate speech laws, extreme "affirmative action" and extreme wealth redistribution. Black minors are essentially immune from criminal punishment. Black Brazilians are a reliable socialist pro-Fidel Castro voting bloc. Remember those things before you criticize the secret assassination of street urchins in Rio de Janeiro by local shopkeepers done by payoffs to the cops. When the government refuses to prosecute criminals, you get vigilantism. The below link spells it out in detail.

http://site.adital.com.br/site/notic...g=PT&cod=84984

[Gunny]

The North still had slaves during the Civil war.. Lincoln did free slaves in enemy territory. Yet unless the North won that was an exercise in futility as he needed authority over the people he issued that edict to. At the time he issued that the matter of authority was in dispute(Civil War)! -Tyr

It was actually a simple strategic military gamble. Lincoln hoped to foment an uprising of slaves in Southern states which would have necessitated pulling troops out of the line to go home and squash the turmoil.

At the same time, he couldn't afford to alienate MD and KY.

[revelarts]

“if slaves make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong.”
Howell Cobb
"...was, in turn, a five-term U.S. Representative from Gerogia, Speaker of the U.S. House Representatives, Governor of Georgia, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, Speaker of the Provisional Confederate Congress, and Major General in the Confederate Army. He was a leader of the secession movement, and was elected president of the Montgomery convention that drafted a constitution for the new Confederacy. For a brief period in 1861, between the establishment of the Confederate States and the election of Jefferson Davis as its president, Speaker Cobb served as the new nation’s effective head of state. In his military career, Cobb held commands in the Army of Northern Virginia and the District of Georgia and Florida. ...his Georgia Reserve Corps fought against Sherman in his “March to the Sea.” Cobb commanded Confederate forces in a doomed defense of Columbus, Georgia in the last major land battle of the war, on Easter Sunday, April 16, 1865, the day after Abraham Lincoln died in Washington, D.C.."

http://deadconfederates.com/2010/10/...-confederates/

letter sent to Confederate Secretary of War James A. Seddon, in January 1865

The proposition to make soldiers of our slaves is the most pernicious idea that has been suggested since the war began. It is to me a source of deep mortification and regret to see the name of that good and great man and soldier, General R. E. Lee, given as authority for such a policy. My first hour of despondency will be the one in which that policy shall be adopted. You cannot make soldiers of slaves, nor slaves of soldiers. The moment you resort to negro [sic.] soldiers your white soldiers will be lost to you; and one secret of the favor With which the proposition is received in portions of the Army is the hope that when negroes go into the Army they will be permitted to retire. It is simply a proposition to fight the balance of the war with negro troops. You can’t keep white and black troops together, and you can’t trust negroes by themselves. It is difficult to get negroes enough for the purpose indicated in the President’s message, much less enough for an Army. Use all the negroes you can get, for all the purposes for which you need them, but don’t arm them. The day you make soldiers of them is the beginning of the end of the revolution. If slaves make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong — but they won’t make soldiers. As a class they are wanting in every qualification of a soldier. Better by far to yield to the demands of England and France and abolish slavery and thereby purchase their aid, than resort to this policy, which leads as certainly to ruin and subjugation as it is adopted; you want more soldiers, and hence the proposition to take negroes into the Army. Before resorting to it, at least try every reasonable mode of getting white soldiers. I do not entertain a doubt that you can, by the volunteering policy, get more men into the service than you can arm. I have more fears about arms than about men, For Heaven’s sake, try it before you fill with gloom and despondency the hearts of many of our truest and most devoted men, by resort to the suicidal policy of arming our slaves.

• During the 1830's occurred the Gag Rule controversy in Congress, during which Southern politicians tried to block even the presentation of petitions on the subject of slavery. The following quotes come from speeches made in the House and Senate during this time, taken from William Miller's book, Arguing About Slavery:
  
  • John C. Calhoun, Senator from South Carolina: "The defence of human liberty against the aggressions of despotic power have been always the most efficient in States where domestic slavery was to prevail."
  • James H. Hammond, Congressman from South Carolina: "Sir, I do firmly believe that domestic slavery, regulated as ours is, produces the highest toned, the purest, best organization of society that has ever existed on the face of the earth."
  • Hammond again, from later in the same speech: "the moment this House undertakes to legislate upon this subject [slavery], it dissolves the Union. Should it be my fortune to have a seat upon this floor, I will abandon it the instant the first decisive step is taken looking towards legislation of this subject. I will go home to preach, and if I can, practice, disunion, and civil war, if needs be. A revolution must ensue, and this republic sink in blood."
  • Henry Wise, Congressman (and future governor) from Virginia: "The principle of slavery is a leveling principle; it is friendly to equality. Break down slavery and you would with the same blow break down the great democratic principle of equality among men."
  
  
• From the diary of James B. Lockney, 28th Wisconsin Infantry, writing near Arkadelphia, Arkansas (10/29/63): "Last night I talked awhile to those men who came in day before yesterday from the S.W. part of the state about 120 miles distant. Many of them wish Slavery abolished & slaves out of the country as they said it was the cause of the War, and the Curse of our Country & the foe of the body of the people--the poor whites. They knew the Slave masters got up the war expressly in the interests of the institution, & with no real cause from the Government or the North." [This diary is on-line at: http://userdata.acd.net/jshirey/cw186310.html.]

http://www.civilwarcauses.org/quotes.htm

http://www.freedmen.umd.edu/pow.htm

http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history...-emancipation”

[darin]

Remember those things before you criticize the secret assassination of street urchins in Rio de Janeiro by local shopkeepers done by payoffs to the cops.]

Uh. I suppose I do not plan to criticize the secret assassination of street urchins in Rio by local shopkeepers done by payoffs to cops. Unless I was to criticize that sentence, maybe?

[namvet]

after the civil war almost all slaves stayed put. they were free but no place to go. so, they stayed on and were paid like employees by their former owners.

[namvet]

also the UK was involved in slavery as well. former PM Tony Blair made the apology

British Involvement in the Transatlantic Slave Trade

For well over 300 years, European countries forced Africans onto slave ships and transported them across the Atlantic Ocean.
The first European nation to engage in the Transatlantic Slave Trade was Portugal in the mid to late 1400's. Captain John Hawkins made the first known English slaving voyage to Africa, in 1562, in the reign of Elizabeth 1. Hawkins made three such journeys over a period of six years. He captured over 1200 Africans and sold them as goods in the Spanish colonies in the Americas.

http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_45.html

[Gunny]

So he killed American after American until he forced his thinking onto everyone. Well, not everyone. Not John Wilkes Booth.

Pretty much. That was definitely the beginning of the end of the 10th Amendment. AND, at the time, he had NO legal authority whatsoever to do so. The Supreme Court retro covered his a$$ in 1868 in Texas v White. Prior to that, nothing precluded leaving as freely as they entered.

I think that's Obama's gimmick. He's trying to violate the Constitution more than Lincoln. At least he can be 1st at something.

[Gunny]

DMP do you want them to apologize?
Would you notice or post it if they did?

But I did a little research and here's are few things to consider.
1. Brazil was a Portuguese colony from the 1500s - 1822 so it's Portugal who's responsible for the bulk of that slave trade you seem concerned about an apology for.
From 1822 to 1888 Brazil has to make it's own.

But i wonder, are you saying that America has apologized to much and that's it's unfair that ...as far as you know... Brazil hasn't.
or is the problem more that in your opinion you feel because people have asked "too much" for apologies from the U.S. gov't.

in general folks do you feel you have --or America--- has apologized to much? Please post a list all of the official gov't apologies for slavery you know of that you have in mind. I certainly see no apologizes in this thread or in others about slavery, seems what have here are rationalizations, justifications, complaints and downplaying of U.S. slavery.

Has anyone ask you guys personally for an apology? If not don't take it personally. It's a national pride vs truth issue. Plus it's over right you all love black americans as fellow citizens and brothers and sisters today and wish them the best right?

But here's a interesting article on the subject
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...lavery/375650/

Yep. I think we've apologized too much. Well, I haven't. And won't. I never owned any slaves. I don't owe them squat.

Just how long do you think this should go on? Apologizing for crap people did before even our great great grandparents were born? We've created a complete subulture within our culture that believes they are owed something that's been gone and done for over 150 years.

In every other facet of life it's, "it's over, get over it, move on." Yet WE give it a forum to keep it alive. After all, slavery and racism means money to the people exploiting the subject, and those that exploit them.

[Gunny]

Concerning the 1863 emancipation proclamation another thing to note about Lincoln's acts during that time is that in December of the same year Lincoln used his war powers and issued a "Proclamation for Amnesty and Reconstruction", which offered Southern states a chance to peacefully rejoin the Union if they maintained the emancipation of slaves and collected loyalty oaths from 10% of their voting population. Southern states did not readily accept the deal.

But yep, the status of slavery remained uncertain for the north in 1863 since they weren't included in the proclamation. Lincoln didn't free ALL the slaves But the 1865 13th amendment did immediately after the civil war.

Why should they? They had every right to seceed if they wanted. There was no law against it. Lincoln saw something that didn't exist. There was no clause when joining the Union that said you can't leave.

If I join a gym and don't like it, are you telling me I can't quit? The fact is, the US economy would have collapsed without the South.

[Gunny]

just for the record.
i've had Perriane on ignore for about a month now.
what i've read from her on these issues adds no historical or newsworthy content and is typically pitiful ignorant racist cracks and gibberish.

Very manly of you.