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  1. #31
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    The Orange Grove: What Michael Moore left out of 'Sicko'
    His film bent over backwards to make socialized medicine look superior
    By RICHARD RALSTON
    Executive director, Americans for Free Choice in Medicine, in Newport Beach

    Michael Moore's comedy-drama "Sicko" presented a great deal of misinformation – too much to summarize in a short column. Besides, if anyone in the audience really believes that all Cubans receive superb health care when Moore's cameras are not running, there is not much I can say to help them.

    However, those who have seen the film should at least be aware of some of the information that was left out.

    After bemoaning the amount of money that Americans spend on health care, Mr. Moore castigated the "greed" of an insurance company for not providing routine and immediate approval of a medical procedure in the 1980s that might have saved a patient's life at a cost of $500,000. He did not mention whether there should be an upper limit on any procedure, no matter how experimental or expensive, and what that would do to health care costs. $1 million? $10 million? That would surely provide incentives for a lot of medical experiments.

    When Moore described health maintenance organizations as the creation of a dark and evil conspiracy by Richard Nixon, for some reason he forgot to mention that Nixon's enthusiastic partner in pushing the HMO Act of 1973 through a Democratic-controlled Congress was Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.

    He also forgot to mention that the Clinton administration's health care proposals in 1994 would have forced most Americans into HMOs.

    Longer life spans in Canada were cited as proof that Canada has a superior health care system. Moore forgot to mention how many Canadians die in traffic accidents, are shot by criminals, are killed in combat, are addicted to illegal drugs, have diseases primarily afflicting racial minorities, or are obese, compared with Americans. He also forgot to establish whether Canadians started living longer only after they nationalized their health care system, or whether they always lived longer than Americans. He did not mention that if they do live two years longer, they need to – because that is how long they often have to wait for surgery.

    When Moore filmed two of his relatives buying health insurance in fear before they traveled to America, he forgot to mention that many Canadians travel to America for the express purpose of spending their own money for more than $1 billion in American health care each year.

    Moore interviewed a physician in the British National Health Service about how wonderful free health care is in Britain, and how satisfied the physicians are in the NHS. He forgot to mention that more than one third of physicians working for the NHS buy private insurance so they don't have to rely on the "free" care, and that more than 6 million British citizens also buy private insurance for the same reason. He did not mention that this year the health minister admitted that one in eight British patients still wait for more than a year for treatment. He neglected to say that Britain has had to import more than 20,000 physicians in the past three years – chiefly from Middle Eastern and Asian countries – because so few of the British, after sixty years of experience with the NHS, want to enter or stay in the profession.

    While praising the superiority of French medical care and the fact that French doctors make house calls – almost as an aside while praising the superiority of every element of French society compared with America's – Moore forgot to mention that 13,000 Frenchmen died of heat prostration and dehydration during a heat wave in the summer of 2003, when most French physicians were on summer vacation and did not show up in emergency rooms, let alone make house calls.

    Michael Moore forgot to mention why he jammed seriously ill patients into a small boat to take them to Cuba, in order to film a stunt attempting to prove the superiority of Cuban health care – when, for much less money, he could have written them a check for care in America. It must have been compassion.

    Most importantly, when Mr. Moore mentioned that "every industrial country" except the United States has adopted medical socialism, he did not mention why that means that we should. Many of those countries still have monarchies. Should the United States? Many of those countries have established state religions. Should the United States? Many of those countries have long waiting lists and severe rationing of health care.

    Should the United States?

    http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/he...7-moore-forgot


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

  2. #32
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    How long does it take for this website to load the movie? I'm having to wait too long and I'm becoming impatient. I need instant gratification!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

  3. #33
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    Like I said, the link is broken.

    I'm still lookin for one that works.

    Sorry.
    A man once said to me "you can get used to anything when money is involved".

    He used to stuff weasels up his ass for twenty bucks a throw.

    -Spyder Jerusalem

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    How long does it take for this website to load the movie? I'm having to wait too long and I'm becoming impatient. I need instant gratification!!!
    I believe he said the movie's not on there anymore, jerky!
    Free the West Memphis 3.... http://www.wm3.org

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyder Jerusalem View Post
    Then watch it for free right here.


    http://openflv.com/watch?v=MzM0NzQ2MQ==&p=0

    Or are you such a shit sucking fascist that you don't give equal consideration to both sides of an argument?
    Banned from thread.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  6. #36
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    Waiting lists.... Another problem with socialized medicine

    The woman of 108 told to wait 18 months for hearing aid
    By STEVE DOUGHTY and NICK McDERMOTT - More by this author »

    Last updated at 22:28pm on 29th July 2007

    A woman aged 108 has been told she must wait 18 months before the Health Service will give her the hearing aid she needs.

    Former piano teacher Olive Beal, one of the oldest people in Britain, has poor eyesight and uses a wheelchair.

    The delay could mean she will be unable to communicate and listen to the music she loves.
    Continue...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Heart View Post
    Waiting lists.... Another problem with socialized medicine
    We have waiting lists here too. Ever known anyone who needed a heart or a kidney? That's a tad-bit more serious. Puh-leez.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

  8. #38
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    Yeah for things like transplants where you have only so many coming in... BUT for hearing aids. Something that isn't requiring someone to die to get.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    I believe he said the movie's not on there anymore, jerky!
    Yes, I would like some jerky. I prefer teriaki flavor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Heart View Post
    Waiting lists.... Another problem with socialized medicine
    As the great Yogi Berra once said,"this feels like deja vu all over again!"

    It's about under-funding, not "socialised medicine"
    "Unbloodybreakable" DCI Gene Hunt, 2008

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Heart View Post
    Yeah for things like transplants where you have only so many coming in... BUT for hearing aids. Something that isn't requiring someone to die to get.
    If you have a fixed budget to administer a system you have to make decisions about priorities. A hearing aid doesn't trump a life-saving procedure.
    "Unbloodybreakable" DCI Gene Hunt, 2008

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    Is it worth watching then? I have it on disc

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    We have waiting lists here too. Ever known anyone who needed a heart or a kidney? That's a tad-bit more serious. Puh-leez.
    In the UK you wait for clean sheets as well

    Hard-up hospital orders staff: Don't wash sheets - turn them over
    by DANIEL MARTIN - More by this author »

    Last updated at 23:22pm on 13th April 2007


    Cleaners at an NHS hospital with a poor record on superbugs have been told to turn over dirty sheets instead of using fresh ones between patients to save money.

    Housekeeping staff at Good Hope Hospital in Sutton Coldfield, have been asked to re-use sheets and pillowcases wherever possible to cut a £500,000 laundry bill.

    Posters in the hospital's linen cupboards and on doors into the A&E department remind workers that each item costs 0.275 pence to wash.

    Good Hope reported a deficit of £6million last year and was subject to a report by the Audit Commission because of its poor financial standing.

    It recorded 36 cases of MRSA from April last year to January, while cases of clostridium difficile have more than doubled in less than a year to 327. A Government hit squad was drafted in to solve the infection problems last year but the trust is still failing to hit MRSA targets.

    Tony Field, chairman of Birmingham-based MRSA Support, said: 'Is that all the safety of a patient's life is worth? 0.275 pence?

    'It is utterly disgraceful and tantamount to murder because hygiene like changing sheets is essential to protect patients.

    'It proves beyond all doubt that cost- cutting is directly contributing to hospital acquired infections.'

    A Good Hope spokesman said the posters went up around two years ago and should all have been taken down by now. But a medic insisted the posters were still on display in A&E and the maternity unit as recently as the past month.

    'It is clear the trust is encouraging staff to "top 'n' tail" used sheets on a bed instead of replacing them between patients,' said the health worker, who did not wish to be named.

    'The very nature of A&E should be enough reason to change sheets between every patient as casualty sees patients who have come in with a variety of infections, traumatic injuries and blood spill.'

    Conservative healthvehealth spokesman John Baron said: 'This sounds ludicrous and is a real cause for concern given that MRSA is such a problem in our hospitals.

    'This matter needs to be investigated at a higher level. Patient safety must never be compromised.'
    Liberal Democrat health spokesman Norman Lamb said: 'If we are to beat healthcareacquired infections we need the highest possible standards of cleanliness. The idea of turning over sheets like this is extraordinary and scandalous.'

    The scheme is one of many ways that cash- strapped trusts are trying to save money.

    In January, staff at West Hertfordshire NHS Trust were amazed to receive a memo urging them to save £2.50 a day by prescribing cheaper medicines, reducing the number of sterile packs used, cutting hospital tests and asking patients to bring drugs in from home.

    Epsom and St Helier Trust in South London has removed every third light bulb from corridors.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1774


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

  14. #44
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    Fixed budget. I don't know what sort of budgeting approach is being used but if there's no waste then clearly the budget is insufficient and central govt has to put more money into it.
    "Unbloodybreakable" DCI Gene Hunt, 2008

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by diuretic View Post
    Fixed budget. I don't know what sort of budgeting approach is being used but if there's no waste then clearly the budget is insufficient and central govt has to put more money into it.
    You mean by raising taxes on the already over taxed people?


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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