Three Cheers For Ebay and Etsy

[Abbey Marie]

the history and origin of traditions, and traditions of faith are very important.
And we celebrate origins all the time. the 4th of July is an origins celebration.

to me if Christmas is about Jesus Christ then what does the tree have to do with it?
I can make up story to "today" to mask over the history and keep the fun of the tradition if i want too. but if my goal is to mainly celebrate Jesus's birth then why should i tack on this questionable tree bit? why not take into account the WHOLE of history rather than limit my thinking recent history, to what i want and my feelings.

point is on some issues people can make the decisions on issues of faith based on whatever they want.
The full history or recent history or just personal feelings. In most areas of faith the history and reality of a thing is VERY important. But the tree and eggs are at best sideshow issues. They are NOT vital parts of the faith. They can be dropped WITHOUT harm to Jesus Christ.... and it may help to have less distractions. But people can use what ever criteria they want to base their decision on here it seems to me.

Rev, if you want to reach back to some old custom that no one would ever remember if it wasn't brought up (usually) by non-Christians, to attack Christmas, feel free. I prefer to live in current times, and attribute the overwhelmingly positive customs to it. Further, I know that my faith is strong enough to withstand the presence of... wait for it... a tree! Surely yours is as well?

Look up the history of almost any natural object (rocks, wood, water), and you can surely find some ancient odd association with it. Shall we do away with them all, because our faith fears the past? What would be left?

(Btw, we have 1 tree, but about 8 Nativities around the house. So, if objects have the power you ascribe to them, I think Satan is being kept at bay quite well at 8-1 ).

[Voted4Reagan]

Because ancient Egyptian Pagans worshiped the Sun.... I fully expect all those intolerant of Pagans to try and extinguish it because the ATEN may be summoned and become angry.

Happy Solstice to all...

It is the Day of the ATEN...

[tailfins]

Rev, if you want to reach back to some old custom that no one would ever remember if it wasn't brought up (usually) by non-Christians, to attack Christmas, feel free. I prefer to live in current times, and attribute the overwhelmingly positive customs to it. Further, I know that my faith is strong enough to withstand the presence of... wait for it... a tree! Surely yours is as well?

Look up the history of almost any natural object (rocks, wood, water), and you can surely find some ancient odd association with it. Shall we do away with them all, because our faith fears the past? What would be left?

(Btw, we have 1 tree, but about 8 Nativities around the house. So, if objects have the power you ascribe to them, I think Satan is being kept at bay quite well at 8-1 ).

Perhaps a careful study of what actually does and doesn't summon demons is in order. At the end of the day what matters is not provoking God's anger. God can curse an individual, family or even a nation with the result being widespread misery.

[WiccanLiberal]

Everyone feel free to include trees, eggs and anything else you feel inclined to in your various celebrations. They are symbols. They take on the meaning you choose to give them. I set up a Yule tree every year. My friends call theirs a Christmas tree. The point is we are both observing a celebration of life and rebirth in the depth of the winter. An affirmation of the fact that life triumphs. Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way. The fact that certain retailers choose to express a spirit of religious intolerance is a loss only for those who rely on others to do their spiritual work.

[revelarts]

Everyone feel free to include trees, eggs and anything else you feel inclined to in your various celebrations. They are symbols. They take on the meaning you choose to give them. I set up a Yule tree every year. My friends call theirs a Christmas tree. The point is we are both observing a celebration of life and rebirth in the depth of the winter. An affirmation of the fact that life triumphs. Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way. The fact that certain retailers choose to express a spirit of religious intolerance is a loss only for those who rely on others to do their spiritual work.

that's a very nice sentiment. I can't say i agree with it very much though. but it's a free country.

I do have one question. about what you said.
" Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way."

that's sounds very nice, but as they say "the devils in the details" "more or less".

I'm sorry i'm so blunt here but I'm a guy and like crystal clear talk if possible. I'm not trying to be offensive. you're free to do what you like.
Some roman catholics like to pray to/through Mary and dead Saints
Muslims pray to Allah
Hindus prayer to "a million" gods.
I know some Africans that pray to "Shango" basically an african Thor or Zues.
My prayers are to God via Jesus Christ exclusively. and the apostles and prophets instruct me that to pray any other way is to pray to nothing or fallen angels. I don't believe we all ultimately are praying to the same god or forces just by different names. I believe there are in fact many different spirits people are praying to. Spirits that aren't all on the same page much less the same ultimately.

But you say your "spells" are "prayers" more or less, Prayers to who exactly?

[tailfins]

that's a very nice sentiment. I can't say i agree with it very much though. but it's a free country.

I do have one question. about what you said.
" Spells are nothing more or less than prayers expressed in a different way."

that's sounds very nice, but as they say "the devils in the details" "more or less".

I'm sorry i'm so blunt here but I'm a guy and like crystal clear talk if possible. I'm not trying to be offensive. you're free to do what you like.
Some roman catholics like to pray to/through Mary and dead Saints
Muslims pray to Allah
Hindus prayer to "a million" gods.
I know some Africans that pray to "Shango" basically an african Thor or Zues.
My prayers are to God via Jesus Christ exclusively. and the apostles and prophets instruct me that to pray any other way is to pray to nothing or fallen angels. I don't believe we all ultimately are praying to the same god or forces just by different names. I believe there are in fact many different spirits people are praying to. Spirits that aren't all on the same page much less the same ultimately.

But you say your "spells" are "prayers" more or less, Prayers to who exactly?

That's the dividing line right there! If someone prays to nothing, I can tolerate that. It's the fallen angels that are terrifying. They are the ones that devour like a roaring lion.

[darin]

Bingo. Modern Christianity is ruined, as an establishment. Today's Church gives way too many shits about the wrong thing, yet carries on traditions (regardless of their origins) as if they are gospel.

And Christianity arose out of the Pagan religions and adopted many holidays/festival days.

The two are one in the same... Remember your Yule tree REV... Pagan Symbol.

and dont forget those Ostara Eggs...Same thing.