America was founded as a Christian Nation

[glockmail]

I was debating an ACLU attorney at Christmas on an NPR station. I pulled out a Xerox copy of The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States and said to her:

"Until you answer this book, the ACLU can't make a case against America's Christian founding." She was shocked when she saw it. She asked where I had gotten it. The only thing that gave her relief was the fact that the book was not in print. But now it is.

Morris packs The Christian Life and Character with page after page of original source material making the case that America was founded as a Christian nation. The evidence is unanswerable and irrefutable. This 1000-page book will astound you and send enemies of Christianity into shock. Keep in mind that it was published in 1864 and has been out of print for more than a century. It has been newly typeset using a very readable font and added subheads. A new Foreword written by my long-time friend Dr. Archie Jones describes the background of the book and provides a brief biography of the author." --Gary DeMar

http://www.earlychristianamerica.com/index.html

[GW in Ohio]

http://www.earlychristianamerica.com/index.html

Oh, fuck you.

This country was founded by a bunch of Deists and renegade Christians who had seen first-hand what dogmatic Christian dogma can do to wreck people's lives and they definitely were against identifying this country with any one religion.

You might argue that this is a Christian nation because most people are nominally Christian, but there is no official religion.

And most of the people who are nominally Christian couldn't give a rat's ass about going to church or practicing Christianity.

[glockmail]

Oh, fuck you.

.....

As you have failed in every debate you've been in and ignored several previous direct challenges, then why should I take you seriously now?

[GW in Ohio]

As you have failed in every debate you've been in and ignored several previous direct challenges, then why should I take you seriously now?

And fuck your straw man challenges.

[Nukeman]

And fuck your straw man challenges.

My aren't we the testy one today!!!!!!!!!!

[Hagbard Celine]

BS. The US was founded as a secular nation by Christians. If you notice, they included judicial, legislative and executive branches of the government. I've never heard of any "theological" branch. You're wrong.

[LOki]

http://www.earlychristianamerica.com/index.html

A complete "give me a dollar" lolercaust. Welcome to the church of dumb.

[Pale Rider]

Well if the founding of America WASN'T rooted in Christianity, then where did all this come from?

IN GOD WE TRUST
HISTORY OF THE MOTTO OF THE USA

Introduction.

In our times, the concept of freedom of speech joined with scientific rationalism has brought our forefathers’ allegiance to a higher power, usually titled as God, under fire. Repeated litigation demanding the eradication of the word God, and references to a higher power, from all government activities has caused early and cherished American traditions to be banned. The goal of the godless dissenters is to turn this democracy into a secular government that ignores its traditional faith roots.

It is little known that the removal of references to God would cause the rejection and removal of our national anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner.” The last stanza of Key’s poem, now the national anthem of the United States is:

“And this be our motto: ‘In God is our trust.’”

And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave

O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.’


How this came to be:

Some world changing events happened to Francis (“Frank”) Scott Key in September of 1814 during a trip to Baltimore. Traveling under a white flag, Key met with both an enemy general and admiral, recovered a war prisoner, became a war prisoner, watched a historical bombardment, lost a night’s sleep, and wrote our national anthem. Along with all that, he created the best known, and most succinct statement of blind faith ever known.

The anthem he wrote was, of course, “The Star Spangled Banner.” In its fourth stanza, Key closed with the words, “And this is our motto - ‘In God is our Trust!’” That line was both his statement of faith and a prophecy. Shortened in 1864 to “In God We Trust,” to fit a newly designed two-cent piece, it quickly earned its popular place as America’s unofficial motto. In 1955, Congress ordered it placed on all United States’ currency.

This motto of the most powerful nation in world history now rides piggyback on the most coveted currency on earth. Every day millions of people of every nation and religion read our faith confession. It is known everywhere.

While the currency is coveted, the faith underlying its value is often neglected, and sometimes even scorned. Being such common tender, “In God We Trust” has become a jaded cliché to many who carry it in their pockets and purses. Its message is least understood by criminals of every shade and place who obtain it by lawless means.

The simple and implied blind faith of the motto deserves our review and reaffirmation. At the same time, it is inspiring to revisit the man and events that forever established Key’s place in American history.

On June 18, 1812, the upstart United States declared war on England, then one of the world’s most powerful nations. Being then involved in a war with France, England was unable to respond with immediate vigor. In efforts to blockade each other, both England and France had been interfering with American shipping. Neither respected American sovereignty, but the English were the more abusive. American crews were captured and forced to crew on British ships. Congress declared war on England in order to preserve “Free Trade and Sailors’ Rights”.

In 1814, after neutralizing Napoleons navy England dedicated enough troops and ships to discipline its former colony. A large English force arrived in Chesapeake Bay on August nineteenth, and by the evening of the twenty-fourth, they had attacked, captured and torched the capital.

Their attack was sudden, unexpected and mostly unopposed. So rapid was their advance, that President Madison left the White House without his wife, Dolly, and hastily fled across the Potomac River. Later when Dolly had to run, she saved Start’s portrait of George Washington by breaking it from its frame, and taking it with her. Glow from the flames from the burning city, including both the White House and the capital, could be seen in Baltimore, forty miles away. Providential rains, coming at dawn on the twenty-fifth, dampened the fires and saved the city. The following day, more fires were started but once again thunderstorms saved America’s capital.

Their dirty deeds now finished, the English left town. Withdrawing to their ships, the British soldiers took along a prisoner, the elderly and revered physician, William Beanes. According to some reports, Beanes was arrested for making uncomplimentary remarks to a few over-sensitive invaders. History has not recorded what Dr. Beanes potent comments were which so offended the soldiers. Whatever he said or did, by those actions he was destined to be a key player in the historical epoch that would soon unfold.

The people of Baltimore began preparing for the attack they knew was coming. Baltimore’s protective Fort McHenry was readied for battle by its commander, Major George Armistead.

In the fort’s store, there was a giant forty-two foot flag, destined to be remembered forever. In 1813, with Hancockian flourish, Armistead asked for a flag so large, “the British would have no trouble seeing it from a distance.” Flag maker Mary Young Pickersgill was hired to design and make it.

The resulting banner had fifteen stars two feet across from point to point. Spaced in five rows of three, they proudly and brightly stood out on the flag’s royal blue field. The stripes were eight red and seven white, each two feet wide. The flag parts were cut from four hundred yards of wool bunting by Mary and her thirteen-year old daughter, Caroline. Finally sized at thirty by forty-two feet, the flag was much too large to be assembled in the bedroom where it was designed and cut. The local Claggett Brewery’s malt house floor was borrowed for laying out the parts and sewing them together. Completed in August 1813, the flag cost $405.90.

History’s great moments usually come out of mundane events, so it was no great historic call that brought Francis Scott Key into the forefront of this American historical drama. He was asked to go on a mission to free Dr. Beanes, and dutifully he went.

Key, a man of faith and an Episcopalian by persuasion, had practiced law in Washington since 1805. The well-known attorney had presented several cases before the Supreme Court. A veteran of the current war, he had served at the battle of Bladensburg, Kentucky.

Hearing of Dr. Beane’s capture, the locals feared for his life. Believing that the brutal British would string their favorite physician from a yardarm by his neck, they sought Key’s help. He accepted their call, and enlisted the aid of Colonel John Skinner, an experienced American agent for prisoner exchange.

Having gained President Madison’s approval, Key and Skinner borrowed a sloop in Baltimore. Under a white flag of truce, they sailed toward the British fleet to find its flagship, Tonnant. On the seventh of September, they found the Tonnant and were allowed to board by British Commanders Admiral Alexander Cochrane and General Robert Ross.

After Cochrane and Ross heard Key’s petition for Beanes’ release, they refused to free him. Key and Skinner then presented letters from wounded English soldiers still being held as American prisoners. In the letters, Dr. Beanes and their American captors were praised for the fair treatment English captives received. With a change of heart, Ross and Cochrane agreed to free Beanes. However, release was delayed pending the progressing British attack on Fort McHenry.

Because they had seen and heard too much about English battle plans and preparations, Key, Skinner and Beanes were confined to their boat under guard. Placed behind the enemy fleet, some eight miles below Fort McHenry, they watched the twenty-five hour bombardment.

Fort McHenry’s guns were deadly at close range. American cannon sank twenty-two English vessels that tested Yankee aim. For the final assault, English ships lay outside the fort’s range. On the morning of September 13th, promptly at seven, their bombardment began. The fort responded by flying the great flag and holding fire.

During the next twenty-five hours, English ships fired over 1,500 shells at the fort, stopping the cannonading at dusk. Quiet prevailed until one o’clock the following morning. Shelling then began again with renewed intensity. Rain streamed through the dark sky to magnify the lights and colors flashing from British cannons, rockets, and bombs.

Ordinance of the era included erratic rockets fired from special small boats. Cannons lobbed two hundred pound fused bombshells. Throughout the night, rockets followed by red, wavering trails glared in the rain. Unreliable fuses caused many bombshells to explode in midair. It was a spectacular show.

The three American prisoners anxiously endured a sleepless night. Continual shelling was a sign the fort had not surrendered. Several hours before daybreak, the bombardment stopped. The foreboding quiet implied a fearful message. Imagining that the fort had fallen, Key, Skinner, and Beanes waited for daylight to look for the flag. Unknown to them, the British had abandoned their attack, and ordered a retreat, because of diminishing ammunition supplies.

As the dawn broke, Francis Scott Key looked to the fort for the one sign that would tell the battle’s outcome. It was there. The giant flag was still there. Fort McHenry stood defiant and undefeated. Inspired by relief and joy, Key took paper from his pocket and began writing the poem that would become “The Star Spangled Banner”. He closed It with his statement of faith, “this be our motto; ‘in God is our trust!’”

Key’s poem was published in the Baltimore Patriot’s September 20, 1814 issue. There it was suggested the poem could be sung to the tune of an English song, “Anacrean in Heaven”. Publicly performed to great acclaim in October of that year, its popularity was insured forever. Both the Army and the Navy adopted the song as their unofficial national anthem. Official acceptance of Key’s poem as America’s national anthem was completed by Congress on March 3, 1931.

The great motto and statement of faith, “In God We Trust” was a little slower gaining public attention. During the dark days of the civil War, both North and South hoped for God’s mercy and protection. Each side wanted to believe their cause was in God’s will. Trusting in God was important to the people in those times. Honoring God was thought to be the source and requirement for national strength and success.

The Union cause fared poorly during 1861. On the thirteenth of November of that year, a minister of the gospel from Pennsylvania wrote of his concerns to the government. In a letter to Salmon P. Chase, then Secretary of the Treasury, The Rev. Mr. M. R. Watkinson wrote, “One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins”.

Chase agreed. That same week, in a letter dated November twentieth, he wrote to Mint Director, James Pollack: “No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest...words possible this national recognition.”

By December, Pollack offered Chase designs for three new coins along with two suggested mottoes. These were “Our country; our God” and “God, our Trust”. Chase approved but offered suggestions to amend the statements.

He replied, “I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with ‘Our’, so as to read: ‘Our God and our country’. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read, ‘In God we trust’”.

On April 22, 1864, Congress passed an act authorizing “In God We Trust” to be struck on a new bronze two-cent piece. The following year, on the third of March, Congress passed an act permitting the motto to be used on any other coins having enough space for it. Finally, in 1955, Congress ordered it put on all United States’ currency.

In our times, “The Star Spangled Banner” is honored as the expression of our nation’s heritage and confidence in its destiny. Standing with hands over hearts, and often with tears in their eyes, Americans sing it often with reverence and joy.

The motto causes a different reaction. It is received in silence, contemplated in private, and most often ignored. Rarely read in public, it is only occasionally mentioned by those who are seldom out of its presence. But what does it mean? What does it mean to trust God? How can a group of people with diverse religious beliefs affirm as a nation that we trust God both individually and collectively? What did Key mean when he wrote it?

Are we using the motto on our currency as a magic talisman, agreeing with Salmon P. Chase, “No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense?” Does the motto express a personal faith that we believe is somehow collectively held by all Americans?

A recent Gallop poll showed that ninety-six percent of us believe in God or a Universal Spirit. No data is available revealing what percent actually do trust in God. Almost ninety percent say religion is important in their lives. In some way, this ninety percent do trust in God. Fearing ridicule, few make public faith expressions. Most Americans seem to have a quiet kind of limited trust from their personal and private faith. “In God we trust” remains a proper American national motto, even though trust is too often a last resort, and not an “around the clock” life style.

Even when the motto is generally accepted, it seems as if agreement on the definition of trust is not. Trust has almost as many definitions as there are people. That is because faith, the root of trust, is poorly understood and thought to be only a last resort, ill advised for modern reasoning people. Faith as radical, blind trust is rarely encouraged either in church or in school. Usually faith is seen as a creedal or an intellectual statement and not as a relationship with God. Few know that faith is total trust in God with a life lived in a “let go and let God” attitude.

Blind and radical trust in God requires a complete handing over of self to Him without regard or concern about how He will direct your life or what He will supply. It is based on trust that God loves you more than you love yourself, and is wiser than you ever will be. With His combination of power, love and wisdom, He will do more for us than we can do on our own.

A problem with this is that before we meet God, we cannot imagine He can or will direct life’s events in our favor. We think, before meeting God “face—to—face,” that we are on our own, and can only survive by our wits and self-concern.

Once we realize God is always watching over us, we can seriously consider giving Him our life to rule. Seeing His providence at work, now we can give God the credit and glory for all our good fortunes. The more God is trusted, the more freely He works His daily providence (miracles) in the life of a believer. By giving God the credit for leading us, for ordering our footsteps and giving good gifts, we stop giving credit to false gods. Popular false gods of our times are Luck, Fate, Talent, Money, Intellect, Knowledge, Appearance, and Power.

To those who have not applied the national motto, trusting God in faith seems to be foolishness, superstition, and weakness. Faith, for those who have made the step of blind trust, is the best life choice - a life lived in God’s hands. This new way of living changes cursings into blessings that are energized by continual thanksgiving.

In God we trust!


http://www.christian-community.org/l...odwetrust.html

[Hagbard Celine]

Doesn't change the fact that the US government is secular and always has been.

[Pale Rider]

In God We Trust: The Motto

One of the first found references of the motto “In God We Trust” is heard in the U.S. National Anthem, The Star-Spangled Banner. The son was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 and later adopted as the national anthem. In the last stanza Key writes a variation of the phrase: “...And this be our motto: In God is our trust. And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave, O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.” The words were shortened to In God We Trust and first applied to U.S. coins in 1864.

In God We Trust: The History

The U. S. Department of Treasury states “the motto, IN GOD WE TRUST, was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins.

From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania. As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition. It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States.”
Pollock suggested "Our Trust Is In God," "Our God And Our Country," "God And Our Country," and "God Our Trust." Chase picked "In God We Trust" to be used on some of the government's coins. The first time "In God We Trust" appeared on our coins was in 1864 on the new two cent coin, and by 1909 it was included on most the other coins. During the height of the cold war, on July 11, 1955, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed Public Law 140 making it mandatory that all coinage and paper currency display the motto.

In God We Trust: The Foundation

American history demonstrates repeatedly that the nation was founded on Christian principles and its founding fathers wished to acknowledge that fact all over Washington D.C. buildings, in official documents, and historical speeches. Less than a hundred years after its Declaration of Independence, In God We Trust was proclaimed on its coins. America is a free nation, and freedom of religion is still guaranteed in the Constitution’s First Amendment.

President Thomas Jefferson wrote, "The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time" and asked ‘Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are of God?’"

The Bible says:
"It is better to trust the LORD than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118:8).

"He has put a new song in my mouth, praise unto our God; many shall see it, and fear and will trust in the LORD" (Psalm 40:3, NKJV).

"It is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works" (Psalm 73:28 NKJV).

"The fear of man brings a snare: but whoever puts his trust in the LORD shall be safe" (Proverbs 29:25 NKJV).


http://www.allabouthistory.org/in-god-we-trust.htm

[glockmail]

And fuck your straw man challenges.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...9&postcount=29



Straw man?

[Pale Rider]

Doesn't change the fact that the US government is secular and always has been.

Right.... that's why "IN GOD WE TRUST" is splattered all over everything from our government buildings to official documents to money. That's real secular.

[-Cp]

Oh, fuck you.

I find your tone appalling.....and uncalled for...

[LOki]

Well if the founding of America WASN'T rooted in Christianity, then where did all this come from?

IN GOD WE TRUST
HISTORY OF THE MOTTO OF THE USA

Introduction.

[werdz]

In God we trust!


http://www.christian-community.org/l...odwetrust.html

Not a single mention of Jesus, or Christ. I think Hagbard is right about that Deist business, moreover those who demand this Christian Nation business never manage to overcome the ratification of the Bill of Rights which clearly sets the notion that the government of this nation is not contingent upon, or subject to, any ecclesiastic doctrine what-so-ever.

I will however concede that trusting in God is more appealing to me that trusting the Federal Reserve.

[Hagbard Celine]

I find your tone appalling.....and uncalled for...

Yeah, because you're a regular angel in this department