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  1. #1
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    Default The United States of Secession

    The United States of Secession


    One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. For those of you who didn’t recite this every day from grades 1 through 12, that’s a snippet of the Pledge of Allegiance. And we’re guessing plenty of readers in America, a nation of debaters and free thinkers, take issue with some of those phrases. But the trickiest bit in there might be the most innocuous: one nation.

    Every state in the union has or has had at least one secession movement.

    After the 2012 election, 69 separate petitions with more than 675,000 names were submitted to the White House “We The People” petition site. (We know so because we painstakingly counted.) Naturally, you might hear that and think, Wow, 675,000 nutjobs! That’s a lot of nutjobs. But as we were digging, we discovered some credible people in this scene, from Ivy League professors to presidential candidates like Ron Paul. Some of these groups have intricate, almost corporate structures that convey a level of seriousness far beyond the knee-jerk of “I hate the new president — time to move to Canada.” And they’re persistent. Groups in Texas have been utterly unrelenting in their drive to secede; a host of proposed states and even micronations want to form within the borders, some of which go back almost a century. The South may have given up, but Texas didn’t.

    Then there’s Vermont. The land of all things maple, it’s also the only state to successfully secede from New York, and the state has its own secession movement in the Second Vermont Republic, a nod to the short-lived attempt between 1771–1791. Plus, you’ve got Killington, Vermont, displaying New Hampshire’s flag in its town office to complicate things. Yes, a town in Vermont wants not only to secede, but also to join New Hampshire.

    Secession is far from all-American. Scotland made international headlines last year when it tried to break from the U.K., and while the measure didn’t pass, nearly 45 percent of the population voted for it. Quebec has been shooting for sovereignty since the 1960s via a number of political groups, some fringe and violent, but the primary sovereignty group is part of mainstream government. Venice and Catalonia have also sought to secede. Algeria actually broke ties with France in 1962 after a full-scale war. Then there’s a tea party in 1773 … and a crew of rebel colonists who didn’t want their children to grow up with English accents.

    But could secession ever happen in modern America? Jason Sorens thinks so. A lecturer in the government department at Dartmouth, Sorens is also founder of New Hampshire’s Free State Project. According to Sorens, our current government is “too big and too distant” for everyday people to influence it, and seceding could restore a balance of power. But if a state is looking to separate, it’s got to do more than, say, boost its Facebook following. Article 4, Section 3 of the Constitution makes it tough for the aspiring secessionist. Cindy Ellsmore of Keep It California, a group that opposes one secession project that would blend rural Northern California and Southern Oregon into the state of Jefferson, lays it out: Potential Jeffersonians would need to woo three Board of Supervisor members from all counties in the affected area, she says, before taking it to the California legislature, and then to Congress.

    Nor would the state be viable, according to Ellsmore. Breaking off with no credit, a portion of their parent’s state’s debt, and a lack of support networks? Not a good idea, but it hasn’t stopped Jefferson from trying since 1941.

    Plenty of others remain undeterred. Rob Williams, co-founder of the Second Vermont Republic, cites George W. Bush’s “election thefts,” and what he calls “the collapse of the U.S. Republic following 9/11” as “the last straw.” He sees Article 4, Section 3 not as a deterrent but rather as validation. “Secession is constitutional, legal and part of the U.S. political fabric,” he says.

    Perhaps someday you’ll need a passport to stock up on maple candy.
    obama and his insane policies, illegal actions is why so many states/groups are considering leaving the Union!
    And who can blame them?
    Texas has the best shot at doing that and if it does I am moving there as quick as a rattlesnake strikes! -Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    obama and his insane policies, illegal actions is why so many states/groups are considering leaving the Union!
    And who can blame them?
    Texas has the best shot at doing that and if it does I am moving there as quick as a rattlesnake strikes! -Tyr
    I don't care for Texas much. Been there quite a few times visiting friends and such BUT many of them see Mississippi as a better option WTSHTF. I agree, however. If the REPUBLIC of Texas does wise up and leave the so-called Union, I'll consider doing the same....even though it'll be hard to leave my home, land and church.

    Still, I see more of a FIGHT here than in Texas right now so aren't you glad you leave close by. Tennessee is going quickly and that does actually bother me a great deal.

    With the next war, lines will be very difficult to draw as the Nation is so divided.......it is more likely to be city against country folk (EVERYWHERE).
    NEVER MESS WITH AN
    IRISH/SCOTT/ITALIAN CHEROKEE!

    "A wise man is at the right hand but a fool is at the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2
    "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalms 53:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by red state View Post
    I don't care for Texas much. Been there quite a few times visiting friends and such BUT many of them see Mississippi as a better option WTSHTF. I agree, however. If the REPUBLIC of Texas does wise up and leave the so-called Union, I'll consider doing the same....even though it'll be hard to leave my home, land and church.

    Still, I see more of a FIGHT here than in Texas right now so aren't you glad you leave close by. Tennessee is going quickly and that does actually bother me a great deal.

    With the next war, lines will be very difficult to draw as the Nation is so divided.......it is more likely to be city against country folk (EVERYWHERE).
    It will be patriots against appeasers , fools , asshats, dems , libs, leftists and other assorted sheeple and blinded idiots. If much of our military joins the patriots against them, they lose quickly and utterly.
    If not its up for grabs but either way it could sink this nation.
    Still its likely sunk if not action is taken.Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    It will be patriots against appeasers , fools , asshats, dems , libs, leftists and other assorted sheeple and blinded idiots. If much of our military joins the patriots against them, they lose quickly and utterly.
    If not its up for grabs but either way it could sink this nation.
    Still its likely sunk if not action is taken.Tyr
    Yep. It would truly be MUCH better (IF) it were another N vs S thing again because we are no longer VASTLY outnumbered, have technology, industry and military (volunteers) who are greatly seasoned. Besides, we were practically born shooters........and that's without the military teaching us a damn thing as some of the more prevalent liars on this forum would have others believe.

    Our problem will be (IF) we are disarmed like the Marines in recent news were disarmed. Once we are disarmed......THEY (the left and the mooSLUMS) will most definitely show their ugly side.
    NEVER MESS WITH AN
    IRISH/SCOTT/ITALIAN CHEROKEE!

    "A wise man is at the right hand but a fool is at the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2
    "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalms 53:1

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    The total population of Texas is about 27.5 million. So even if every one of the 675,000 signatures in the OP were a Texans, that would represent less than 2.5% of the states population...

    While the OP opines "Naturally, you might hear that and think, Wow, 675,000 nutjobs! That’s a lot of nutjobs." I'd consider 675,000 to be a few nutjobs.
    Last edited by Noir; 07-23-2015 at 03:10 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    obama and his insane policies, illegal actions is why so many states/groups are considering leaving the Union!
    And who can blame them?
    Texas has the best shot at doing that and if it does I am moving there as quick as a rattlesnake strikes! -Tyr
    Texas has never needed the United States. Some mistaken people thought we did.

    And we got plenty of rattlers for your ass, bro. Come on down. Just bring your boots. Those f*ckers LOVE to hit you in the ankle.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    obama and his insane policies, illegal actions is why so many states/groups are considering leaving the Union!
    Well, that's a crazy reason to secede from the Union. He'll be leaving soon...

    Then what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Texas has never needed the United States. Some mistaken people thought we did.

    And we got plenty of rattlers for your ass, bro. Come on down. Just bring your boots. Those f*ckers LOVE to hit you in the ankle.
    Or one could have a latte in downtown Austin.
    Experienced Social Distancer ... waaaay before COVID.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    The total population of Texas is about 27.5 million. So even if every one of the 675,000 signatures in the OP were a Texans, that would represent less than 2.5% of the states population...

    While the OP opines "Naturally, you might hear that and think, Wow, 675,000 nutjobs! That’s a lot of nutjobs." I'd consider 675,000 to be a few nutjobs.
    They're not "nutjobs", Noir. While I might not want those people to be a majority, they are the ones that push back when the government gets too arrogant. I applaud the people that "shadowed" the military during Operation Jade Helm.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...helm-campaign/
    Experienced Social Distancer ... waaaay before COVID.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indago View Post
    Well, that's a crazy reason to secede from the Union. He'll be leaving soon...

    Then what?
    He has some more time to add to the massive damage already done and increase the leftist foundation and massive anti-American bureaucracy already firmly laid.
    Do you when(if) he ever leaves that will just vaporize???
    Even with determined and constant effort it would take over a decade to reverse most of it and we would not ever get that kind effort.. -Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
    Or one could have a latte in downtown Austin.
    Austin is a blight on Texas. Most of us try to pretend it ain't there.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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