A Few Thoughts

[Perianne]

There are more rational candidates it seems to me with far superior, and actual, conservative credentials that could use the support. I fear that there are too many who just glom on to the "talk first, 'splain later (or not at all)" ethos.

To me this all speaks to the need to educate the populace on actual conservative values even to those who already support the party. It's startling to me that even Fox is starting to anger the same people who would reliably rise to defend them before.

It is this attitude that pushes his supporters ever further away. It implies that others would feel the way you do if only they understood things as well as you do.

I support Trump... somewhat... for his stance on kick out the illegals. That does not make me any less knowledgeable about conservative values than what you, Kathianne, and Gunny have. It only means my focus is different than yours. To me the illegal situation is the most important situation of all. We stop the illegals or they will destroy any chance for conservative success.

[fj1200]

I'm pretty sure we're in agreement here. We seem though to be a minority among this board, which as I said in the beginning is a microcosm of the conservative base. I'm not by nature 'extreme' in much, including politics. I am however conservative. I'm closer to libertarian in thinking than 'party.' Truth is, parties are about the elite, not governing.

I think those supporting Trump are 'principled' in their beliefs. Repeating myself here, they want their values and beliefs encoded in laws. Those strong in party are fighting for that. Doesn't matter which party, that's their ultimate goal.

That's where the fun is. I would only slightly disagree on parties, they are about winning elections... or at least should be.

[Kathianne]

It is this attitude that pushes his supporters ever further away. It implies that others would feel the way you do if only they understood things as well as you do.

I support Trump... somewhat... for his stance on kick out the illegals. That does not make me any less knowledgeable about conservative values than what you, Kathianne, and Gunny have. It only means my focus is different than yours. To me the illegal situation is the most important situation of all. We stop the illegals or they will destroy any chance for conservative success.

I think this post is a good example of what we see playing out on the larger field. The fighting within is what is going to lead to a conservative loss or liberal win, however one wants to put it.

Again, perhaps that's for the best. My guess is that many more are going to eventually not vote or vote for other parties. The liberals are not going to split.

Best guess is the next cycle will see two versions, at least, of 'conservative' parties.

[fj1200]

It is this attitude that pushes his supporters ever further away. It implies that others would feel the way you do if only they understood things as well as you do.

I support Trump... somewhat... for his stance on kick out the illegals. That does not make me any less knowledgeable about conservative values than what you, Kathianne, and Gunny have. It only means my focus is different than yours. To me the illegal situation is the most important situation of all. We stop the illegals or they will destroy any chance for conservative success.

I asked the question and you practically refused to answer.

No explanation would be acceptable to those who have to ask.

As to this focusing only on illegals... it's focusing on one thing that will still cause you to lose because you gave up your ideals on everything else. Conservatism shouldn't be about circling the wagons.

[Perianne]

I think this post is a good example of what we see playing out on the larger field. The fighting within is what is going to lead to a conservative loss or liberal win, however one wants to put it.

Again, perhaps that's for the best. My guess is that many more are going to eventually not vote or vote for other parties. The liberals are not going to split.

Best guess is the next cycle will see two versions, at least, of 'conservative' parties.

Kathianne, I hope that doesn't happen. Even though I disagree with some of the candidates, I would vote for any of them over a Democrat.

But I was one of those who refused to vote for McCain. I voted third party instead. I viewed McCain as possibly worse than Obama. I believed that then and I believe it now.

[Perianne]

As to this focusing only on illegals... it's focusing on one thing that will still cause you to lose because you gave up your ideals on everything else. Conservatism shouldn't be about circling the wagons.

I view illegal immigration as THE most important issue. Actually, at this point, it is the only issue. Again, if we lose this immigration battle, we lose it all. We do not have enough Republican voters to overcome hordes of imported Democratic ones.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne, I hope that doesn't happen. Even though I disagree with some of the candidates, I would vote for any of them over a Democrat.

But I was one of those who refused to vote for McCain. I voted third party instead. I viewed McCain as possibly worse than Obama. I believed that then and I believe it now.

Which certainly was your right. Others will do the same, for as principled reasons as your own.

I don't doubt the sincerity of those supporting Trump. What is clear to me though, is that at some level they know he's not a solution, just a voice.

Many seem angry towards us that don't agree that he is what is needed. In fact, I think he's dangerous for the country in the sense that times are dangerous and it seems to me not the best time to be making 'statements' instead of looking for best choices to address the dangers.

I pray I'm wrong and that a better outcome for the long run arises. More importantly that time is on the side of that.

[fj1200]

I view illegal immigration as THE most important issue. Actually, at this point, it is the only issue. Again, if we lose this immigration battle, we lose it all. We do not have enough Republican voters to overcome hordes of imported Democratic ones.

It's not a zero-sum game to me. What's the point of winning if you've given up every other conservative value to win one. You won't be able to overcome the voters who will flee a Republican party full of xenophobes.

[Kathianne]

For the record, I view foreign policy and our economy as my most important issues today. Borders, not immigration are in my top 10.

[fj1200]

For the record, I view foreign policy and our economy as my most important issues today. Borders, not immigration are in my top 10.

We can handle immigration. We just need to win the damn election first.

[Kathianne]

We can handle immigration. We just need to win the damn election first.

Unless Hillary is indicted or Black Lives Matter derail the Democrats, I've pretty much decided the Republican Party is imploding.

Barring the above, even perhaps if the first happens, Hillary or Biden will be the next president.

[fj1200]

Unless Hillary is indicted or Black Lives Matter derail the Democrats, I've pretty much decided the Republican Party is imploding.

Barring the above, even perhaps if the first happens, Hillary or Biden will be the next president.

I think it will come around. A strong focused candidate can do wonders.

[Kathianne]

I think it will come around. A strong focused candidate can do wonders.

Time will tell, the divisions are growing.

[revelarts]

To my way of thinking, this board is generally a microcosm of the conservative base of GOP...

that comment as a stand alone actually saddens me.
For various reasons, and more than many other comments i've read in a long time.

...Some of us pull one way, others another. Basically we want the same things, but we disagree on the methods. In reality, we do reflect what's been going on with the GOP for many years.
Some want to somehow turn the party into one that can make the federal government reflect their values and beliefs, turning those into laws that will ensure that their will be done. They want a strong federal government that reflects their values. They want their values encoded in law.
Others want the federal government to be fundamentally <s style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">changed</s> returned to something restricted by checks and balances and a federated system as laid out in the Constitution-something it hasn't been since the Civil War. Pretty much the federal government should be limited to war, borders, interstate issues, coinage, treaties, etc.
A split is inevitable methinks. Unlike the Democrats we are not going to somehow come to the meeting of the minds.
Trump isn't the problem, his statements and themes have caused those schisms to show themselves and YES the democrats are enjoying this. Conservatives? Not so much.
I'm pretty sure, have actually thought so for at least 3 election cycles, that there is going to be a 3rd party.
Here's an article related to this line of thought-forget the title, this is not being posted as a 'Trump sucks' post. While Trump may be the lightening rod, he's a symptom-not the cause. The rift is likely to cause a 3rd party, it would happen whether he's there or not:

To me Trump is like Obama in his early days.
He mouths a lot of vague things that somehow resonants with a large group.
Like Obama he's got no real political experience. And has the ability to claim whatever sounds good (or titillating) and no one can call him on his record outside of business.

you say some conservatives want to the constitution to go back to pre-civil war level , OK sure, but I think most of us would be satisfied if it went back to Pre WWII level, or Pre-Nixon.
many conservatives as you say just want the gov't to do what they like. constitution be hanged (except for the 2nd amendment).

Having said that I don't see the Trump with anything but very thin lips service to 1st group, and a lot of logs on the rhetorical fire to the 2nd group.

the 3rd group you haven't mentioned are the rich or primarily fiscal republicans who like his ZERO corporate tax and removal of the inheritance taxes, Vague tough talk about "protection" of U.S. companies in foreign trade etc.
I suspect IF by some tragedy that he becomes presidents THOSE promises will hit the congressional floor and executive order pen before anything on immigration, Iran or the constitution

It make me sad to think that many republicans are buying this guy.

Based on Trump's attitude, do many here think He'll REPEAL the imperialist presidential powers claimed by the last few CiCs or embrace them with some relish... to get the job done?

What values would those be?

exactly.

No explanation would be acceptable to those who have to ask. I personally can say that he took the firmest stance on illegal immigration. He made it front and center and for me that is enough to give him some support.

If you can't explain it how are others suppose to join you?
"values" are suppose to have some content. They should be able to be articulated clearly so the benefits can be seen by others. even if not agreed with. And a presidential candidate should place them in the context of WHAT policies they'll try to put in place to correct them.

IMO if the racist comments is what resonate with the GOP base then well the GOP deserves to lose.
I know some Roman Catholics (conservative whites -who worked with Nancy Reagan-) who pray that we get MORE south americans in the country. why? Because they are more conservative than the home grown Americans. They are more religious and moral (strong catholics and protestants) , more family oriented, and are entrepreneurial. Pro-life And have children at replacement rates.

Immigration can be dwelt with but if the GOPs base "values" are mainly race. Well, whatever.
If this board is a microcosm, the question is moot and I've said to much already.

[Drummond]

We can handle immigration. We just need to win the damn election first.

No, FJ, you don't. What you need is for the Republicans to kick your lot out !!

As for Trump ... maybe the Dems are enjoying the controversy. But I doubt very much that they're enjoying Trump's continuing success, even despite it.

I think that two things of value come out of all this .. assuming, of course (as I do) that Trump's popularity continues on as it is. One - the Dems, in order to counter it, will have to try very hard to neutralise it. Trouble is that, Dems being Dems, they'll go to disgusting extremes in the process. The more disgusting the extreme, the more they'll show themselves up for what they truly are - no bad thing !

[.. and maybe in the process, people will take another look at Megyn Kelly's own attack, and see how their tactics match ?]

Two - in viewing Trump remaining a front-runner, the other candidates will want 'a piece of the action'. They'll want some of that appeal for themselves. So, will we see candidates adapt themselves to do what it takes to appear more Trump-esque, be it in manner, or hardline decisions and policy ?

We live in interesting times !