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  1. #31
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    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...lped-conceive/

    Horgan: You were one of the originators of inflation theory. When and why did you start having doubts about it?

    Steinhardt
    : From the very beginning, even as I was writing my first paper on inflation in 1982, I was concerned that the inflationary picture only works if you finely tune the constants that control the inflationary period. Andy Albrecht and I (and, independently, Andrei Linde) had just discovered the way of having an extended period of inflation end in a graceful exit to a universe filled with hot matter and radiation, the paradigm for all inflationary models since. But the exit came at a cost -- fine-tuning. The whole point of inflation was to get rid of fine-tuning – to explain features of the original big bang model that must be fine-tuned to match observations. The fact that we had to introduce one fine-tuning to remove another was worrisome. This problem has never been resolved.

    But my concerns really grew when I discovered that, due to quantum fluctuation effects, inflation is generically eternal and (as others soon emphasized) this would lead to a multiverse. Inflation was introduced to produce a universe that looks smooth and flat everywhere and that has features everywhere that agree with what we observe. Instead, it turns out that, due to quantum effects, inflation produces a multitude of patches (universes) that span every physically conceivable outcome (flat and curved, smooth and not smooth, isotropic and not isotropic, scale-invariant spectra and not, etc.). Our observable universe would be just one possibility out of a continuous spectrum of outcomes. So, we have not explained any feature of the universe by introducing inflation after all. We have just shifted the problem of the original big bang model (how can we explain our simple universe when there is a nearly infinite variety of possibilities that could emerge from the big bang?) to the inflationary model (how can we explain our simple universe when there is a nearly infinite variety of possibilities could emerge in a multiverse?).
    I have to admit that I did not take the multiverse problem seriously at first even though I had been involved in uncovering it. I thought someone would figure out a resolution once the problem was revealed. That was 1983. I was wrong. Unfortunately, what has happened since is that all attempts to resolve the multiverse problem have failed and, in the process, it has become clear that the problem is much stickier than originally imagined. In fact, at this point, some proponents of inflation have suggested that there can be no solution. We should cease bothering to look for one. Instead, we should simply take inflation and the multiverse as fact and accept the notion that the features of the observable universe are accidental: consequences of living in this particular region of the multiverse rather than another.
    To me, the accidental universe idea is scientifically meaningless because it explains nothing and predicts nothing. Also, it misses the most salient fact we have learned about large-scale structure of the universe: its extraordinary simplicity when averaged over large scales. In order to explain the one simple universe we can see, the inflationary multiverse and accidental universe hypotheses posit an infinite variety of universes with arbitrary amounts of complexity that we cannot see. Variations on the accidental universe, such as those employing the anthropic principle, do nothing to help the situation.
    Scientific ideas should be simple, explanatory, predictive. The inflationary multiverse as currently understood appears to have none of those properties.
    These concerns and more, and the fact that we have made no progress in 30 years in addressing them, are what have made me skeptical about the inflationary picture....
    Last edited by revelarts; 06-08-2017 at 10:06 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  3. #32
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    More bad news for the Big bang with the new cool space telescope.
    They Expected to see one thing but are seeing something else. (in science that's called a failed prediction)
    but they're still trying to shoehorn in some materialists explanations or make up theoretical rescue devices/excuses.

    All the galaxies LOOK OLD.... for a start (as stated in this thread before.)

    JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE SHOWS BIG BANG DIDN’T HAPPEN? WAIT…
    https://mindmatters.ai/2022/08/james...t-happen-wait/
    Physicist Eric J. Lerner comes to the point:
    To everyone who sees them, the new James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) images of the cosmos are beautifully awe-inspiring. But to most professional astronomers and cosmologists, they are also extremely surprising—not at all what was predicted by theory. In the flood of technical astronomical papers published online since July 12, the authors report again and again that the images show surprisingly many galaxies, galaxies that are surprisingly smooth, surprisingly small and surprisingly old. Lots of surprises, and not necessarily pleasant ones. One paper’s title begins with the candid exclamation: “Panic!”
    Why do the JWST’s images inspire panic among cosmologists? And what theory’s predictions are they contradicting? The papers don’t actually say. The truth that these papers don’t report is that the hypothesis that the JWST’s images are blatantly and repeatedly contradicting is the Big Bang Hypothesis that the universe began 14 billion years ago in an incredibly hot, dense state and has been expanding ever since. Since that hypothesis has been defended for decades as unquestionable truth by the vast majority of cosmological theorists, the new data is causing these theorists to panic. “Right now I find myself lying awake at three in the morning,” says Alison Kirkpatrick, an astronomer at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, “and wondering if everything I’ve done is wrong.” [Update: Kirkpatrick has protested Lerner’s handling of this quotation. See Note below.]
    ERIC J. LERNER, “THE BIG BANG DIDN’T HAPPEN” AT IAI.TV (AUGUST 11, 2022)

    ....
    Last edited by revelarts; 08-29-2022 at 08:24 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    More bad news for the Big bang with the new cool space telescope.
    They Expected to see one thing but are seeing something else. (in science that's called a failed prediction)
    but they're still trying to shoehorn in some materialists explanations or make up theoretical rescue devices/excuses.

    All the galaxies LOOK OLD.... for a start (as stated in this thread before.)

    JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE SHOWS BIG BANG DIDN’T HAPPEN? WAIT…
    https://mindmatters.ai/2022/08/james...t-happen-wait/
    Physicist Eric J. Lerner comes to the point:
    To everyone who sees them, the new James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) images of the cosmos are beautifully awe-inspiring. But to most professional astronomers and cosmologists, they are also extremely surprising—not at all what was predicted by theory. In the flood of technical astronomical papers published online since July 12, the authors report again and again that the images show surprisingly many galaxies, galaxies that are surprisingly smooth, surprisingly small and surprisingly old. Lots of surprises, and not necessarily pleasant ones. One paper’s title begins with the candid exclamation: “Panic!”
    Why do the JWST’s images inspire panic among cosmologists? And what theory’s predictions are they contradicting? The papers don’t actually say. The truth that these papers don’t report is that the hypothesis that the JWST’s images are blatantly and repeatedly contradicting is the Big Bang Hypothesis that the universe began 14 billion years ago in an incredibly hot, dense state and has been expanding ever since. Since that hypothesis has been defended for decades as unquestionable truth by the vast majority of cosmological theorists, the new data is causing these theorists to panic. “Right now I find myself lying awake at three in the morning,” says Alison Kirkpatrick, an astronomer at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, “and wondering if everything I’ve done is wrong.” [Update: Kirkpatrick has protested Lerner’s handling of this quotation. See Note below.]
    ERIC J. LERNER, “THE BIG BANG DIDN’T HAPPEN” AT IAI.TV (AUGUST 11, 2022)

    ....
    Wonder what they're surprised about? You mean something didn't just explode out of nothing? Who'd have though that

    Maybe they'll find something else they can sell to justify all that money on a telescope.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  6. #34
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    anyone else been skimming the news here.

    The James Webb telescope has really got Big Bang cosmologist scrambling for MORE patches/excuses for the theory.
    It's amazing/funny to watch and listen to the repeated choruses & variations of:

    ---Just because all the new observations are NOTHING like we've Predicted for decades, that doesn't mean we're wrong...
    all it means is....---
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-21-2023 at 08:02 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  8. #35
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    Creationist predicted that the Webb telescope would find more and more OLD looking galaxies.
    and that's exactly what the the telescope shows.
    While the Big bang cosmologist are "SHOCKED" that fully formed galaxies" are found so close to the "big bang"
    "there should be not be enough time for them to form" (even though they have no observations of ANY stars every forming let alone galaxies)
    "we have to change our models" present shoehorns please
    because we can't just say we've been WAY wrong for so long.

    Also the Electric Universe model seems to be getting more traction.
    Because some of the pictures the Webb has taken reflex the Electric Plasma Physics they've done in experiments here on earth.
    Experiments, not computer models.
    Their experiments show that stars can create electrically charged concentric rings that can form various geometric shapes in the plasma of space.

    When big bang cosmologist saw the image of squarish rings around a star they called it "bonkers"
    Why are the people that say they know so much shocked, but the people who are "crazy" "fringe" not as surprised?





    (a lot of this stuff is above my pay grade but I get the gist of it. And the Big Bang cosmologist seem to be blowing smoke)
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-21-2023 at 10:09 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Creationist predicted that the Webb telescope would find more and more OLD looking galaxies.
    and that's exactly what the the telescope shows.
    While the Big bang cosmologist are "SHOCKED" that fully formed galaxies" are found so close to the "big bang"
    "there should be not be enough time for them to form" (even though they have no observations of ANY stars every forming let alone galaxies)
    "we have to change our models" present shoehorns please
    because we can't just say we've been WAY wrong for so long.

    Also the Electric Universe model seems to be getting more traction.
    Because some of the pictures the Webb has taken reflex the Electric Plasma Physics they've done in experiments here on earth.
    Experiments, not computer models.
    Their experiments show that stars can create electrically charged concentric rings that can form various geometric shapes in the plasma of space.

    When big bang cosmologist saw the image of squarish rings around a star they called it "bonkers"
    Why are the people that say they know so much shocked, but the people who are "crazy" "fringe" not as surprised?





    (a lot of this stuff is above my pay grade but I get the gist of it. And the Big Bang cosmologist seem to be blowing smoke)
    They want you to go above your paygrade o they can baffle you with bullsh*t.

    I'm sticking with their own simple science:

    How can something be created from nothing?

    How can one define the center of something when one cannot define its boundaries?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    They want you to go above your paygrade o they can baffle you with bullsh*t.

    I'm sticking with their own simple science:

    How can something be created from nothing?

    How can one define the center of something when one cannot define its boundaries?

    but the conclusion that it therefore must be a mysterious big bang does not follow.

    on edit: oh that's what you were saying also too.
    Last edited by AHZ; 07-24-2023 at 11:12 AM.

  13. #38
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    the highest pay grade is the f. you without f. you money.

    wu-wei.

    wabi sabi.

    Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one [a]cubit to his [b]stature?
    28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not [c]arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
    31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
    Read full chapterFoot

    Last edited by AHZ; 07-24-2023 at 11:19 AM.

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    SEEMS the telescope is pissing on conventional ideas of "Black Holes" as well.

    Something that the "electric universe" folks have never thought was real in the 1st place.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    SEEMS the telescope is pissing on conventional ideas of "Black Holes" as well.

    Something that the "electric universe" folks have never thought was real in the 1st place.
    ?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    ?
    the Webb space telescope is NOT seeing what they thought it would see if Black Holes were as described by the current consensus cosmology.
    So now they are thinking of ways to change the view to fit/shoehorn into the new observations or even considering dropping the whole idea of "black holes".

    While the the fringe "electric universe" model of the universe never accepted the idea of black holes in it's theory of the universe.
    seems another point for that model.

    if were going by the standard that the models that predicted the most things correctly is probably closest to the truth
    Then the new telescope is making the Electric Universe and Creationist models look pretty good.
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-27-2023 at 10:04 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    the Webb space telescope is NOT seeing what they thought it would see if Black Holes were as described by the current consensus cosmology.
    So now they are thinking of ways to change the view to fit/shoehorn into the new observations or even considering dropping the whole idea of "black holes".

    While the the fringe "electric universe" model of the universe never accepted the idea of black holes in it's theory of the universe.
    seems another point for that model.

    if were going by the standard that the models that predicted the most things correctly is probably closest to the truth
    Then the new telescope is making the Electric Universe and Creationist models look pretty good.
    Solution is easy. God created the universe. See how easy that is... Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    SEEMS the telescope is pissing on conventional ideas of "Black Holes" as well.

    Something that the "electric universe" folks have never thought was real in the 1st place.

    is it like Real GLobalism?

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    For the record Info About 'String theory' & "Inflation"
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    I was disappointed in the results and I am a creationist in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

    I was hoping they'd see the end (beginning) of the universe but beyond that see other universes.

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