Op-Ed: Talking with Liberals on Homosexuality

[TheSage]

So you think that a protectionist and isolationist policy is bestfor the opportunities and standard of living for the average citizen? What year are you living in, 1917?

I think immigration needs to be drastically reduced to a level such that wages are not suppressed too far too quickly. Borders have naturally functioned to serve this purpose all throughout human history. It's only recently that this internationalist notion that regular people deserve no protections, not even those historically valued ones such as border enforcement, has become prevalant and popular. The border does protect. Yes.

I'm an icon because I realize that this is a global economy and that America's and by proxy the people's standard of living is derived from capitalism and no shackles should be placed upon capitalism.

Capitalism should operate within the greater moral framework. We should not legitimize slave labor by allowing it as a resource on the international market. Think of it as kiddie porn. That's capitalism too.

Now with that being said America has prospered, the citizenry have become advanced and higly educated, they desire high paying technological jobs in our advanced society yet there still remains a labor segment to our economy and Americans simply are not lining up for these jobs.

But even tech skills and white collar training do not protect us from globalization. This is the flaw your argument relies on. Even those jobs are being sourced away from america, based on the same logic you use. When americans are being gouged on everything, we simply cannot take the low wages they pay indian or chinese developers. These disparities in the global economy are a strategic manipulation to drive americans out of the global workforce, by corporations who do not have our interests at heart.

I realize that these jobs are stil vital and the economies that are based upon this labor are also vital to America's continued power and prosperity. We have already in country a workforce willing to pitch in and get these jobs done but they are not citizens and currently not contributing financially into the system unless of course you count the taxes they pay on gas, sales etc. etc. so it only makes sense to grant them a path to citizenship and start collecting from them.

I care about America's continued prosperity, why don't you?

It makes more sense to kick them out, say no to globalism, and insist that americans maintain all skills at all levels of the income spectrum, and not allow manipulated "market forces" to make us dependant and unemployed.

[darin]

The Sage - how do you reconcile your acceptance of homosexuality with your claimed christianity?

[TheSage]

The Sage - how do you reconcile your acceptance of homosexuality with your claimed christianity?

Im not so sure it's anti-christian to be gay. I don't think jesus would fault a person for a birth defect.

[darin]

Im not so sure it's anti-christian to be gay. I don't think jesus would fault a person for a birth defect.

But God calls it sinful - not to be 'drawn' to people of the same gender - for whatever reason - but to be/do homosexuality. It's quiet clear.

But interesting choice of words. We try to fix/cure/help people all the time w/ 'birth defects' - would you support research in 'curing' people of their homosexual desires?

[TheSage]

But God calls it sinful - not to be 'drawn' to people of the same gender - for whatever reason - but to be/do homosexuality. It's quiet clear.

But interesting choice of words. We try to fix/cure/help people all the time w/ 'birth defects' - would you support research in 'curing' people of their homosexual desires?

Not by force. If people want to try to be reoriented on their own that'd be fine.

[darin]

Not by force. If people want to try to be reoriented on their own that'd be fine.

What about the first part of my statement? About how the bible is so cut-and-dry against homosexuality - saying the bevhavior is as sinful as murder, adultry, lying, etc...

[TheSage]

What about the first part of my statement? About how the bible is so cut-and-dry against homosexuality - saying the bevhavior is as sinful as murder, adultry, lying, etc...

I think it's too old testamenty for me. Jesus stressed love as opposed to strict legalism.

[OCA]

Im not so sure it's anti-christian to be gay. I don't think jesus would fault a person for a birth defect.

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=809

You're about as Christian as Louis Farrakhan.

Also Romans is in the new testament before you start your "too old testamenty" bullshit.

OWNED

[darin]

I think it's too old testamenty for me. Jesus stressed love as opposed to strict legalism.

Well, brother, either the bible is 100% true, or NONE of scripture has worth.

FWIW, Paul - who is VERY New Testamenty speaks on the issue.

In Romans 1:18-32 (he) condemns the practice in the severest terms. Homosexuality is "unclean," "impure," "dishonoring to the body," "vile," "degrading / disgraceful," "contrary to nature," "unseemly/ obscene," "improper activity of a depraved mind," "unrighteous," "wicked," etc. Of particular importance to the apostle in this passage is the fact that homosexuality is "unnatural"--contrary to nature. In other words, nature itself teaches that the practice is wrong; we all know it intuitively. Homosexuality is, then, a particularly rebellious sin.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 the apostle Paul speaks of homosexuals as "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind" who "shall not inherit the kingdom of God." The terms he uses here seem to be specific references to both active and the passive participants in a homosexual relationship. Such people are "unrighteous," he says, and if they remain in that practice they will be condemned.

[TheSage]

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=809

You're about as Christian as Louis Farrakhan.

Also Romans is in the new testament before you start your "too old testamenty" bullshit.

OWNED

THat's old jew stuff.

[darin]

THat's old jew stuff.

Brother - Christ was VERY supportive of old Jew stuff:

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-20

[TheSage]

Brother - Christ was VERY supportive of old Jew stuff:



Matthew 5:17-20

But then there's this too. I kind of depends on which jesus you want to believe in.


Matt 22:36-40
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 "This is the first and great commandment.
39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

[Nienna]

I think it's too old testamenty for me. Jesus stressed love as opposed to strict legalism.

False grace message... see the thread on casual sex. Read also Hebrews 12... ALL of Hebrews 12. God is MORE scary today than in ancient times, bc we have seen the revelation of His Being in Jesus Christ, and bc there is NO MORE sacrifice left for sin.

[TheSage]

False grace message... see the thread on casual sex. Read also Hebrews 12... ALL of Hebrews 12. God is MORE scary today than in ancient times, bc we have seen the revelation of His Being in Jesus Christ, and bc there is NO MORE sacrifice left for sin.

SO the salvation juice is all used up?

http://www.nomoretithing.org/ot_and_before.htm
is the Old Covenant Laws that were given to the Israelites that is the issue. No Christians that I am aware of are taught to perform animal sacrifice today. I believe Bible teachers are correct in not teaching animal sacrifice. However, the Israelites were directed to do that in the Old Covenant. Examples can be found at Leviticus chapter 3 verses 1-5 and Leviticus chapter 4 verses 1-12.

They were instructed to perform animal sacrifice for fellowship offerings, sin offerings, guilt offerings as well as other reasons. We are not taught that we should be performing animal sacrifice today so why are we taught that we should still be 'tithing'? More on that later.

[darin]

But then there's this too. I kind of depends on which jesus you want to believe in.


Matt 22:36-40
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 "This is the first and great commandment.
39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Because we Love people, we try to HELP them over their sin. Loving somebody has NOTHING to do with condoning their sin, Jason.