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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    Im not so sure it's anti-christian to be gay. I don't think jesus would fault a person for a birth defect.
    Is that a luke warm deflection, or don't you really know? In any case, let me show you. The Bible is pretty clear on homosexuality....

    Homosexuality: What Does God Say About It?

    The first reference to homosexuality in Scripture is in the infamous account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19. The wickedness of the men of that city is obvious and is of such a severe nature that it brought divine destruction upon the entire city. Both Peter and Jude make reference to it and describe the sin of homosexuality as " ungodly, lawless, unnatural and extreme immorality" (see 2 Peter 2:6, 8; Jude 7).

    In Leviticus 18:22 and 24 homosexuality is described as an "abomination" and "defiling." It is reprehensible and unclean.

    In Leviticus 20:13 it is again described as an "abomination" but here as one worthy of the death penalty!

    Deuteronomy 23:17 forbade the presence of a "sodomite" in the land of Israel.

    An incident similar to that of Sodom and Gomorrah is seen again in Judges 19. Again the sin of homosexuality is described as "wickedness."

    In 1 Kings 14, 15, and 22 the removal of male prostitutes from the land of Israel is viewed as a sign of much-needed spiritual reformation.

    The prohibition in Deuteronomy 22:5 of women wearing men's clothing appears to be a specific condemnation of transvestism.

    In Romans 1:18-32 the apostle Paul condemns the practice in the severest terms. Homosexuality is "unclean," "impure," "dishonoring to the body," "vile," "degrading / disgraceful," "contrary to nature," "unseemly/ obscene," "improper activity of a depraved mind," "unrighteous," "wicked," etc. Of particular importance to the apostle in this passage is the fact that homosexuality is "unnatural"--contrary to nature. In other words, nature itself teaches that the practice is wrong; we all know it intuitively. Homosexuality is, then, a particularly rebellious sin.

    In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 the apostle Paul speaks of homosexuals as "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind" who "shall not inherit the kingdom of God." The terms he uses here seem to be specific references to both active and the passive participants in a homosexual relationship. Such people are "unrighteous," he says, and if they remain in that practice they will be condemned.

    From all this we can draw at least the following three conclusions:

    1) Homosexuality is contrary to Scripture. There is no way to speak of any kind of acceptable or "Christian" homosexuality. There is never any allowance for it. It is never anything but sinful.

    2) Homosexuality is contrary to nature. It is a particularly rebellious sin, a violation even of one's own conscience.

    3) Homosexuality is worthy of severe judgment. The Mosaic law prescribed the death penalty for this sin. The apostle Paul specified that such people have excluded themselves from the salvation that is in Christ Jesus and are headed toward condemnation.
    http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstud...y/hompbia1.htm

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Because we Love people, we try to HELP them over their sin. Loving somebody has NOTHING to do with condoning their sin, Jason.
    I don't think a birth defect is the same as a sin, Darin, ANd neither would jesus, Darin. Darin.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    SO the salvation juice is all used up?
    She's saying Animal Sacrifices no longer WORK - as they did back then. She's saying if we don't accept Christ's sacrifice, NOTHING we can do will bridge the gap between us and God.

    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    She's saying Animal Sacrifices no longer WORK - as they did back then. She's saying if we don't accept Christ's sacrifice, NOTHING we can do will bridge the gap between us and God.


    It seem to me she was saying that christs saving grace had expired. Seriously.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    I don't think a birth defect is the same as a sin, Darin, ANd neither would jesus, Darin. Darin.
    So Paul was wrong? Paul had less of an understanding of Christ than you?

    (shrug).

    NOT-having sex with members of the same sex is means one is NOT 'homosexual'. However - LUSTING after members of the same sex, IS homosexuality - Christ explained - unless you don't believe this particular part of the bible - than putting lust and thought and desire into a sin is AS sinful as the act itself.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    It seem to me she was saying that christs saving grace had expired. Seriously.

    She wasn't.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    But then there's this too. I kind of depends on which jesus you want to believe in.


    Matt 22:36-40
    36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
    37 Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
    38 "This is the first and great commandment.
    39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
    40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


    "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands." 2John 1:6

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    So Paul was wrong? Paul had less of an understanding of Christ than you?

    (shrug).

    NOT-having sex with members of the same sex is means one is NOT 'homosexual'. However - LUSTING after members of the same sex, IS homosexuality - Christ explained - unless you don't believe this particular part of the bible - than putting lust and thought and desire into a sin is AS sinful as the act itself.


    So you subconsiously decided to be straight, after learning basic anatomy? You're so full of it. lol.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    So you subconsiously decided to be straight, after learning basic anatomy? You're so full of it. lol.
    It was innate. It was a normal biological desire. I wasn't molested or sexualized as a kid - that helps a LOT towards see people grow up 'normal'. I had the common sense to know the difference. People who choose a homosexual lifestyle, are missing that common sense, or have denied who they REALLY are and have accepted a destructive lifestyle.


    But answer the question: Do you believe you have a GREATER understanding of Christ and God and Sin and Life and Love, than did the Apostle Paul?
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    Im not so sure it's anti-christian to be gay. I don't think jesus would fault a person for a birth defect.
    please provide a link that proves being gay is a birth defect. it is no more a birth defect than being a murderer

    "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."

    ~Albert Camus

  11. #41
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    Sage... of all people... YOU... defending homosexuality. I find that curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu1959 View Post
    please provide a link that proves being gay is a birth defect. it is no more a birth defect than being a murderer

    Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenata...al_orientation
    The hormonal theory of sexuality holds that, just as exposure to certain hormones plays a role in fetal sex differentiation, such exposure also influences the sexual orientation that emerges later in the adult. Fetal hormones may be seen as the primary determiner of adult sexual orientation, or a co-factor with genes and/or environmental and social conditions.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    SO the salvation juice is all used up?
    Not exactly sure what you mean by this.

    But, God did not change once we hit the new testament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu1959 View Post
    please provide a link that proves being gay is a birth defect. it is no more a birth defect than being a murderer
    Nobody has to give a link for their opinion - only if they want to show they've FORMED their opinion on credible data...data that makes sense.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    She's saying Animal Sacrifices no longer WORK - as they did back then. She's saying if we don't accept Christ's sacrifice, NOTHING we can do will bridge the gap between us and God.

    Perfectly stated. Thanks, D.

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