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    Default Freedom of Speech

    Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

    So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

    -----

    Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

    If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

    Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

    As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

    So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

    ---

    So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?
    The problem with anyone infringing on speech is that the enforcers are fallible.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    The problem with anyone infringing on speech is that the enforcers are fallible.
    I agree. What is an insult to one person is benign to another. I'd rather not be the one to determine what rises to the level of an "actionable" insult. "insults" and the equivalent, personal issues, these things I think are best handled by the ignore button. I've felt this way since 2003. Apparently I'm like the only one.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    I agree. What is an insult to one person is benign to another. I'd rather not be the one to determine what rises to the level of an "actionable" insult. "insults" and the equivalent, personal issues, these things I think are best handled by the ignore button. I've felt this way since 2003. Apparently I'm like the only one.
    Jim, leave things the way they are now. This is a good forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perianne View Post
    Jim, leave things the way they are now. This is a good forum.
    Leave it alone, use the ignore feature.

    Otherwise grow the hell up...

    Former Forum Owner, Admin, and Chief Mod Sends...
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    Leave it alone, use the ignore feature.

    Otherwise grow the hell up...

    Former Forum Owner, Admin, and Chief Mod Sends...
    Agreed....if they goof up and blow $#!T out of their mouth like with the "total silence" thread......IGNORE THEM (or get with our info specialist, find out where they live and knock the $#!T out of their mouth so that they come back to the board (hat in hand) with a little more respect.
    NEVER MESS WITH AN
    IRISH/SCOTT/ITALIAN CHEROKEE!

    "A wise man is at the right hand but a fool is at the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2
    "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalms 53:1

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    I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind. When someone gets angry at me, they get angry with a segment of society. I don't come up with these ideas all by myself, I got many of them from somebody. Many come from trial and error. It's like getting angry at me because you don't like "tails" but when I flip a coin 100 times, but it comes up "tails" 50.

    I would go as far to say that insisting that someone embark on a failed course of action is an act of sabotage. I could just imagine some people at an Autism support group meeting saying, "Why yes, I think you should stay alone and unemployed. Just stay depressed instead of finding ways to "rev up" your brain function." Of course, I would call such a participant an idiot and proceed to tell the group to fix what torments them by any legal means necessary.
    Last edited by tailfins; 09-29-2015 at 10:31 AM.
    Experienced Social Distancer ... waaaay before COVID.

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    I have to say. all due respect to Wiccan and V4R. that IMO they have been fairly sensitive about their religious perspective. As Jim Mentioned Jafar took a lot of abuse. Gnot-a-christian was very aggressive in his anti christian attacks. Noir has been more personable but never really pulling punches on his critiques of religion. And most of us christians take it and try to reply .. or not.
    other members have come and gone that i can think of like wind song and some satanist dude that were pretty harsh on christains here and in general.

    It always kind of surprises me that on a debate forum some people get upset about someone here who honestly disagrees with them.
    I've had to remind myself of this from time to time.

    But Frankly touching religion .. no offense intended here just my observation... the people most sensitive to religious criticism have been Wiccan V4R and a few roman catholics.

    if there's criticism on those fronts it's often not replied to factually or doctrinally but with a more emotional response. sometimes outrage at the very suggestion that there may be something wrong with their chosen religion.

    if this were a ONE religion forum I might agree that random neg comments against the religion were completely out of line. But .. it's a debate forum.
    Where we talk about politics and religion.
    Funny, somehow people don't always agree.
    seems to me if you've got something to defend, defend it. Don't ONLY get pissed that someone REALLY thinks you're wrong.
    if you don't want to defend it, then ignore it as much as possible if you can.
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-29-2015 at 11:29 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
    I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind. When someone gets angry at me, they get angry with a segment of society. I don't come up with these ideas all by myself, I got many of them from somebody. Many come from trial and error. It's like getting angry at me because you don't like "tails" but when I flip a coin 100 times, but it comes up "tails" 50.

    I would go as far to say that insisting that someone embark on a failed course of action is an act of sabotage. I could just imagine some people at an Autism support group meeting saying, "Why yes, I think you should stay alone and unemployed. Just stay depressed instead of finding ways to "rev up" your brain function." Of course, I would call such a participant an idiot and proceed to tell the group to fix what torments them by any legal means necessary.
    I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind.
    OK, I'LL TAKE THAT BAIT--HERE GOES-

    TF, wake the hell up. You have no reason to try to be a crusader and doing so by way of pm 'ing
    Wiccan here is a damn big , no/no IMHO.
    This being in the lounge I'll be civil to you-at least as much as I can.
    You made your case and your objections known --so shut the hell up and stop stalking.
    Nobody here hangs on your every word and some of the crazy shat you vomit here is stupidity on parade IMHO.
    LIVE AND LET LIVE. SHE IS NICE TO EVERYBODY-DOESN'T TRY TO CONVERT YOUR DIM-ASS -SO CHILL DUDE!
    You are one damn messed up dude IMHO..-Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Personally.I have never had any problem with name calling, or references to religious beliefs here. My biggest problem has always been how simply some PRETEND they are someone, or something WE KNOW...they are not. To be more specific. LIES. Pure, unadulterated Lies by some who feel the comfort, and power of never being exposed for who they really are...or the consequences of such could bring them to being banned here.

    I've been around long enough to recognize, and understand how some anonymous people feel the power they can exert here...merely because they are able to pretend to be someone they could only wish, or hope to be in real life.
    The internet provides a safe sanctuary to everyone who enjoys the ability to pretend, rather than be honest with themselves, or others...because they can.
    Bottom line. Like politicians, and Obama.....I DESPISE LIARS...no matter where they are.

    You will never get rid of liars, nor can you IGNORE them hoping to make them go away.
    LIARS run everything. Just Think About it.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

    So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

    -----

    Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

    If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

    Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

    As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

    So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

    ---

    So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?
    Freedom of Speech has somehow (thanks to the idiot left) morphed into Freedom to be perpetually offended. Sorry, but that is NOT what it means, lefties.

    Here on this forum there are several alternatives to being perpetually offended. You can put someone on ignore. You can ask that they put YOU on ignore. And if someone actually trolls or insults you, you can report them. Hopefully, if the mods think they went over the line, they will act on your behalf. I think thread bans work wonderfully well, but that's just me.

    As for insisting on more enforcement here, nah. It's fine just the way it is. (my 2cents)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

    So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

    -----

    Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

    If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

    Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

    As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

    So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

    ---

    So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?
    I'm for freedom of speech on topics. I'm NOT for using the guise of freedom of speech for members to attack one another outside the Steel Cage. And there's no real line to draw. It's up to the judgement of the staff. When does a snide remark become an outright insult? Therein lies the problem. And you can't solve it. You're a leftwinger one minute, a rightwinger one minute, don't have any balls one minute ... know the drill.

    I think you don't need to change anything. I think some members need to change the way they think, and learn to appreciate what they have here and understand your position -- terminally stuck in the middle.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    All Whines & Snivels should go HERE

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    Quote Originally Posted by indago View Post
    All Whines & Snivels should go HERE
    You got a theme, dontcha?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

    So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

    -----

    Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

    If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

    Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

    As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

    So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

    ---

    So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

    ~ "then we should also reel in attacks on Islam." ~

    *Just my opinion here....You and many others still call islam a "religion"... Interesting....islam acts like no other Religion....Boggles the mind .....

    >Read carefully... 10 points made below.......*This is all I have to say on this matter....



    "Ten Obvious Reasons Why
    Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace"

    #1 18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).
    #2 Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killedfor insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
    #3 Muhammad said in many places that he has been"ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.
    Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and agluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives,enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
    #4 After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other.
    Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six monthsafter her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.
    Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death.
    Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.
    The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war...
    And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!
    #5 Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countriesoutside of Saudi Arabia.
    #6 Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.
    None of these other religions are at war with each other.
    #7 Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by formally threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.
    #8 Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
    #9 The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.
    #10
    "Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"
    (The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)








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