Freedom of Speech

[jimnyc]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

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Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

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So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

[fj1200]

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

The problem with anyone infringing on speech is that the enforcers are fallible.

[jimnyc]

The problem with anyone infringing on speech is that the enforcers are fallible.

I agree. What is an insult to one person is benign to another. I'd rather not be the one to determine what rises to the level of an "actionable" insult. "insults" and the equivalent, personal issues, these things I think are best handled by the ignore button. I've felt this way since 2003. Apparently I'm like the only one.

[Perianne]

I agree. What is an insult to one person is benign to another. I'd rather not be the one to determine what rises to the level of an "actionable" insult. "insults" and the equivalent, personal issues, these things I think are best handled by the ignore button. I've felt this way since 2003. Apparently I'm like the only one.

Jim, leave things the way they are now. This is a good forum.

[Elessar]

Jim, leave things the way they are now. This is a good forum.

Leave it alone, use the ignore feature.

Otherwise grow the hell up...

Former Forum Owner, Admin, and Chief Mod Sends...

[DLT]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

Freedom of Speech has somehow (thanks to the idiot left) morphed into Freedom to be perpetually offended. Sorry, but that is NOT what it means, lefties.

Here on this forum there are several alternatives to being perpetually offended. You can put someone on ignore. You can ask that they put YOU on ignore. And if someone actually trolls or insults you, you can report them. Hopefully, if the mods think they went over the line, they will act on your behalf. I think thread bans work wonderfully well, but that's just me.

As for insisting on more enforcement here, nah. It's fine just the way it is. (my 2cents)

[tailfins]

I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind. When someone gets angry at me, they get angry with a segment of society. I don't come up with these ideas all by myself, I got many of them from somebody. Many come from trial and error. It's like getting angry at me because you don't like "tails" but when I flip a coin 100 times, but it comes up "tails" 50.

I would go as far to say that insisting that someone embark on a failed course of action is an act of sabotage. I could just imagine some people at an Autism support group meeting saying, "Why yes, I think you should stay alone and unemployed. Just stay depressed instead of finding ways to "rev up" your brain function." Of course, I would call such a participant an idiot and proceed to tell the group to fix what torments them by any legal means necessary.

[revelarts]

I have to say. all due respect to Wiccan and V4R. that IMO they have been fairly sensitive about their religious perspective. As Jim Mentioned Jafar took a lot of abuse. Gnot-a-christian was very aggressive in his anti christian attacks. Noir has been more personable but never really pulling punches on his critiques of religion. And most of us christians take it and try to reply .. or not.
other members have come and gone that i can think of like wind song and some satanist dude that were pretty harsh on christains here and in general.

It always kind of surprises me that on a debate forum some people get upset about someone here who honestly disagrees with them.
I've had to remind myself of this from time to time.

But Frankly touching religion .. no offense intended here just my observation... the people most sensitive to religious criticism have been Wiccan V4R and a few roman catholics.

if there's criticism on those fronts it's often not replied to factually or doctrinally but with a more emotional response. sometimes outrage at the very suggestion that there may be something wrong with their chosen religion.

if this were a ONE religion forum I might agree that random neg comments against the religion were completely out of line. But .. it's a debate forum.
Where we talk about politics and religion.
Funny, somehow people don't always agree.
seems to me if you've got something to defend, defend it. Don't ONLY get pissed that someone REALLY thinks you're wrong.
if you don't want to defend it, then ignore it as much as possible if you can.

[revelarts]

But Tailfin, i have to say as well. IMO. there's no need to follow on EVERY post of Wiccan and V4R with a corrective commentary. No matter how benign your comment may seem to you it seems to be like sticking a knife into them.

There is a place for tact and for speaking the truth in love on these issues. right?
Just like your views (good and bad) come from others and long experience so do there's. I suspect if we all want to get closer to God's truth we all should allow people a bit of space to move to get a better perspective rather than only picking at the negative bits.

[gabosaurus]

Free speech does not exist on message boards. Everyone is subject to the whims of the administrators. If you don't believe me, go to DU. Where I have been banned twice.

As always, I believe in the Golden Rule. Whoever spends the gold to maintain the board, makes the rules.

Jim, I implore you to stop getting your feelings hurt so easily and toughen up. Same for everyone else. Just because someone insults your religious and/or political beliefs is no reason to get butthurt and crawl off.
Remember, DP is a message board. It's not real life. If you start getting too upset about how a conversation is going, you are always free to collapse your browser and leave.
In the end, it's all water off a duck's back.

[Black Diamond]

Keep things the way they are. If people are going to be whiny pussies in such instances as last night, they would have left eventually for some other reason. As you said, there's an ignore function.

[aboutime]

Personally.I have never had any problem with name calling, or references to religious beliefs here. My biggest problem has always been how simply some PRETEND they are someone, or something WE KNOW...they are not. To be more specific. LIES. Pure, unadulterated Lies by some who feel the comfort, and power of never being exposed for who they really are...or the consequences of such could bring them to being banned here.

I've been around long enough to recognize, and understand how some anonymous people feel the power they can exert here...merely because they are able to pretend to be someone they could only wish, or hope to be in real life.
The internet provides a safe sanctuary to everyone who enjoys the ability to pretend, rather than be honest with themselves, or others...because they can.
Bottom line. Like politicians, and Obama.....I DESPISE LIARS...no matter where they are.

You will never get rid of liars, nor can you IGNORE them hoping to make them go away.
LIARS run everything. Just Think About it.

[Abbey Marie]

If we have to heavy-moderate every religious disagreement, I want $50/hr!



For the record, I did not even see a personal attack in that thread. Which is to say, even if you changed the rules, I would not have moderated it.

[Black Diamond]

If we have to heavy-moderate every religious disagreement, I want $50/hr!



For the record, I did not even see a personal attack in that thread. Which is to say, even if you changed the rules, I would not have moderated it.

Maybe they were offended by the word "Jesus"

[gabosaurus]

I personally think the lot of you are messed up far right pagans who need Jesus!