Freedom of Speech

[aboutime]

I personally think the lot of you are messed up far right pagans who need Jesus!

That's really funny coming from you Gabby. Since God/Jesus created "Preparation-H"...just to make you able to TALK OUT OF YOUR BUTT!

[tailfins]

But Tailfin, i have to say as well. IMO. there's no need to follow on EVERY post of Wiccan and V4R with a corrective commentary. No matter how benign your comment may seem to you it seems to be like sticking a knife into them.

There is a place for tact and for speaking the truth in love on these issues. right?
Just like your views (good and bad) come from others and long experience so do there's. I suspect if we all want to get closer to God's truth we all should allow people a bit of space to move to get a better perspective rather than only picking at the negative bits.

I agree with your premise. How do I implement it? Assume I'm an idiot when you reply to this.

[Gunny]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

I'm for freedom of speech on topics. I'm NOT for using the guise of freedom of speech for members to attack one another outside the Steel Cage. And there's no real line to draw. It's up to the judgement of the staff. When does a snide remark become an outright insult? Therein lies the problem. And you can't solve it. You're a leftwinger one minute, a rightwinger one minute, don't have any balls one minute ... know the drill.

I think you don't need to change anything. I think some members need to change the way they think, and learn to appreciate what they have here and understand your position -- terminally stuck in the middle.

[indago]

All Whines & Snivels should go HERE

[Gunny]

All Whines & Snivels should go HERE

You got a theme, dontcha?

[LongTermGuy]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

~ "then we should also reel in attacks on Islam." ~

*Just my opinion here....You and many others still call islam a "religion"... Interesting....islam acts like no other Religion....Boggles the mind .....

>Read carefully... 10 points made below.......*This is all I have to say on this matter....

"Ten Obvious Reasons Why Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace"
#1	18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).
#2	Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killedfor insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#3	Muhammad said in many places that he has been"ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that. Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and agluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives,enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#4	After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other. Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six monthsafter her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph. Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death. Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph. The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war... And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!
#5	Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countriesoutside of Saudi Arabia.
#6	Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah. None of these other religions are at war with each other.
#7	Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by formally threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.
#8	Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
#9	The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.
#10	"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!" (The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)

[revelarts]

mostly, or at least it shouldn't.

[revelarts]

I agree with your premise. How do I implement it? Assume I'm an idiot when you reply to this.

I'm not sure if your serious or backhanding me here.
I'll PM ya later.

[tailfins]

I'm not sure if your serious or backhanding me here.
I'll PM ya later.

I despise vague instructions. If you can't flowchart it, I won't understand it.

[hjmick]

Fucker...


If you go heavy, I want in... make me a fucking Mod...


Otherwise, leave it the hell alone...


Folks, if you don't have grown up panties, get the hell out. Now.



















And don't come the fuck back.

[gabosaurus]

I despise vague instructions. If you can't flowchart it, I won't understand it.

[Black Diamond]

Fucker...


If you go heavy, I want in... make me a fucking Mod...


Otherwise, leave it the hell alone...


Folks, if you don't have grown up panties, get the hell out. Now.



















And don't come the fuck back.

That's it I am leaving.



And then coming back.

[hjmick]

That's it I am leaving.



And then coming back.

LOL


Leaving to buy some grown up panties I presume...


LOL

[Black Diamond]

LOL


Leaving to buy some grown up panties I presume...


LOL

Have to get to the store before they close

[WiccanLiberal]

I've spent a lot of time considering what to do about this. The suggestion V4R had, leaving the board, was given serious consideration. We both belong to other debate sites and enjoy posting there. However there are people here I have come to regard as friends and whose opinions I value. These people deserve better that an abrupt departure. It is also not in my nature to allow small minds to dictate my life. I have been advised to ignore the bullying and aggression. I see some of you don't get the difference in disagreeing with a person's choices and attacking them as inherently evil and morally damaged. I may tell you I think your religion is incorrect in it's theology and mine is right. However, you as a person have a right to believe as you will so long as it makes your life meaningful and worthwhile. There is the difference in how I have been treated and, yes, I resent it. Ignoring a bully will never make them go away. I am not going to use an ignore button. That is asking me to self censor what I understand about the threads here.
There is a member here who has repeatedly violated the rule against personal attacks. He has issue with me because of a core element of who I am and that DOES make it personal. What I intend to do is remain here and speak my truth as I see it. And each and every time the worthless troll makes one of his comments directed at me I will flag it to the moderators and make a record. Why keep a record? Because bullying like this often escalates. I intend to have sufficient information to prove a pattern if this very personal harrassment rises to an actionable level.
There is a black canker at the bottom of this man's soul. Perhaps he intends to make his own evil seem less by imputing ill to others.
To those of you who have had to deal with listening to this, I apologize if I have offended any whom I value. Some of you have taken the time and trouble to communicate with me privately and empathetically. I appreciate that.
And be assured, the witch is here to stay. Right now, I may need to throw some salt at my keyboard and smudge my router to remove all the negativity.