Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester, New York
    Posts
    67,823
    Thanks (Given)
    7315
    Thanks (Received)
    34146
    Likes (Given)
    7051
    Likes (Received)
    7758
    Piss Off (Given)
    14
    Piss Off (Received)
    19
    Mentioned
    514 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475724

    Default Man Demonstrates A Big Flaw In 911's Jet Fuel Argument

    My bet? This is George Bush in disguise, and the temperatures are off. No way in hell that steel can bend or give way like that!!

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/embed/89295" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  2. Thanks NightTrain, Perianne, Jeff thanked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    "your argument is invalid...get over it....find a job" is now going to be my standard reply to any of my opposition in Debate Policy.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  4. Thanks jimnyc, NightTrain, Abbey Marie, fj1200 thanked this post
  5. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    5,206
    Thanks (Given)
    5230
    Thanks (Received)
    5014
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I remember going to a construction site with my husband. They were spraying stuff on steel beams. I asked him what it was for. He said it was insulation for the steel. I asked why steel need to be insulated. He said if there was a fire the steel would soften and would not support the heavy weight it was designed to support. He said it would fail and THAT was why the World Trade Centers failed. The crash removed the insulation and exposed the steel to the heat.

  6. Thanks Elessar, Jeff thanked this post
  7. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Mouth of the Rogue River, Oregon USA
    Posts
    9,585
    Thanks (Given)
    8103
    Thanks (Received)
    7926
    Likes (Given)
    1479
    Likes (Received)
    1560
    Piss Off (Given)
    3
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19808673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Perianne View Post
    I remember going to a construction site with my husband. They were spraying stuff on steel beams. I asked him what it was for. He said it was insulation for the steel. I asked why steel need to be insulated. He said if there was a fire the steel would soften and would not support the heavy weight it was designed to support. He said it would fail and THAT was why the World Trade Centers failed. The crash removed the insulation and exposed the steel to the heat.
    Yet conspiracy theorists still insist it was an inside job or
    something the U.S. Government schemed up!
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    7,396
    Thanks (Given)
    11
    Thanks (Received)
    1501
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    47
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2067946

    Default

    (patiently)

    Steel in the WTC didn't melt.

    It got hot enough that its modulus of elasticity changed - meaning, it became a little more springy, though it was still nowhere near its melting point.

    So the loads built in top of it, which used to cause it to bend only a little (as per the original design), now caused it to bend a little more before the springiness of the steel stopped it. And that was enough bend to move the load off-center and make a longer "lever", causing the same load to now exert more bending force. Which caused it to bend a little further, and then a little further, etc., until it went past the point of no return and collapsed.

    This phenomenon is called "static instability", and is well known to any structural engineering student or professional.

    It's only unknown to wild-eyed conspiracy theory fanatics.

    Hopefully this explanation will keep the fanatics quiet for another period of time, until they feel enough people have forgotten about it that they can "reveal" their "new" conspiracy yet again as though it were true.
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

  9. Thanks Perianne thanked this post
  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    5,206
    Thanks (Given)
    5230
    Thanks (Received)
    5014
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
    (patiently)

    Steel in the WTC didn't melt.

    It got hot enough that its modulus of elasticity changed - meaning, it became a little more springy, though it was still nowhere near its melting point.

    So the loads built in top of it, which used to cause it to bend only a little (as per the original design), now caused it to bend a little more before the springiness of the steel stopped it. And that was enough bend to move the load off-center and make a longer "lever", causing the same load to now exert more bending force. Which caused it to bend a little further, and then a little further, etc., until it went past the point of no return and collapsed.

    This phenomenon is called "static instability", and is well known to any structural engineering student or professional.

    It's only unknown to wild-eyed conspiracy theory fanatics.

    Hopefully this explanation will keep the fanatics quiet for another period of time, until they feel enough people have forgotten about it that they can "reveal" their "new" conspiracy yet again as though it were true.
    Thanks, @Little-Acorn for the technical explanation. My husband didn't go into such details, but what he did tell me was enough for me to understand that every object has its limits. Even steel.

    I have often wondered if the Arabs anticipated what would happen or did they just want to crash planes into big buildings and got lucky.

  11. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    23,251
    Thanks (Given)
    7207
    Thanks (Received)
    11746
    Likes (Given)
    1048
    Likes (Received)
    1381
    Piss Off (Given)
    4
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475213

    Default

    If all of the known conspiracy theory junkies got together, and asked a Blacksmith to bend the SHOES for their Horses, or to make steel fences, and gates. What temperatures would they expect NOT to get if the Horse SHOES remain....STRAIGHT?????
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

  12. Thanks sundaydriver, Jeff thanked this post
  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    east Pa.
    Posts
    1,169
    Thanks (Given)
    438
    Thanks (Received)
    571
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    7
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    838786

    Default

    I never understood why some people thought the steel supports would have to melt for a heavy weight building to collapse. Steel becomes supple at less than half the melting temperature at which it changes crystal structure from ferrite to austenite which is at a lower temperature than burning jet fuel. Fun times in a metallurgical lab as a lab tech playing with fire.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    18,758
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Perianne View Post
    Thanks, @Little-Acorn for the technical explanation. My husband didn't go into such details, but what he did tell me was enough for me to understand that every object has its limits. Even steel.

    I have often wondered if the Arabs anticipated what would happen or did they just want to crash planes into big buildings and got lucky.
    A VIDEOTAPE seized by American intelligence agents in Afghanistan shows Osama bin Laden gloating over the attack on the World Trade Centre and expressing surprise that the twin towers had collapsed.


    The tape, found in a private home in Jalalabad, throws doubt on whether the two aircraft flown into the towers were deliberately aimed at places where their impact would destroy the entire structure.


    It emerged at the weekend that Mohammad Atta, ringleader of the terrorists and the pilot of the first aircraft to crash, had been in New York with another hijacker in spring last year.


    The visit was probably to carry out a reconnaissance mission but exact details of their movements have not been established.


    On the tape, bin Laden discusses the September 11 attacks in Arabic with a man who appears to be a cleric. He says he was at dinner when he heard the World Trade Centre had been hit - news that was greeted by cheers around the table.


    Using outstretched hands, bin Laden says he expected only the top floors of the World Trade Centre to topple. "He does in fact display significant knowledge of what happened and there is no doubt about his responsibility for the attack on September 11," said vice-president Dick Cheney on NBC television. "This is one more piece of evidence confirming his responsibility."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-to-fall.html
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  15. Thanks Perianne thanked this post
  16. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Studying my Lab Rat....
    Posts
    3,479
    Thanks (Given)
    154
    Thanks (Received)
    1641
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    14
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4167050

    Default

    Steel didn't melt... it got really hot and the Trusses broke away from the beams they supported.

    More of a Bowing...

    Old Fire Department saying... NEVER TRUST A TRUSS

    Conspiracy theorists can all go to Effing hell...
    You know, the last time I was in Germany and saw a man standing above everybody else, we ended up disagreeing.

    Captain America

  17. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    576
    Thanks (Given)
    96
    Thanks (Received)
    94
    Likes (Given)
    85
    Likes (Received)
    20
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Anyone who believes the government's explanation of anything is naive at best.

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    12,358
    Mentioned
    79 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4760244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GravyBoat View Post
    Anyone who believes the government's explanation of anything is naive at best.
    Anyone who doesn't believe the governments explanation for anything is naive at best.
    Last edited by Noir; 07-21-2016 at 06:22 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

  19. Thanks darin, CSM thanked this post
  20. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    18,758
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GravyBoat View Post
    Anyone who believes the government's explanation of anything is naive at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Anyone who doesn't believe the governments explanation for anything is naive at best.
    Anyone with a Venus Flytrap avatar is naive at best

    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Debate Policy - Political Forums