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  1. #1
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    Default Follow the law, or follow your faith: Obama’s outrageous order

    follow the law, or follow your faith: Obama’s outrageous order
    by frank pavone march 21, 2016 | 8:52pm


    long before the patient protection and affordable care act — a k a obamacare — became law on march 23, 2010, pro-life advocates, myself included, recognized that it could lead to serious moral clashes between faith and law, particularly in the areas of abortion and contraception.

    And we were right. The law empowered the department of health and human services to compel employers to provide contraception and abortion-inducing drugs and devices to their employees through their health-insurance plans.

    The case of priests for life vs. Hhs, one of seven cases comprising zubik vs. Burwell, now challenges that mandate in the supreme court, with oral arguments on march 23.

    Of the 37 plaintiffs in the current supreme court case — including the little sisters of the poor, the archbishop of washington, dc, and geneva college — we were the first to challenge the hhs mandate, which violates not only our beliefs, but is a head-on collision with the very purpose of our ministry, which is to lead people away from abortion rather than expanding access to it.

    As our case progressed, it reached the us court of appeals for the dc circuit, on which president obama’s new supreme court nominee, judge merrick garland, joined a 6-3 vote to deny us a hearing by the full court. As we pressed on, priests for life vs. Hhs made it to the supreme court.

    The contraception rule is unevenly enforced. Parish churches are exempt, and yet religious nonprofits like priests for life, who send our priests into those same churches and share in the same faith, aren’t.

    By what standard do uncle sam’s bureaucrats determine that some priests are more catholic than others?

    The government did come up with what it calls an “accommodation.” but the government itself describes the accommodation as a way for objectors to comply with the mandate, hence leaving our religious freedom still burdened.

    Well, this objector will not comply.

    A priest’s mission is to nurture the exercise of religion in those to whom he ministers. Yet the mandate would require us to violate that religion, in full view of those we teach to live it.

    It’s an unusual place to find myself after almost 28 years in the priesthood, as the feds sit in judgment on our beliefs. The government may disagree with our religious objections, but isn’t free to discredit them.

    The government wants our help to assure that nobody who wants coverage for abortion-inducing drugs and contraceptives will lack it. Yet in all the years of priests for life, not a single employee has ever objected that our insurance doesn’t cover these things.

    In fact, when i first announced our lawsuit in february 2012, all our employees applauded. No one on our staff wants priests for life to compromise its faith, even though this court battle could cause them to lose their health insurance or even their jobs.

    If we refuse to abide by the mandate, we’ll be fined so heavily that it could threaten our existence.

    I’ve led the new-york based priests for life since 1993. Its goal is to restore protection to children in the womb. We train the clergy and their churches in providing alternatives to abortion for those who feel they have no choice, and compassionate counseling through rachel’s vineyard, the largest ministry in the world for healing after abortion.

    Our silent no more awareness campaign gives voice to women and men who regret their abortion experiences and say so publicly. We’re a registered ngo at the united nations. Rev. Martin luther king’s niece, alveda king, leads our african-american outreach, and is a co-plaintiff in our case.

    The government doesn’t dispute the sincerity of our beliefs, nor the fact that it’s pressuring us to violate those beliefs. This is a textbook case of a burden on religious freedom that the law does not allow.

    Our case is not about making abortion or contraception illegal. It’s simply an objection to being forced to choose between following our faith and following the law. Every american should be free to do both at the same time.

    Fr. Frank pavone is the national director of priests for life.
    more of the destruction and division that the obama has promoted with his nation destroying agenda.. -tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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  3. #2
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    Didn't you argue previously regarding torture that the government wasn't beholden to Christian views or some such thing?
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Not for nothing, but you know he has you on ignore, so what's the point? I know Drummond has you on ignore as well, but also made a reference to you within a post, which also defeats the purpose. But if someone places another on ignore, then they should ignore that person. I just don't get the point now that things got his far.

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  6. #4
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    As our case progressed, it reached the us court of appeals for the dc circuit, on which president obama’s new supreme court nominee, judge merrick garland, joined a 6-3 vote to deny us a hearing by the full court.
    How interesting...
    After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown

    “Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
    -Abbey

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Not for nothing, but you know he has you on ignore, so what's the point? I know Drummond has you on ignore as well, but also made a reference to you within a post, which also defeats the purpose. But if someone places another on ignore, then they should ignore that person. I just don't get the point now that things got his far.
    Is that a new rule? But I digress, ignoring someone is not carte blanche authorization to say something that perhaps doesn't gibe. But now you've quoted it so maybe he'll explain the possible incongruity.
    Last edited by fj1200; 03-22-2016 at 09:19 AM.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Is that a new rule? But I digress, ignoring someone is not carte blanche authorization to say something that perhaps doesn't gibe. But now you've quoted it so maybe he'll explain the possible incongruity.
    No, it's not. But do you seriously need a new rule for every little thing? What was the point in you and the "finally" once you were placed on ignore, but then you continue to reply anyway? Maybe it's you that needs to place others on ignore, since you can't help yourself?

    I think it's clear, at least as of now, who the more aggressive person is in looking to continue the issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Is that a new rule? But I digress, ignoring someone is not carte blanche authorization to say something that perhaps doesn't gibe. But now you've quoted it so maybe he'll explain the possible incongruity.
    Additionally, I have removed both your quote, and mine. If someone is trying to utilize the ignore function, I will help them if necessary.

  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    I think it's clear, at least as of now, who the more aggressive person is in looking to continue the issues.
    I don't shy away from honest discussion. It just never comes back to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Additionally, I have removed both your quote, and mine. If someone is trying to utilize the ignore function, I will help them if necessary.
    Awesome. Ignorance lives on. He probably still thinks Arab countries didn't contribute to Operation Desert Storm.
    Last edited by fj1200; 03-22-2016 at 09:55 AM.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I don't shy away from honest discussion. It just never comes back to me.
    That doesn't matter. Honest turned into fighting a long time back and got ruined. Then things finally went to ignore. I simply fail to see a reason to rock that boat with the potential to bring things right back to that fighting.

    Um, no. Fights died is what happened. And it should be left at that, not with issues that were just put to bed.

  12. #10
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    I stopped fighting long before ignore. The whining didn't cease though.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I stopped fighting long before ignore. The whining didn't cease though.
    And someone is whining now, and forcing you to reply and try to instigate things back up again? I fail to see that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    And someone is whining now, and forcing you to reply and try to instigate things back up again? I fail to see that happening.
    Asking questions is not instigating.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    I give up then. I will just encourage the other 2 to continue on their path and try to stay with the ignoring. I think anyone reading beyond that point will get the point of what is happening going forward. It's difficult to judge when 2 folks are fighting/arguing, as to what is going on and who started what. Most simply don't care, don't want to get involved and just want to see it cease. But if the ignore feature is used, and only one person is reviving things that everyone knows was a long standing issue, I think they'll know who is responsible for what actions.

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  17. #14
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    I'm neither fighting nor arguing. I asked a question they are free to ignore.

    BTW, I have someone on ignore who repeatedly doesn't ignore me. What do I do? I continue to ignore them.
    Last edited by fj1200; 03-22-2016 at 10:20 AM.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    But to the point in general FJ,
    Yes, people are selective when they want "christian values" to be put toward the front where laws are concerned.

    everyone is to some degree.
    but we should try to be consistent.

    torture is obviously not a "christian value"
    abortion and euthanasia.. not a "christian value"
    Lying and Stealing (whether on corporate level selling known worthless paper for billions or lying about a car repair.) ...not a "christian value"

    But here gov't is FORCING religious people to do things against their faith/conscious that's not a "harm" to others. it's just wrong.

    Heck the Amish get an exemption to ride horse and buggies on the highways.
    If the gov'ts moving SO far away from it's Christian base then we'll need to get exemptions or more christians will just be going to jail.
    Last edited by revelarts; 03-22-2016 at 01:36 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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