'Muslims Get Out' Sign Isn't Racist

[revelarts]

When your "leaders" not only fail to admit there is a threat, but actually embrace un-vett-able refugees from these very wonky countries, and refuse to close our borders to illegal invaders, it breeds this kind of reaction.

It doesn't take a president's action ...or inaction... to "breed" this type of reaction.
It's a part of American history/DNA, and human nature.

[Trigg]

Again, the store owner is clearly targeting arab muslims. I doubt he'd care or notice a white female Canadian Muslim entering his diner.

If you stand an Saudi/Iranian next to a Spanish or Italian you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart. Most of the people in that part of the world have darker hair and a darker complexion than someone from England or Sweden. All are considered white/Caucasian.

Muslim is NOT A RACE it is a RELIGION. It's just as idiotic to say No Catholics and have someone ASS-ume you're talking about Mexicans.

[aboutime]

For those who disagree with whether that sign is racist.

Tell us if you'd prefer to see this one in it's place, and you'd say nothing!



How bout you pete????

[Abbey Marie]

It doesn't take a president's action ...or inaction... to "breed" this type of reaction.
It's a part of American history/DNA, and human nature.

I disagree. The leaders do set the tone, and none more than the President. And I would say that as a country we have been rather welcoming to people from all over the world, until they started trying to kill us.

[Abbey Marie]

It doesn't take a president's action ...or inaction... to "breed" this type of reaction.
It's a part of American history/DNA, and human nature.

I'm also wondering why you don't think the things I mentioned could easily have a negative effect on people. Must you see everything as the result of evil white person racism?

[pete311]

If you stand an Saudi/Iranian next to a Spanish or Italian you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart. Most of the people in that part of the world have darker hair and a darker complexion than someone from England or Sweden. All are considered white/Caucasian.

hmmm not hard at all if you travel a bit. Also northern Italians look much different than from Sicily.

[aboutime]

I'm also wondering why you don't think the things I mentioned could easily have a negative effect on people. Must you see everything as the result of evil white person racism?

Abbey. That's the constant impression I always seem to feel from rev as well. He pretends to be an equal opportunity hypocrite, but hides behind he actual dislike, and near hatred for anyone who doesn't look like him.
As I have personally experienced over nearly fifty years now. As a white person trying to be understanding, and compassionately willing to talk about the problems Black Americans have; I full well know, any attempts to do so usually end with a declaration that I am a racist, and unqualified to even discuss such problems.
It's almost a NO-WIN, anyway anybody tries.

[Trigg]

hmmm not hard at all if you travel a bit. Also northern Italians look much different than from Sicily.

Oh I have traveled, thank you very much. The skin tone and dark hair is very prevalent in that part of the world. All of which doesn't change the fact that Muslim is a religion and not a race.

[revelarts]

I'm also wondering why you don't think the things I mentioned could easily have a negative effect on people. Must you see everything as the result of evil white person racism?

I said "HUMAN Nature", really sorry you think I see "everything" as "evil white person racism". that's really not my POV.
I don' think i've used that term and In THIS thread I've said that labeling ANY Group as a boogie man is stupid.. "any" includes calling "white people" evil.

But to make make my point clearer. you said that the Muslim issues is a reaction to Obama.
I say NO, it's not so much Obama but the reaction is to the attacks by muslim extremist.
Instead of looking at the problem as primarily narrow group AMONG muslim, HUMAN NATURE and YES many white Americans reactions is to be "concerned" and angry at the whole GROUP, rather than do the hard work of sifting through the millions/billons of muslims to target the REAL potential threats. Threats in Islamic teaching and potential violence.

Is what I'm saying false?

I think you know I tend to deal with the good, the bad and the ugly of most issues.
And it seems to that here again just because i've pointed out some of the dark side of the Americans cultural history that I'm accused of thinking it's ALL Bad or "Evil". NOPE sorry if that all you want to see of my statement fine that's your right. but you'd be wrong. America has some wonderful history with minorities... and some horrible. BOTH are part of white Americas historical/cultural DNA. If you want to compare it to other countries also full of flawed Human Beings and claim it's better in various respects than others... from time to time... here and there... or conceptually... OK sure.

But I'm not going to pretend that After 9/11 some Americans didn't attack random Muslims or vilify and become suspicious of ALL muslims. And also put up signs similar those of the guy this thread is about. So what exactly did Obama have to do with that? Even George Bush went on TV at a Mosque to try and mollify some of that knee jerk anti-ALL Muslim anger that was roiling around the country. He said among other things...

...These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.
The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.
When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.
America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.
Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value. I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America....

Now is that very different from what Obama's been saying? Was Bush CAUSING people to hate islam MORE by saying those things, or is it only when Obama does it?
But I have to say even then I didn't agree that Islam was "peace" or that violence is against the muslim faith but i do agree with the sentiment that MOST muslims are NOT hell bent on killing us. And that we shouldn't be treating them all like criminal threats JUST because they are Muslim. I don't agree with Obama administration NOT calling Muslim extremist "muslim extremist." I think it's STUPID, and just a plain lie. I think he should be VERY specific and call it violent SHIA fundamentalist Muslim Extremist Cults. So that those outside of Islam can start to make a distinction and those inside can sense EXACTLY who our targets are and think twice about associating themselves with groups like that.

So anyway Abbey I think my points stands, when the Japanese Gov't attacked the U.S. many americans became self righteously suspicious and unwelcoming of ALL Japanese, Japanese americans as well as Germans and Italian Americans too. Not FDR's fault it's Human Nature, and part of America's historical knee jerk reaction by threats from 'the other'. Presidents often try to calm those reactions. Sometimes it helps sometimes not so much, sometimes it backfires. people are people.

[revelarts]

I remember when the Okalhoma City bombing took place that for hours... maybe a day... all the speculation was about Muslims/'Arabs' being the terrorist and i was struck by the anti-muslim/'Arab' sentiment rising up. Basically All muslims were being painted with a negative brush by some. But finally we all found out that it was a white guy. a former military guy. a former Roman Catholic. a member of a raicst militia group. Suddenly for some reason nearly all the GENERAL accusations against race, religion, profession and associations went away. But yes, there was some very real extra pressure on militias and racist groups... but that was nearly all from the left. However there were no SIGNS popping up at businesses or from average Americans that said...
"Military GET OUT!"
"Militia GET OUT"
"Whites GET OUT"
"Roman Catholics GET OUT".
Was it because Bill Clinton said the right things?

[Abbey Marie]

I said "HUMAN Nature", really sorry you think I see "everything" as "evil white person racism". that's really not my POV.
I don' think i've used that term and In THIS thread I've said that labeling ANY Group as a boogie man is stupid.. "any" includes calling "white people" evil.

But to make make my point clearer. you said that the Muslim issues is a reaction to Obama.
I say NO, it's not so much Obama but the reaction is to the attacks by muslim extremist.
Instead of looking at the problem as primarily narrow group AMONG muslim, HUMAN NATURE and YES many white Americans reactions is to be "concerned" and angry at the whole GROUP, rather than do the hard work of sifting through the millions/billons of muslims to target the REAL potential threats. Threats in Islamic teaching and potential violence.

Is what I'm saying false?

I think you know I tend to deal with the good, the bad and the ugly of most issues.
And it seems to that here again just because i've pointed out some of the dark side of the Americans cultural history that I'm accused of thinking it's ALL Bad or "Evil". NOPE sorry if that all you want to see of my statement fine that's your right. but you'd be wrong. America has some wonderful history with minorities... and some horrible. BOTH are part of white Americas historical/cultural DNA. If you want to compare it to other countries also full of flawed Human Beings and claim it's better in various respects than others... from time to time... here and there... or conceptually... OK sure.

But I'm not going to pretend that After 9/11 some Americans didn't attack random Muslims or vilify and become suspicious of ALL muslims. And also put up signs similar those of the guy this thread is about. So what exactly did Obama have to do with that? Even George Bush went on TV at a Mosque to try and mollify some of that knee jerk anti-ALL Muslim anger that was roiling around the country. He said among other things...

...These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.
The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.
When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.
America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.
Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value. I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America....

Now is that very different from what Obama's been saying? Was Bush CAUSING people to hate islam MORE by saying those things, or is it only when Obama does it?
But I have to say even then I didn't agree that Islam was "peace" or that violence is against the muslim faith but i do agree with the sentiment that MOST muslims are NOT hell bent on killing us. And that we shouldn't be treating them all like criminal threats JUST because they are Muslim. I don't agree with Obama administration NOT calling Muslim extremist "muslim extremist." I think it's STUPID, and just a plain lie. I think he should be VERY specific and call it violent SHIA fundamentalist Muslim Extremist Cults. So that those outside of Islam can start to make a distinction and those inside can sense EXACTLY who our targets are and think twice about associating themselves with groups like that.

So anyway Abbey I think my points stands, when the Japanese Gov't attacked the U.S. many americans became self righteously suspicious and unwelcoming of ALL Japanese, Japanese americans as well as Germans and Italian Americans too. Not FDR's fault it's Human Nature, and part of America's historical knee jerk reaction by threats from 'the other'. Presidents often try to calm those reactions. Sometimes it helps sometimes not so much, sometimes it backfires. people are people.

I never singled out Obama; I said our "leaders". After you pressed the issue, I added that the President sets the tone. Which he does.

Re: the second bolded text: Kinda like how blacks have a knee-jerk reaction towards ALL cops after the actions of a few bad apples? I tend to think when we are bombed or are at war with a country or group of people, we have more right to that reaction, and I'm not even sure it is correct to characterize it as knee-jerk in those cases. Whereas the riots in Charlotte based on zero/erroneous evidence are the very definition of knee-jerk. But it seems to me that you don't seem too concerned about these reactions when it comes to the cops. If I've missed that, I apologize. I don't read everything.

I do agree with your last sentence. It is exactly what I am saying we have been missing from Obama. By inviting only people from one side of the controversy to the WH, and ignoring the Dallas cop murders, he has actually fanned the flames for many folks. And set the tone perhaps to the point that the NFL would not even allow the Dallas Cowboys to publicly honor the fallen Dallas cops.

[revelarts]

I never singled out Obama; I said our "leaders". After you pressed the issue, I added that the President sets the tone. Which he does.

...

When your "leaders" not only fail to admit there is a threat, but actually embrace un-vett-able refugees from these very wonky countries, and refuse to close our borders to illegal invaders, it breeds this kind of reaction.

Seems to me those criteria of 'leaders' only applies to Obama.
If i'm mistaken sorry.

...Re: the second bolded text: Kinda like how blacks have a knee-jerk reaction towards ALL cops after the actions of a few bad apples? I tend to think when we are bombed or or at war with a country or group of people, we have more right to that reaction, and I'm not even sure it is correct to characterize it as knee-jerk in those cases. Whereas the riots in Charlotte based on zero/erroneous evidence are the very definition of knee-jerk. But it seems to me that you don't seem too concerned about these reactions when it comes to the cops. If I've missed that, I apologize. I don't read everything.

I do agree with your last sentence. It is exactly what I am saying we have been missing from Obama. By inviting only people from one side of the controversy, to the WH, and ignoring the Dallas cop murders, he has actually fanned the flames for many folks. And set the tone perhaps to the point that the NFL would not even allow the Dallas Cowboys to publicly honor the fallen Dallas cops.

As far as "blacks" knee jerk reaction and it being over "ALL cops".
well it seems to me there's been a series of events... where blacks have been killed by cops.. over and over again.. many innocent and unarmed. and the current death you mentioned sparked, yes, a knee jerk reaction.

Concerning it only being bad apples and not a broader training and other issues that's another question.
I've pointed out several times ...to seemingly deaf ears... in the protect and serve thread that it's not ALL police.
And I've quoted many other Blacks and others that also say it's not All police. But yes you can find some protesters, rioters that say or chant things that could be taken to mean exactly that.
But as has been pointed out by several here, If there's a break in at their homes or shooting on their street etc, they will CALL the cops without hesitation. And be happy if they show up to help, White, Black, Asian or Muslim cop. Because hating ALL cops that's not really what they mean. Everyone just wants GOOD COPS who don't hurt/kill for little or no good reason.
However I have to wonder how many anti Muslims, or anti 'Jap' sign posters would be happy to see a Muslim FBI agent or 'Jap' policeman if they needed one. I suspect that many would be more happy to have ZERO muslims, or have had ZERO "Japs" in the country.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I said "HUMAN Nature", really sorry you think I see "everything" as "evil white person racism". that's really not my POV.
I don' think i've used that term and In THIS thread I've said that labeling ANY Group as a boogie man is stupid.. "any" includes calling "white people" evil.

But to make make my point clearer. you said that the Muslim issues is a reaction to Obama.
I say NO, it's not so much Obama but the reaction is to the attacks by muslim extremist.
Instead of looking at the problem as primarily narrow group AMONG muslim, HUMAN NATURE and YES many white Americans reactions is to be "concerned" and angry at the whole GROUP, rather than do the hard work of sifting through the millions/billons of muslims to target the REAL potential threats. Threats in Islamic teaching and potential violence.

Is what I'm saying false?

I think you know I tend to deal with the good, the bad and the ugly of most issues.
And it seems to that here again just because i've pointed out some of the dark side of the Americans cultural history that I'm accused of thinking it's ALL Bad or "Evil". NOPE sorry if that all you want to see of my statement fine that's your right. but you'd be wrong. America has some wonderful history with minorities... and some horrible. BOTH are part of white Americas historical/cultural DNA. If you want to compare it to other countries also full of flawed Human Beings and claim it's better in various respects than others... from time to time... here and there... or conceptually... OK sure.

But I'm not going to pretend that After 9/11 some Americans didn't attack random Muslims or vilify and become suspicious of ALL muslims. And also put up signs similar those of the guy this thread is about. So what exactly did Obama have to do with that? Even George Bush went on TV at a Mosque to try and mollify some of that knee jerk anti-ALL Muslim anger that was roiling around the country. He said among other things...

...These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.
The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.
When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.
America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.
Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value. I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America....

Now is that very different from what Obama's been saying? Was Bush CAUSING people to hate islam MORE by saying those things, or is it only when Obama does it?
But I have to say even then I didn't agree that Islam was "peace" or that violence is against the muslim faith but i do agree with the sentiment that MOST muslims are NOT hell bent on killing us. And that we shouldn't be treating them all like criminal threats JUST because they are Muslim. I don't agree with Obama administration NOT calling Muslim extremist "muslim extremist." I think it's STUPID, and just a plain lie. I think he should be VERY specific and call it violent SHIA fundamentalist Muslim Extremist Cults. So that those outside of Islam can start to make a distinction and those inside can sense EXACTLY who our targets are and think twice about associating themselves with groups like that.

So anyway Abbey I think my points stands, when the Japanese Gov't attacked the U.S. many americans became self righteously suspicious and unwelcoming of ALL Japanese, Japanese americans as well as Germans and Italian Americans too. Not FDR's fault it's Human Nature, and part of America's historical knee jerk reaction by threats from 'the other'. Presidents often try to calm those reactions. Sometimes it helps sometimes not so much, sometimes it backfires. people are people.

But I have to say even then I didn't agree that Islam was "peace" or that violence is against the muslim faith but i do agree with the sentiment that MOST muslims are NOT hell bent on killing us.

NO, NOT BY ACTION , but by Koran mandated support they are!! That is--if they are true muslims..
The head preaches to murder, the body supports the tails doing the murdering deeds..
With full knowledge that each time a tail is cut off, a new one is regrown by the untouched body and then instructed what to do by the untouched head. A hydra.....
Only this particular hydra is real, is murdering around the world daily.
Remember this-- not every german was a Nazi, BUT THE VERY FEW THAT OPPOSED NAZISM WERE ELIMINATED AND THE EXTERMINATIONS
WERE THEN ASSURED OF THE GO AHEAD AND MURDER MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE PLAN.
Islam murders those that actively opposes its agenda.
Silence is not opposition to Islam's savagery and commanded destruction of all infidels, as by silence the main body insures not being attacked and destroyed.
Read the Koran , English translations are available-- AND HUNDREDS OF KORANIC VERSES SHOW MY WORDS ARE TRUE..-Tyr

[ruslanbag43]

'Muslims Get Out' Sign Isn't Racist, Minn. Restaurant Owner Claims

What penalties, criminal or what else followed for a restaurant owner?
I just searched the Internet and further development is not found... well, still English-speaking Internet, there are difficulties in using them.

[Drummond]

This following picture would be (i.e, IS ..) aimed at a British audience. But it also correctly encapsulates the Muslim expectation that all host countries MUST bend to their wants and needs and see them as a priority, 'or else' those failing to do so earn demonisation through their failing to.