Steelers in '23
Serious question for OCA
How did you go from a solid conservative back in the day - to what is seemingly a liberal today? How did your values change over the years? I'm just curious, as I've watched you go from a far right conservative, to now being very supportive over the years to liberals and speaking yourself support for liberal ideas.
Liberal moonbat
Believe it or not, some people people actually get smarter as they get older.Originally Posted by jimnyc
On a more serious note, I agree with you. I remember when I was on USMB in 2005 (and it was 2005. I went and looked it up), OCA would be one of those kicking my butt for my views, which were much more radical than they are today.
Banned
Believe it or not, some people people actually get smarter as they get older.
On a more serious note, I agree with you. I remember when I was on USMB in 2005 (and it was 2005. I went and looked it up), OCA would be one of those kicking my butt for my views, which were much more radical than they are today.
I am a "give credit whete credit is due" person nowadays and i don't see much credit in today's version of conservatism.
Thatcherite Minion
I'm not getting any real sense of any 'principled stand' from you. Instead, what I do see is a 'sour grapes' reaction to a single period you happened not to like.
Political philosophies are ultimately right or wrong. They stand the test of time. They define you, as a person ... IF you have enough personal principle to hang on to them, not only out of loyalty, but out of a conviction of their superiority. Of their being RIGHT, and provably so.
Back in my teens, I had a certain sense of my own worth .. of what defined me. My own sense of right v wrong. I made the mistake of allying myself with the Left, thinking that THEY were the political expression of my own sense of political being.
But time proved me wrong. I didn't let one single episode decide things for me .. I observed an entire age of tyranny, borne out of an application of political principle which, when applied to the real world, translated into mayhem and suffering.
I observed its opposition come along, and fix those wrongs. I saw that it was the way forward.
I remained true to my core being throughout, but what changed was my understanding of what political direction was RIGHT, and which one was WRONG. My loyalties have therefore been shaped, and have been rewarded over time.
I see nothing of that in what you describe for yourself. I see no grounding. No loyalty. No core beliefs being served at all. Either you always were a creature of the Left, or, you were never a Conservative of any real substance.
It's actually sad.
It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!
Liberal moonbat
"Right or wrong" is decided by which side of the road you end up on. You are a staunch conservative. You hold on to those values and believe they are right.
I am on the other side of the street and believe you are wrong. Your convictions are not my convictions. Your proof of being right is contrary to mine. The only thing we share is our right to be stubborn and obstinate in retaining our respective points of view.
Thatcherite Minion
Correction: I KNOW I AM RIGHT. IT'S BEEN PROVED TO ME.
I am someone who didn't want to see my society go into meltdown. I'm someone who understands that there is such a thing as human nature, and any political philosophy to be believed in has to be one which does the best possible job of serving humanity's needs, this coming from an interlocking between the philosophy itself and whether human nature is served by it.
Socialism, if you believe the hype ... is utopian. But human nature is NOT. We strive, we have a need to profit, we care for ourselves and our loved ones. We have a right to be individuals and know full expressiveness from being such.
Conservatism recognises the individual, his/her aspirations, and serves that truth. Socialism just tries to legislate its values on to people .. to 'graft' them into our consciousnesses. It dictates, it insists we think a certain way .. 'PC' thinking is a product of the Left.
It is ultimately anti-freedom. Conservatism is the opposite.
Humans are driven by greed. We want to profit. Socialist Trade Unions, when they translate their 'principles' into action, merely act to serve that lust for greed ... and they'll trample on anyone to satisfy whatever demands they're making. This doesn't at all fit the 'utopianism' preached by Lefties ... AND YET .. IT'S THE TRUTH OF WHAT HAPPENS.
Human nature always wins out, Gabby. The dictators of the Kremlin, in the USSR days, oppressed people for generations with their dysfunctional Communism. Their propaganda onslaught was relentless for several decades. Yet, despite it all, human nature triumphed. Their socialism crumbled to nothing.
Socialism is useless - Conservatism is the only system that works. One single 'blip' proves nothing at all, but if we're to believe 'Oca', it proves everything.
And that is nonsense.
Last edited by Drummond; 10-24-2016 at 05:58 AM.
Senior Member
What do you mean by "today's version of conservatism"? If by that you mean how the RINO elitists that have hijacked the GOP have run out and pushed out any and all real conservatives and conservatism... don't blame us (real conservatives) for that....
and don't blame conservatism. We didn't change. The GOP changed (See: Ronald Reagan's meme on why he left the DemocRats).
Banned
I told you earlier....2008/09.....bailouts etc etc
I will never put those lying leeches in charge of an economy again.
Plus ill ask you a question, Repubs had the W.H. 200-2008 and both houses of Congress for a while now, name 1 issue that conservatives have been on the winning end? Iow how have Repubs done anything to legislate? Have Repubs done anything other than gum up the system lately?
Steelers in '23
So ONE issue turned you into a foaming at the mouth liberal that trolls against conservatives or those leaning right?
Yes, the republicans have royally screwed us all for a long time now, hence me wanting to change term limits and a LOT of them need to go and we need to restart. But hell, that doesn't mean that my ideals changed and what I want for my country has changed.
Banned
Sorry, i feel like i was wrong when i look back. Maybe it's age i don't know.
It's like i heard on that lockup show one night, they were interviewing this old white guy like 60 yrs old, been in most of his life, no gang tats,stuck mostly to himself, they asked him how he makes it....."i don't have the energy or time to hate a whole group, i can only hate 1 sumbitch at a time" and that's how i feel, like the minute i heard Dem or lib i immediately went on the attack and did not listen. Once you get past the rhetoric there is value in both ideologies but that is the problem, America is almost all rhetoric.
Btw where did i flame? You know whst i consider flaming is dif maybe
Steelers in '23
I didn't say you flamed buddy. I think often when folks pop in out of nowhere, and look for answers and laugh about the current situations, I see that as a little bit of 'trolling'. It's cool of course or folks wouldn't be here, big difference between that and someone flaming left and right looking to start fights.Sorry, i feel like i was wrong when i look back. Maybe it's age i don't know.
It's like i heard on that lockup show one night, they were interviewing this old white guy like 60 yrs old, been in most of his life, no gang tats,stuck mostly to himself, they asked him how he makes it....."i don't have the energy or time to hate a whole group, i can only hate 1 sumbitch at a time" and that's how i feel, like the minute i heard Dem or lib i immediately went on the attack and did not listen. Once you get past the rhetoric there is value in both ideologies but that is the problem, America is almost all rhetoric.
Btw where did i flame? You know whst i consider flaming is dif maybe
Liberal moonbat
When there are a dozen conservatives on the board and only a couple of liberals, what the liberals say is going to cause fights. It's not "flaming" or "trolling." It's political discourse. Disagreement is not flaming.
Banned
You know i went to Greece back in july and compated to what they got going on there our problems aren't shit.
If you got a mil euros or if you got a hundred euros in the bank you can only take out 60 a day, no credit going around to speak of......that's a real problem.
Senior Member
I noticed that you are making the common mistake of conflating conservatives with Republicans. But the things you mentioned, are among the reasons why conservatives have become fed up with Republicans, and have brought in a new gunslinger to town (named Trump) to clean out the bad ones, in both parties. A tall order.
When you bring in a new gunslinger like this, you might not like him. But that doesn't matter. He wasn't brought here to be liked, he was brought in to do a necessary job.
After the job is done, then you can reconsider whether you want that gunslinger to stay around.
But you might not ever get a chance to decide who you want around, as long as the bad ones keep buying votes with free stuff and bending over backwards to "make nice" with those who do. Until AFTER the gunslinger does his job.
"The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com
Banned
Still waiting on a gunslinger to show up.
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