Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester, New York
    Posts
    67,823
    Thanks (Given)
    7315
    Thanks (Received)
    34146
    Likes (Given)
    7051
    Likes (Received)
    7758
    Piss Off (Given)
    14
    Piss Off (Received)
    19
    Mentioned
    514 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475724

    Default Enhanced interrogations worked!

    They worked and they saved lives - all that matters to me. Like I always said, if JUST ONE American life is saved, it's worth it.

    -----

    A horrifying look into the mind of 9/11’s mastermind, in his own words

    What is it like to stare into the face of evil? James E. Mitchell knows.

    In his gripping new memoir, “Enhanced Interrogation: Inside the Minds and Motives of the Islamic Terrorists Trying To Destroy America,” Mitchell describes the day he was questioning Khalid Sheik Mohammed, when the 9/11 mastermind announced he had something important to say. “KSM then launched into a gory and detailed description of how he beheaded Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl,” Mitchell writes. Up to that moment, the CIA did not know KSM had personally carried out the murder. When asked whether it was “hard to do” (meaning emotionally difficult), KSM misunderstood the question. “Oh, no, no problem,” KSM said, “I had very sharp knives. Just like slaughtering sheep.”

    To confirm his story, the CIA had KSM reenact the beheading so that it could compare the features of his hands and forearms to those in the video of Pearl’s murder. “Throughout the reenactment, KSM smiled and mugged for the cameras. Sometimes he preened,” Mitchell writes. When informed that the CIA had confirmed that he was telling the truth, KSM smiled.

    “See, I told you,” KSM said. “I cut Daniel’s throat with these blessed hands.”

    This is the pure evil Mitchell and his colleagues confronted each day at CIA “black sites.” “I have looked into the eyes of the worst people on the planet,” Mitchell writes. “I have sat with them and felt their passion as they described what they see as their holy duty to destroy our way of life.”

    The world has heard almost nothing from KSM in the 15 years since the 9/11 attacks, but Mitchell has spent thousands of hours with him and other captured al-Qaeda leaders. Now, for the first time, Mitchell is sharing what he says KSM told him.

    Mitchell is an American patriot who has been unjustly persecuted for his role in crafting an interrogation program that helped stop terrorist attacks and saved countless lives. He does not shy from the controversies and pulls no punches in describing the interrogations. If anything, readers may be surprised by the compassion he showed these mass murderers. But the real news in his book is what happened after enhanced interrogations ended and the terrorists began cooperating.

    Once their resistance had been broken, enhanced interrogation techniques stopped and KSM and other detainees became what Mitchell calls a “Terrorist Think Tank,” identifying voices in phone calls, deciphering encrypted messages and providing valuable information that led the CIA to other terrorists. Mitchell devotes an entire chapter to the critical role KSM and other detainees played in finding Osama bin Laden. KSM held classes where he lectured CIA officials on jihadist ideology, terrorist recruiting and attack planning. He was so cooperative, Mitchell writes, KSM “told me I should be on the FBI’s Most Wanted List because I am now a ‘known associate’ of KSM and a ‘graduate’ of his training camp.”

    KSM also described for Mitchell many of his as yet unconsummated ideas for future attacks, the terrifying details of which Mitchell does not reveal for fear they might be implemented. “If we ever allow him to communicate unmonitored with the outside world,” Mitchell writes, “he could easily spread his deviously simple but potentially deadly ideas.”

    But perhaps the most riveting part of the book is what KSM told Mitchell about what inspired al-Qaeda to attack the United States — and the U.S. response he expected. Today, some on both the left and the right argue that al-Qaeda wanted to draw us into a quagmire in Afghanistan — and now the Islamic State wants to do the same in Iraq and Syria. KSM said this is dead wrong. Far from trying to draw us in, KSM said that al-Qaeda expected the United States to respond to 9/11 as we had the 1983 bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut — when, KSM told Mitchell, the United States “turned tail and ran.” He also said he thought we would treat 9/11 as a law enforcement matter, just as we had the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and the USS Cole in Yemen — arresting some operatives and firing a few missiles into empty tents, but otherwise leaving him free to plan the next attack.

    “Then he looked at me and said, ‘How was I supposed to know that cowboy George Bush would announce he wanted us ‘dead or alive’ and then invade Afghanistan to hunt us down?’” Mitchell writes. “KSM explained that if the United States had treated 9/11 like a law enforcement matter, he would have had time to launch a second wave of attacks.” He was not able to do so because al-Qaeda was stunned “by the ferocity and swiftness of George W. Bush’s response.”

    But KSM said something else that was prophetic. In the end, he told Mitchell, “We will win because Americans don’t realize . . . we do not need to defeat you militarily; we only need to fight long enough for you to defeat yourself by quitting.”

    KSM explained that large-scale attacks such as 9/11 were “nice, but not necessary” and that a series of “low-tech attacks could bring down America the same way ‘enough disease-infected fleas can fell an elephant.’ ” KSM “said jihadi-minded brothers would immigrate into the United States” and “wrap themselves in America’s rights and laws” until they were strong enough to rise up and attack us. “He said the brothers would relentlessly continue their attacks and the American people would eventually become so tired, so frightened, and so weary of war that they would just want it to end.”

    “Eventually,” KSM said, “America will expose her neck for us to slaughter.”

    KSM was right. For the past eight years, our leaders have told us that we are weary of war and need to focus on “nation building at home.” We have been defeating ourselves by quitting — just as KSM predicted.

    But quitting will not bring us peace, KSM told Mitchell. He explained that “it does not matter that we do not want to fight them,” Mitchell writes, adding that KSM explained “America may not be in a religious war with him, but he and other True Muslims are in a religious war with America” and “he and his brothers will not stop until the entire world lives under Sharia law.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...2368&tid=ss_fb
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  2. Thanks NightTrain, SassyLady, Tyr-Ziu Saxnot thanked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Russia, Moscow
    Posts
    2,812
    Thanks (Given)
    1365
    Thanks (Received)
    1426
    Likes (Given)
    477
    Likes (Received)
    176
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2916541

    Default

    No doubt that 9/11 is an awful Tragedy of American Nation and those who were engaged in organizing and executing this crime must be found and punished.
    But there are a lot very strange things over these events which cause questions of those who used to think, analyze, have some knowledge and personal experience.
    In this respect I would ask some questions.
    Is there anybody on the board who is a professional pilot? He could tell us how much time it takes to learn all the instruments and controls as well as teach a pilot with previous experience to control every particular type of a huge jet-liner.
    No need to say that it differs greatly from single engine Cessna and the pilot of Cessna is not able to control and maneuver huge jet liner especially on descend in manual mode when autopilot is useless as the jet-liner is not guided by approach beacons.
    Every pilot knows that descend and landing are the most difficult phases of a flight as it is necessary to keep the course and altitude to aim a plane strictly to a prescribed points - another unsolvable task for yesterday's graduate of a light aircraft flying school.
    There also are some discrepancies with Pentagon, but it is another separate story.
    Last edited by Balu; 11-30-2016 at 12:41 AM.
    Indifferent alike to praise or blame
    Give heed, O Muse, but to the voice Divine
    Fearing not injury, nor seeking fame,
    Nor casting pearls to swine.
    (A.Pushkin)

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    over here
    Posts
    13,356
    Thanks (Given)
    5574
    Thanks (Received)
    6627
    Likes (Given)
    5342
    Likes (Received)
    3966
    Piss Off (Given)
    35
    Piss Off (Received)
    2
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17558168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    No doubt that 9/11 is an awful Tragedy of American Nation and those who were engaged in organizing and executing this crime must be found and punished.
    But there are a lot very strange things over these events which cause questions of those who used to think, analyze, have some knowledge and personal experience.
    In this respect I would ask some questions.
    Is there anybody on the board who is a professional pilot? He could tell us how much time it takes to learn all the instruments and controls as well as teach a pilot with previous experience to control every particular type of a huge jet-liner.
    No need to say that it differs greatly from single engine Cessna and the pilot of Cessna is not able to control and maneuver huge jet liner especially on descend in manual mode when autopilot is useless as the jet-liner is not guided by approach beacons.
    Every pilot knows that descend and landing are the most difficult phases of a flight as it is necessary to keep the course and altitude to aim a plane strictly to a prescribed points - another unsolvable task for yesterday's graduate of a light aircraft flying school.
    There also are some discrepancies with Pentagon, but it is another separate story.
    Asked and answered years ago.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

  5. Thanks CSM, Gunny, Drummond thanked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Russia, Moscow
    Posts
    2,812
    Thanks (Given)
    1365
    Thanks (Received)
    1426
    Likes (Given)
    477
    Likes (Received)
    176
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2916541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Asked and answered years ago.
    Fine!
    If it is so, it means that you know much more than me here in Russia.
    So, would you kindly answer the question HOW persons who are strangers in a cock of such a jet, on their own, without any technical support from the ground, without any practice and preliminary training could have managed to pilot huge air-jet liner so accurately to achieve such terrible results as it is extremely difficult task for a highly skilled pilot even to aim such a liner to a runway without assistance of air traffic control?
    Please, scatter my doubts.
    Indifferent alike to praise or blame
    Give heed, O Muse, but to the voice Divine
    Fearing not injury, nor seeking fame,
    Nor casting pearls to swine.
    (A.Pushkin)

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    Fine!
    If it is so, it means that you know much more than me here in Russia.
    So, would you kindly answer the question HOW persons who are strangers in a cock of such a jet, on their own, without any technical support from the ground, without any practice and preliminary training could have managed to pilot huge air-jet liner so accurately to achieve such terrible results as it is extremely difficult task for a highly skilled pilot even to aim such a liner to a runway without assistance of air traffic control?
    Please, scatter my doubts.
    Not sure what you hear in Russia but some of the terrorists did receive training in multi-engine commercial aircraft prior to executing their plot. They received this training in the US and was originally why they were granted entrance to the US in the first place. In fact, terrorists attending various flight schools in the US had been going on for quite a while. Unfortunately, because the many different US agencies could not legally exchange information at that time, nobody ever connected the dots. There are many , many explanations if you care to Google who trained the 911 terrorists.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  8. Thanks Kathianne, Balu, Drummond thanked this post
  9. #6
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Russia, Moscow
    Posts
    2,812
    Thanks (Given)
    1365
    Thanks (Received)
    1426
    Likes (Given)
    477
    Likes (Received)
    176
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2916541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    Not sure what you hear in Russia but some of the terrorists did receive training in multi-engine commercial aircraft prior to executing their plot. They received this training in the US and was originally why they were granted entrance to the US in the first place. In fact, terrorists attending various flight schools in the US had been going on for quite a while. Unfortunately, because the many different US agencies could not legally exchange information at that time, nobody ever connected the dots. There are many , many explanations if you care to Google who trained the 911 terrorists.
    Thank you for your kind reply.
    I am more or less acquainted with FAA requirements. (*) So I have very deep hesitations that they were duly trained.
    Moreover, I paid special attention to visual flight (VFR) problems when piloting jet-liner without air traffic control and usage of radar beacons and landing lights to guide the aircraft.

    (*)
    The EASA Commercial Pilot's Licence (CPL) Course with a EASA Instrument Rating (IR) provides the training required to meet the level of proficiency necessary to operate single-pilot multi-engine aeroplanes and to obtain the EASA CPL/IR.

    Entry Requirements:



    Indifferent alike to praise or blame
    Give heed, O Muse, but to the voice Divine
    Fearing not injury, nor seeking fame,
    Nor casting pearls to swine.
    (A.Pushkin)

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    Thank you for your kind reply.
    I am more or less acquainted with FAA requirements. (*) So I have very deep hesitations that they were duly trained.
    Moreover, I paid special attention to visual flight (VFR) problems when piloting jet-liner without air traffic control and usage of radar beacons and landing lights to guide the aircraft.

    (*)
    The EASA Commercial Pilot's Licence (CPL) Course with a EASA Instrument Rating (IR) provides the training required to meet the level of proficiency necessary to operate single-pilot multi-engine aeroplanes and to obtain the EASA CPL/IR.

    Entry Requirements:



    Training requirements not withstanding, clearly the terrorists were not interested (other than to continue their deception and protect their plot) in learning to navigate or land. They only needed to learn enough to control the aircraft (once airborne and close enough to their target) and direct it into some building such as the Pentagon or the twin towers.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  11. Thanks Kathianne, Drummond thanked this post
  12. #8
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Russia, Moscow
    Posts
    2,812
    Thanks (Given)
    1365
    Thanks (Received)
    1426
    Likes (Given)
    477
    Likes (Received)
    176
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2916541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    Training requirements not withstanding, clearly the terrorists were not interested (other than to continue their deception and protect their plot) in learning to navigate or land. They only needed to learn enough to control the aircraft (once airborne and close enough to their target) and direct it into some building such as the Pentagon or the twin towers.
    To be enlisted to the training they should have initially correspond to the Entrance requirements. Shouldn't they?
    Then as to the Pentagon case. ANY pilot knows that maximum possible speed of a liner depends on the Flight Level and NO civilian air-jet liner is able to fly at 0.7-0.8 M at ground altitude. The structure of a plane will be destroyed far before. This is physics and nobody could do anything against it.
    This is another discrepancy that makes me doubt.
    Last edited by Balu; 11-30-2016 at 07:55 AM.
    Indifferent alike to praise or blame
    Give heed, O Muse, but to the voice Divine
    Fearing not injury, nor seeking fame,
    Nor casting pearls to swine.
    (A.Pushkin)

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    To be enlisted to the training they should have initially correspond to the Entrance requirements. Shouldn't they?
    Then as to the Pentagon case. ANY pilot knows that maximum possible speed of a liner depends on the Flight Level and NO civilian air-jet liner is able to fly at 0.7-0.8 M at ground altitude. The structure of a plane will be destroyed far before. This is physics and nobody could do anything against it.
    This is another discrepancy that makes me doubt.
    EASA is European. The FAA controls training requirements for the US. Most flight training schools in the US offer a complete training course beginning with no license all the way through complete commercial certification. Requirements are different in thee US. as for the physics of flight, all that was required for the terrorists to complete their mission was to crash the plane into a building. They weren't making a bombing run, they were trying to crash so as long as they maintained enough speed to stay airborne until that happened, they could accomplish their goal.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,819
    Thanks (Given)
    34251
    Thanks (Received)
    26352
    Likes (Given)
    2315
    Likes (Received)
    9915
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    Not sure what you hear in Russia but some of the terrorists did receive training in multi-engine commercial aircraft prior to executing their plot. They received this training in the US and was originally why they were granted entrance to the US in the first place. In fact, terrorists attending various flight schools in the US had been going on for quite a while. Unfortunately, because the many different US agencies could not legally exchange information at that time, nobody ever connected the dots. There are many , many explanations if you care to Google who trained the 911 terrorists.
    Once airborne, the plane can fly itself. Rudimentary skills will get you where you're going. Take off and landing are the bitches. If landing consists of hitting a geo-grid coordinate as big as a building, not likely to miss.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  15. Thanks CSM, Drummond thanked this post
  16. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Once airborne, the plane can fly itself. Rudimentary skills will get you where you're going. Take off and landing are the bitches. If landing consists of hitting a geo-grid coordinate as big as a building, not likely to miss.
    Exactly. Frankly, they didn't need to hit the Twin Towers.... just crashing into Manhattan would have achieved the same effect.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  17. Thanks Gunny, Drummond thanked this post
  18. #12
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Russia, Moscow
    Posts
    2,812
    Thanks (Given)
    1365
    Thanks (Received)
    1426
    Likes (Given)
    477
    Likes (Received)
    176
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2916541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    ... as for the physics of flight, all that was required for the terrorists to complete their mission was to crash the plane into a building. They weren't making a bombing run, they were trying to crash so as long as they maintained enough speed to stay airborne until that happened, they could accomplish their goal.
    You see at speeds exceeding about 300 knots at ground altitude the aircraft just falls apart and nothing will reach the Pentagon. The reason - the density of the air at ground level which destroy the structure of the aircraft as the civil aircrafts are not designed to fly at such speeds at such altitudes.
    Indifferent alike to praise or blame
    Give heed, O Muse, but to the voice Divine
    Fearing not injury, nor seeking fame,
    Nor casting pearls to swine.
    (A.Pushkin)

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,819
    Thanks (Given)
    34251
    Thanks (Received)
    26352
    Likes (Given)
    2315
    Likes (Received)
    9915
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    Exactly. Frankly, they didn't need to hit the Twin Towers.... just crashing into Manhattan would have achieved the same effect.
    I've said this along: If they were not so caught up in attacking Americal symbols of power, they could have done WAY more strategic damage. They could easily have doubled or tripled their bodycount hitting Manhattan during rush hour.

    This was more of a Tet Offensive type victory. Strategic damage was minimal, we won, yet the left and their cohort terrorist buddies declared victory and the MSM convinced everyone it must be so.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  20. Thanks CSM thanked this post
  21. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    You see at speeds exceeding about 300 knots at ground altitude the aircraft just falls apart and nothing will reach the Pentagon. The reason - the density of the air at ground level which destroy the structure of the aircraft as the civil aircrafts are not designed to fly at such speeds at such altitudes.
    Yeah, that was debunked years ago. There are many articles out there claiming such but when actually tested, it was proven that the aircraft in question could not only fly at low altitude but were very controllable at speeds over .86 M. I am sure with the resources available to you, you could do a little research on the internet and find that information.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


  22. Thanks Drummond thanked this post
  23. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,853
    Thanks (Given)
    960
    Thanks (Received)
    3749
    Likes (Given)
    535
    Likes (Received)
    854
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    17759692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I've said this along: If they were not so caught up in attacking Americal symbols of power, they could have done WAY more strategic damage. They could easily have doubled or tripled their bodycount hitting Manhattan during rush hour.

    This was more of a Tet Offensive type victory. Strategic damage was minimal, we won, yet the left and their cohort terrorist buddies declared victory and the MSM convinced everyone it must be so.
    yep ... and of course they were not counting on the reaction of the Bush administration either....
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Debate Policy - Political Forums