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  1. #1
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    Default What would you look for in Cuba to see the true nature of Communism?

    I opted to visit Cuba instead of Venezuela next year because visiting Venezuela amounts to a death wish. I will be visiting the middle of the island, avoiding Havana. When I visited Havana 10 years ago, I boarded city buses and just randomly struck up conversations. Most would talk, a few just replied that risking arrest was too much, sorry but can't talk. Most people really do only earn less than US $30 per month. There really are agents from the Ministry of the Interior watching the population's every move. The Committee for the Defense of the Revolution really does have people locked up for being "at risk" of committing a crime, who haven't actually committed a crime. I plan to dig even deeper to see what life if really like under Communism. For many, life really was worse under Fulgencio Batista. Getting a subsistence diet from a ration book is better than going hungry altogether. Bath soap is thought of as gold.
    Experienced Social Distancer ... waaaay before COVID.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
    ... I plan to dig even deeper to see what life if really like under Communism.
    If your goal is to understand what communism is in the ideological sense, Cuba is not the best choice. It is better to choose China, which, unlike Russia, is still a communist country. They both (Cuba and China) have the same 'value scale', but different opportunities to achieve the targets.
    Then, for obvious reasons, you will face great difficulties, to learn something. You should understand that there is no flow of tourists to Cuba from the United States and your private visit, to say, from 'unfriendly country', which economically blocked Cuba for decades, might look rather suspicious to the authorities and will not encourage local residents for close and frank contacts.
    I would recommend you to think all above over before wasting your money.
    Last edited by Balu; 12-04-2016 at 09:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    If your goal is to understand what communism is in the ideological sense, Cuba is not the best choice. It is better to choose China, which, unlike Russia, is still a communist country. They both (Cuba and China) have the same 'value scale', but different opportunities to achieve the targets.
    Then, for obvious reasons, you will face great difficulties, to learn something. You should understand that there is no flow of tourists to Cuba from the United States and your private visit, to say, from 'unfriendly country', which economically blocked Cuba for decades, might look rather suspicious to the authorities and will not encourage local residents for close and frank contacts.
    I would recommend you to think all above over before wasting your money.
    I disagree. Cuba is an excellent example of what Communism does to its people when it's dominant. Certainly it's a clear example !

    Fidel Castro. Dictator, despot, turning Cuba into a prison island. Co-creator of the Cuban Missile Crisis, which nearly wiped out humanity !!

    Yes, Balu. Communism, when unleashed, is EXTREMELY bad for people ....

    You want people to turn to China instead ? A closed society, yes, again dictatorial, but where it's been written into everyone's thinking that obeying authority without question is 'normal' and 'the way things must be'.

    I prefer a more transparently despotic model. I believe Cuba suffices.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I disagree. Cuba is an excellent example of what Communism does to its people when it's dominant. Certainly it's a clear example !

    Fidel Castro. Dictator, despot, turning Cuba into a prison island. Co-creator of the Cuban Missile Crisis, which nearly wiped out humanity !!

    Yes, Balu. Communism, when unleashed, is EXTREMELY bad for people ....

    You want people to turn to China instead ? A closed society, yes, again dictatorial, but where it's been written into everyone's thinking that obeying authority without question is 'normal' and 'the way things must be'.

    I prefer a more transparently despotic model. I believe Cuba suffices.
    You know about Cuba? - So, tell us all about their education and health systems, for example, taking into account the specific features of their economic opportunities.
    How to close the Society of China please provide details of the annual Chinese tourist flow and its geography. Then it will be a substantive discussion. Otherwise it is an ordinary liberal bla-bla.
    Last edited by Balu; 12-05-2016 at 08:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    You know about Cuba? - So, tell us all about their education and health systems, for example, taking into account the specific features of their economic opportunities.
    How to close the Society of China please provide details of the annual Chinese tourist flow and its geography. Then it will be a substantive discussion. Otherwise it is an ordinary liberal bla-bla.
    Balu -- Communist and Socialist regimes specialise in 'excellent' education facilities. Of COURSE they do ... because indoctrination through education is highly important to such regimes, and of course, they want to maximise the success of such indoctrination efforts.

    Therefore - and this is fully conceded - Castro did pump much revenue and resources into education. Of course he did.

    Judging by what Michael Moore was pleased to tell our own Sky News a couple of years ago in an interview, Cuba also enjoys a very good standard of healthcare. But then ... workers have to be healthy, in order to work !! So his regime gets paid back dividends by assuring such standards.

    We in the UK have our 'Comprehensive Education system'. Introduced in the 1960's, it had the effect of more centralising, and nationalising, education establishments. It was, of course, introduced by our LEFTIES ... because it put that education more firmly in State control ! Yes, Balu, state control over education matters a very great deal .... Lefties insist upon it ....

    Here's the thing, though. State controlled education and healthcare is paid for through taxation. That's to say, people are MADE to pay what they are TOLD to pay ... they don't have control over it at all.

    This is doubly disgusting when you consider that people are therefore forced to pay for indoctrination of their own children !!!

    Still, that's Lefties for you. THEY decide what's right ... to hell with the individual.

    As for Cuba's taxation regime ... maybe this will help ? See ....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxati...ba#cite_note-1

    Income tax is levied to natural persons who engage on economic activities outside employment for the government. For those persons, there are two tax regimes: one is based on accounted profits, and the other is a fixed monthly fee adjusted per occupation.

    The tax regime based on accounted profits is imposed to people with income over 100000 CUP (equivalent to USD 4000) and to people in some particular occupations, for example food retailing. In this regime, deductions are allowed for costs up to a limit arbitrarily set by the Minister of Finances, but also for other taxes and some base deductions.

    The second form is imposed to the rest of the retailers, and does not require that the entrepreneur do any kind of accounting. This form of tax is possible because the Cuban legislation only allows for rudimentary forms of economic association involving very few people, also, the kinds of activity per occupation and the occupations themselves are limited per law[2]

    The Finance Minister sets preliminary monthly tax quotas based on occupation. If the amount of the preliminary tax paid during the fiscal year is higher than the final tax according to income and tax rate, no tax refund is made. That is, tax refunds are not made in any case.
    ... so. If you are outside of Cuba's Government machinery, you pay for it !! Either wages are VERY low in Cuba, or if above $4,000.00, you can normally expect to be considered for State tax. It seems that, in common with Leftie regimes generally, you're taxed in Cuba for daring to exercise entrepreneurial spirit .. if you're a businessman, retailer, engage in an occupation that might actually bring you profit, hey presto, along comes Cuba's taxmen to tax you !

    'Lovely', eh, Balu ... ? But then ... maybe you think such tyrannical squashing of business spirit is a normal and acceptable function of Government ?

    Trouble is, of course, that this has been in place for generations. Cubans will think it's a 'good' thing, because they have no experience of anything better.

    Perhaps the very same can be said for your country, Balu. Eh ? Do you agree ?

    Make my day, and tell me that I may have a point ....

    Oh, and you'll notice that I haven't included comments about China. Two reasons ... one, I don't know all that much about China (other than news I get of how repressive their Lefties are !). Two .. that departs, in any case, from the thread subject. We're here to discuss Cuba, not China.
    Last edited by Drummond; 12-05-2016 at 10:24 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balu View Post
    You know about Cuba? - So, tell us all about their education and health systems, for example, taking into account the specific features of their economic opportunities.
    How to close the Society of China please provide details of the annual Chinese tourist flow and its geography. Then it will be a substantive discussion. Otherwise it is an ordinary liberal bla-bla.
    I can tell that Havana has a three-tier health system.
    1) The best for those favored by the Communist party. That would be the same people that get to drive modern vehicles.
    2) One for visitors/tourists that over-charges and gives barely adequate care. If I get sick in Cuba, I plan to pay whatever late airline booking fees are needed and get treated in Miami.
    3) Facilities for everyone else that look like something from the 1800s.

    Are you contending that the smaller cities will have better health care than the Capital? I can certainly investigate that next month.

    I plan to visit a couple of universities and bring a jump drive with open source programming languages and statistical packages to install on people's machines. You forget that Cuba essentially has no internet. My advice to students who want a career outside of Cuba rather than earn less than US $30 per month is this: Study ADVANCED mathematics. That means Integral Calculus, Matrices, Differential Equations, Mathematical Statistics (including proofs). Also learn SOME programming language, even if it's that crappy DELPHI that they teach in Cuba. That knowledge base will easily translate into Information Technology work in the free world.

    BTW: China is not a good option for me because while I do speak Spanish, I don't speak Chinese. Not only that, airfare DFW to Cienfuegos is only $450 round trip and lodging is only $25-30 per day.
    Experienced Social Distancer ... waaaay before COVID.

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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tailfins View Post
    I can tell that Havana has a three-tier health system.
    1) The best for those favored by the Communist party. That would be the same people that get to drive modern vehicles.
    2) One for visitors/tourists that over-charges and gives barely adequate care. If I get sick in Cuba, I plan to pay whatever late airline booking fees are needed and get treated in Miami.
    3) Facilities for everyone else that look like something from the 1800s.

    Are you contending that the smaller cities will have better health care than the Capital? I can certainly investigate that next month.
    You are telling rather interesting things. There must be medical insurance which is covering expenses of a foreigner visiting a country. You have different status comparing with that of the natives for whom medical care is free.
    Sure there is difference in quality and the volume as all over the world. I do not understand why you are wondering as to this point.
    Then, keep in mind that they are a small island country whose economical potential is restricted by medicines, tourism, tobacco, rum and raw sugar and they live at their own.
    Indifferent alike to praise or blame
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    Nor casting pearls to swine.
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