Intel Professionals: Trump Should Rethink Syria Escalation

[Drummond]

While harsh, there's more than a bit of truth here:

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/b...ica-first-dead

A truly great President is a realistic one. He or she adapts to reality, does what's necessary. Both GWB and Trump wanted Presidencies which took less interest in international affairs, but, reality intervened and they both had to greatly revise their intentions.

This is as it should be, and such changes of mind are meritorious. It's good to have a vision of what you want to do in the world, but at the end of the day, you adapt to what you MUST adapt to, to best do your job.

[Drummond]

Syria ready to provide OPCW investigators access to Shayrat airbase - UN envoy

World
April 13, 2:41 UTC+3
According to Jaafari, security guarantees from terrorist groups operating in this area and "the countries providing assistance to them" will be necessary to provide experts access to Khan Sheikhoun



© AP Photo/Julie Jacobson

UNITED NATIONS, April 13. /TASS/. Syria is ready to provide experts of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) access to Shayrat airbase to check whether sarin, which Western countries claim was used during the attack against the city of Khan Sheikhoun on April 4, was stored there, Syria’s Permanent Representative to the UN, Bashar Jaafari, told a meeting of the UN Security Council.
He noted that Damascus had sent a letter to the OPCW Director General, Ahmet Uzumcu, asking him "to send an unbiased and professional mission to Khan Sheikhoun and Shayrat airbase to determine what exactly happened." "Syria emphasizes its willingness to provide the mission access to Shayrat airbase to determine whether sarin was stored there," the diplomat said.
According to Jaafari, security guarantees from Jabhat al-Nusra and other terrorist groups operating in this area and "the countries providing assistance to them" will be necessary to provide OPCW experts access to Khan Sheikhoun.
On Wednesday, Russia blocked the draft resolution, which said that Damascus must hand over all data on April 4 flights to the OPCW and provide access to the airbases that could be used to carry out a strike against Khan Sheikhoun.
Jaafari noted that the Syrian government is interested as nobody else in shedding light on what happened in that city. However, he spoke out against "the draft resolutions that have the insidious wording that forestall the results of any probes" and are aimed at "accusing the Syrian government in advance" of wrongdoings. The diplomat thanked Russia for vetoing the document.
The US military fired 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a military airfield in Syria’s Homs province overnight to April 7 on instructions issued by President Donald Trump. The strike came in response to what Washington believes was the Syrian government’s use of chemical weapons in the Idlib province. The US authorities asserted that the alleged chemical attack was launched from that airfield.

More:
http://tass.com/world/941095

... Sorry, what am I 'missing' here ?

A number of days after the Syrian attack, suddenly, NOW, and only NOW, will Syria consider allowing access to the Shayrat airbase ? Well ... don't you think that if there'd been evidence of chemical weaponry there on the day of the attack, Syria has had ample opportunity, by now, to get rid of that evidence ???

It's a bit like saying that if someone commits a murder, then, in committing it, leaves forensic evidence showing who that murderer must've been .. the murderer should then have a number of days to remove all of that evidence, before police can move in and try to gather that evidence !!

It's ridiculous, Balu.

Between the day of the Syrian attack and now, Syria and Russia have been obstructing all prospect of real, meaningful progress in getting to the truth of the matter. But NOW, after there's been time for Syria to try and cover its tracks, suddenly there's a new-found willingness to show a display of cooperation ??

Cue a repeat of Iraq, maybe ... and a cry of 'We cannot find any WMD's, therefore, they could never have existed' .. ? This is the very same insane 'logic' that the Left employed to convince the world that the Iraq invasion in 2003 was unjustified. All of it was, and is, laughably absurd.

[Kathianne]

GW and Trump both ran with a domestic focus, no denying that. Bush did not however change his perspective until the US was attacked. I'm certainly not saying that Trump is wrong, simply not following what he said he'd do. When the US was hit 8 months later, there wasn't any choice to what would become a war footing administration.

In all honesty, perhaps GW had been naive, but if 9/11 hadn't occurred, every indication was that he wasn't going to decide who was 'good' or 'bad' in the sense of involving the US military. The reason I say naive is that al Queda had already been on the offense and the USS Cole had gone unanswered, it was a matter of time. Like Trump, the transition was not easy, though for different reasons.

I do think that Trump had to act, if for no other reason he had to change the world's perception of the US following Obama-it could not go on. It was wrong for both our allies and those that want to do us harm. He's right to say that action should have been taken by Obama, when more than 10X the number of victims happened. I don't think it was the pictures from this one or Ivanka's tears that brought him to the decision, it was the real politics of what had occurred before and happened again. 2013 was NOT the last attack, hopefully this one will be.

NK little despot needed to know that he's not sitting in his little isolated country either, able to do whatever he likes. I don't know about his getting the message, he appears delusional to me, but China is reacting in a sane way.

[Gunny]

This thread looks like an Alistair MacLean novel.

[Kathianne]

This thread looks like an Alistair MacLean novel.

@Gunny Expound, please.

[Balu]

... Sorry, what am I 'missing' here ?

A number of days after the Syrian attack, suddenly, NOW, and only NOW, will Syria consider allowing access to the Shayrat airbase ? Well ... don't you think that if there'd been evidence of chemical weaponry there on the day of the attack, Syria has had ample opportunity, by now, to get rid of that evidence ???.

First, you are IGNORANT in this question. So, DO consult specialists and THEY will teach you, not me. To answer in one word - it is IMPOSSIBLE.
And second. There are two points:
1. There are NO PROOFS that Syrians conducted a chemical air attack. NONE!
2. Russia VOTED the draft of the Resolution proposed by the USA&Co. UNPROVEN accusing and stating that Syria is guilty and WILL do it in future as the recent bombardment of US coalition PROVED that ISIS and other 'moderate opposition' the USA support and supply, HAS chemical weapons in stocks.
Everything is as simple as this.

[Kathianne]

Recap: Russia/Syria, no one has 'proven' chemical weapons used, other than the dead and the autopsy reports. Autopsy results are lies, just ask Kremlin, Tass, Pravda, and Russian ambassador to UN. Oh, and Balu!

[Drummond]

First, you are IGNORANT in this question. So, DO consult specialists and THEY will teach you, not me. To answer in one word - it is IMPOSSIBLE.
And second. There are two points:
1. There are NO PROOFS that Syrians conducted a chemical air attack. NONE!
2. Russia VOTED the draft of the Resolution proposed by the USA&Co. UNPROVEN accusing and stating that Syria is guilty and WILL do it in future as the recent bombardment of US coalition PROVED that ISIS and other 'moderate opposition' the USA support and supply, HAS chemical weapons in stocks.
Everything is as simple as this.

To answer you in two words, then ... WHY IMPOSSIBLE ?

Just stating it is, doesn't make it true. I'd like you to explain your claim.

Point two goes some way to answering point one, it seems to me. Had the Resolution been passed, had inspectors then had the authority to go in and investigate, then if there was 'no proof' of Syria conducting a chemical attack, they'd have been able to report this.

... but, NO. YOUR PEOPLE acted to STOP that process.

Syria has an abysmal track record in these matters in any case. It did happen in 2013 (.. or will you deny that, too ?). Evidence, such as it is, points damningly towards its having happened again. And, Balu .. you STILL haven't explained how people in the area could suffer from Sarin poisoning, when if all Syria did was bomb a storage facility containing Sarin, the Sarin could not have then survived as an active chemical agent !!

No, Balu, the Resolution as originally worded was consistent with known fact, and therefore perfectly reasonable. If that fact was false, the subsequent investigation would've shown that. But, Balu, your people, along with Syria, stopped it before it could even begin.

[revelarts]

Recap: Russia/Syria, no one has 'proven' chemical weapons used, other than the dead and the autopsy reports. Autopsy results are lies, just as Kremlin, Tass, Pravda, and Russian ambassador to UN. Oh, and Balu!

The U.S Gov't says one thing but later through investigations and revelations on theses issues regularly find another story. that the masses of the country have been ...misinformed

Gulf of Tonkin! > Viet Nam War > sooory fake news/false flag but it was for a good cause
Incubator babies! > Gulf war I > sorry that was fake news/false flag but well um WE WON didn't we!
Aluminum tubes, yellow cake, mobile chem factories, WMDS!!! Iraq 911!> Iraq war, opps sorry "bad intel"
2013 Assad SARIN!! > Opps.. Ok mumble it was the rebels never mind.

Is there a pattern here that reasonable people might consider?

[revelarts]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-khan-sheikhun

"Syria chemical weapons attack: what we know about deadly air raid
Experts say it is too early to say whether sarin or a mix of substances was used in the attack on rebel-held Khan Sheikhun"






"A Syrian man collects samples from the site of the suspected toxic gas attack in Khan Sheikhun. Photograph: Omar Haj Kadour/AFP/Getty Images"

“It is possible it’s sarin but also possible it could be something else, or a mix of things. We mustn’t fall into the trap of thinking that [only] one substance was used, when it could have been more than one,” said Richard Guthrie, a British chemical weapons expert...

...Médecins Sans Frontières, whose doctors treated some of the victims, said both a nerve agent and chlorine appeared to have been used.

“Victims smelled of bleach, suggesting they had been exposed to chlorine,” the group said in a statement, after detailing symptoms of neurotoxins. “These reports strongly suggest that victims of the attack on Khan Sheikhun were exposed to at least two different chemical agents.”...

One of several things to note about that picture is
that guy is:
wearing protective gloves... CHECK
A protective mask ...sort of... CHECK?
And 'protective' Flip Flops ...what the Heck?

[Drummond]

GW and Trump both ran with a domestic focus, no denying that. Bush did not however change his perspective until the US was attacked. I'm certainly not saying that Trump is wrong, simply not following what he said he'd do. When the US was hit 8 months later, there wasn't any choice to what would become a war footing administration.

In all honesty, perhaps GW had been naive, but if 9/11 hadn't occurred, every indication was that he wasn't going to decide who was 'good' or 'bad' in the sense of involving the US military. The reason I say naive is that al Queda had already been on the offense and the USS Cole had gone unanswered, it was a matter of time. Like Trump, the transition was not easy, though for different reasons.

I do think that Trump had to act, if for no other reason he had to change the world's perception of the US following Obama-it could not go on. It was wrong for both our allies and those that want to do us harm. He's right to say that action should have been taken by Obama, when more than 10X the number of victims happened. I don't think it was the pictures from this one or Ivanka's tears that brought him to the decision, it was the real politics of what had occurred before and happened again. 2013 was NOT the last attack, hopefully this one will be.

NK little despot needed to know that he's not sitting in his little isolated country either, able to do whatever he likes. I don't know about his getting the message, he appears delusional to me, but China is reacting in a sane way.

Yes. I think that the chief motivation - apart from the sheer horror of pictures of the dead, as Trump would've seen them - and not forgetting another point made previously, that of the prospect of Trump maybe having access to intelligence reports which gave him additional cause for concern (unproven, but distinctly possible) ... was to reverse the Obama legacy of inaction, and the perceived weakness of resolve America had shown on the world stage previously. Trump needed to make it clear that, on his watch, the US would react differently, more decisively.

Such a perception could work extremely well in America's favour, of course, in all sorts of ways. It was a valuable lesson to teach everybody. It needed to be taught, in my opinion ... Obama had done too much damage to America's standing in such matters.

[Besides which ... the media, over here, have tried to paint Trump as 'Russia's poodle' (a reference to the disparagement meted out to Tony Blair, when he was characterised as Bush's poodle over Iraq, in 2003). Trump has proven, surely beyond all doubt, how fictional all of that was.]

Trump is turning out to be a stellar President .. I've no doubt that history will mark him out as one of the all-time 'great' Presidents you've had throughout the history of the United States of America.

[Balu]

Hundreds poisoned in US-led coalition’s strike on IS depot in Deir ez-Zor

World
April 13, 13:20 UTC+3
According to the Syrian army command, hundreds of people died from poisoning



© AP Photo/Hassan Ammar, archive

BEIRUT, April 13. /TASS/. Hundreds of people died from poisoning after an air strike by the US-led coalition on the headquarters and the depots of the Islamic State terrorist organization (outlawed in Russia) near Deir ez-Zor, the Syrian army command said in a statement circulated by SANA news agency.
The US-led coalition struck the terrorists’ positions at 5:30 p.m. local time on Wednesday. The air strike killed a large number of terrorists, including mercenaries, the statement said.
Read also

Russia submits its proposal to OPCW on extra inspectors in Syria’s Idlib
Russia won't support UN Security Council resolution condemning Syrian government — Lavrov
Syria ready to provide OPCW investigators access to Shayrat airbase — UN envoy
Russia vetoes UN Security Council resolution on alleged chemical attack in Syria
Russian diplomat believes UK fears Moscow-Washington cooperation on Syria
Russian diplomat slams Washington’s use of force in Syria as challenge to global security




"However, a yellow smoke rose over the depot after the bombing. This is evidence that the depot stored chemical agents," according to the document.
"As a result, hundreds of people, including civilians, died as a result of poisoning," the statement reads.
The Syrian army command did not give the exact number of people who had died or suffered in the coalition’s bombing.
"This incident confirms once again that terrorist organizations possess stocks of chemical weapons and have a possibility to get, store and use them thanks to the assistance of well-known regional states," the document says.
The Syrian army command came up with a statement on April 4, blaming terrorist gangs for the use of poisonous gases in the town of Khan Sheikhoun in the Idlib province. The statement stressed that "the Syrian army does not possess chemical munitions and all the accusations against it on this score were fabricated."
On order of US President Donald Trump, the US military fired Tomahawk missiles overnight to April 7 on an airfield in the Syrian province of Homs, from which, as Washington believed, aircraft had taken off to deliver a strike on Khan Sheikhoun.
Later, Russia blocked a draft resolution at the UN Security Council, which said that Damascus must hand over all data on April 4 flights to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) and provide access to the airbases that could be used to carry out a strike against Khan Sheikhoun.
Syria’s Permanent Representative at the UN Bashar Jaafari said at the UN Security Council session that Damascus was ready to provide access for OPCW experts to the Shayrat airbase to check if it stored sarin, which, as Western countries claim, was used in the recent attack.




More:
http://tass.com/world/941173

[Drummond]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-khan-sheikhun

"Syria chemical weapons attack: what we know about deadly air raid
Experts say it is too early to say whether sarin or a mix of substances was used in the attack on rebel-held Khan Sheikhun"






"A Syrian man collects samples from the site of the suspected toxic gas attack in Khan Sheikhun. Photograph: Omar Haj Kadour/AFP/Getty Images"


One of several things to note about that picture is
that guy is:
wearing protective gloves... CHECK
A protective mask ...sort of... CHECK?
And 'protective' Flip Flops ...what the Heck?

What's the dispersal rate of Sarin ?

Did the man in the photo then know what he could've been dealing with ? It would seem .. NOT ....

And, can you explain why you're relying on a British LEFT WING publication, for your 'news' .. ?

[Drummond]

Hundreds poisoned in US-led coalition’s strike on IS depot in Deir ez-Zor

World
April 13, 13:20 UTC+3
According to the Syrian army command, hundreds of people died from poisoning



© AP Photo/Hassan Ammar, archive

BEIRUT, April 13. /TASS/. Hundreds of people died from poisoning after an air strike by the US-led coalition on the headquarters and the depots of the Islamic State terrorist organization (outlawed in Russia) near Deir ez-Zor, the Syrian army command said in a statement circulated by SANA news agency.
The US-led coalition struck the terrorists’ positions at 5:30 p.m. local time on Wednesday. The air strike killed a large number of terrorists, including mercenaries, the statement said.
Read also


Russia submits its proposal to OPCW on extra inspectors in Syria’s Idlib
Russia won't support UN Security Council resolution condemning Syrian government — Lavrov
Syria ready to provide OPCW investigators access to Shayrat airbase — UN envoy
Russia vetoes UN Security Council resolution on alleged chemical attack in Syria
Russian diplomat believes UK fears Moscow-Washington cooperation on Syria
Russian diplomat slams Washington’s use of force in Syria as challenge to global security




"However, a yellow smoke rose over the depot after the bombing. This is evidence that the depot stored chemical agents," according to the document.
"As a result, hundreds of people, including civilians, died as a result of poisoning," the statement reads.
The Syrian army command did not give the exact number of people who had died or suffered in the coalition’s bombing.
"This incident confirms once again that terrorist organizations possess stocks of chemical weapons and have a possibility to get, store and use them thanks to the assistance of well-known regional states," the document says.
The Syrian army command came up with a statement on April 4, blaming terrorist gangs for the use of poisonous gases in the town of Khan Sheikhoun in the Idlib province. The statement stressed that "the Syrian army does not possess chemical munitions and all the accusations against it on this score were fabricated."
On order of US President Donald Trump, the US military fired Tomahawk missiles overnight to April 7 on an airfield in the Syrian province of Homs, from which, as Washington believed, aircraft had taken off to deliver a strike on Khan Sheikhoun.
Later, Russia blocked a draft resolution at the UN Security Council, which said that Damascus must hand over all data on April 4 flights to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) and provide access to the airbases that could be used to carry out a strike against Khan Sheikhoun.
Syria’s Permanent Representative at the UN Bashar Jaafari said at the UN Security Council session that Damascus was ready to provide access for OPCW experts to the Shayrat airbase to check if it stored sarin, which, as Western countries claim, was used in the recent attack.




More:
http://tass.com/world/941173

Even IF this is a true report, Balu, what's actually known about it ?

Was the attack based upon knowledge of chemical storage in the target area, or was it just carried out with another objective in mind ??

IF, repeat, IF, chemicals WERE stored there ... WHAT chemicals ? Do we know what they were ? Were they also Sarin, or if not, were they chemicals more consistent with a realistic prospect of their being terrorist-manufactured ?

And, please explain ... do you disapprove of the attack, yourself, Balu ? Have you suddenly reappraised your enthusiasm for fighting these terrorists ?? You SHOULD be pleased, I'd have thought ...

[revelarts]

GW and Trump both ran with a domestic focus, no denying that. Bush did not however change his perspective until the US was attacked. I'm certainly not saying that Trump is wrong, simply not following what he said he'd do. When the US was hit 8 months later, there wasn't any choice to what would become a war footing administration.

I say they both lied.
And there's always a choice.
Always
and Iraq Certainly wasn't a "terrorist" threat or a foreign military threat to the U.S.. period.
nieher is Syria.
Both Assad and Saddam were/are fighting the brand of terrorist that we're told attacked on 911. Wahabi Saudi terrorist on the planes on 911 then and Wahabi Saudi "Syrian" rebels in Syria now.

In all honesty, perhaps GW had been naive, but if 9/11 hadn't occurred, every indication was that he wasn't going to decide who was 'good' or 'bad' in the sense of involving the US military. The reason I say naive is that al Queda had already been on the offense and the USS Cole had gone unanswered, it was a matter of time. Like Trump, the transition was not easy, though for different reasons.

IMO Bush wasn't naive. No ones focus was on AQ at the time. But i think his and the country's response was naive. We reacted as if AQ was a sovereign state rather than a criminal mercenary cult.
Trump has NO excuse, since he's been in office HE'S ordered drone strikes that has killed nearly as many innocent children. How many pictures of those children moved his heart?

I do think that Trump had to act, if for no other reason he had to change the world's perception of the US following Obama-it could not go on. It was wrong for both our allies and those that want to do us harm. He's right to say that action should have been taken by Obama, when more than 10X the number of victims happened. I don't think it was the pictures from this one or Ivanka's tears that brought him to the decision, it was the real politics of what had occurred before and happened again. 2013 was NOT the last attack, hopefully this one will be.

I'm sorry i disagree strongly, he didn't have to do JACK.
Any wise leader would 1st make SURE exactly what happen BEFORE any knee jerk emotional reaction. He RIGHTLY chastised OBAMA that attacking Syria had NO good options. and that doing it without congress was unconstitutional. All he's showing is that his words one day mean NOTHING. the excuses that you're providing for him now may flow out his own or his spokespeople mouths but they have the SAMe weight as his previous. He could change his mind and do something else, and slap new words around that to justify it.

as far as Obama NOT reacting is concerned AGAIN the investigation found that the REBELS did the attack in 2013 so WHY was it weak for him not to attack ASSAD ..he didn't do it. PLUS he and Putin got Assad to turn over TONS of chemical weapons.
What has this missile strike accomplished? It left the airfield fully functional. Assad is still alive and the AQ ISIS terrorist rebels are now poised to have U.S. cover AGAIN , and it's put us at the brink of WW3.

NK little despot needed to know that he's not sitting in his little isolated country either, able to do whatever he likes. I don't know about his getting the message, he appears delusional to me, but China is reacting in a sane way.

are we the world police? Did Trump mean america 1st AT ALL?
Has NK sent terrorist here? have they even attacked SOUTH KOREA?
They can't even feed their own people or keep the lights on in that country.
not every problem ... if we feel compelled to deal with them all... is a nail that the U.S. military is supposed to hit.. or threaten to hit... if countries don't behave in ways we like.
It's not what most people voted for
It's not what he ran on
It's the same Hillary and Lindsey Graham insane Neo-Con/Neo-Lib military interventionist foreign policy that has back fired for the past 25 years.