How to jerk an MD off an airliner, without going to jail ...

[Abbey Marie]

So now we have a woman crying hysterically because a flight attendant on American Airlines took her stroller from her on the plane to be checked. And then a male passenger threatening to knock out the flight attendant for the "way he talked to the woman".
On. the. plane.
$$ given out, apologies given by American, flight attendant suspended. Perhaps my prediction of passengers becoming emboldened are coming true.

[Gunny]

So now we have a woman crying hysterically because a flight attendant on American Airlines took her stroller from her on the plane to be checked. And then a male passenger threatening to knock out the flight attendant for the "way he talked to the woman".
On. the. plane.
$$ given out, apologies given by American, flight attendant suspended. Perhaps my prediction of passengers becoming emboldened are coming true.

Okay ... first obviously dumbass question ... what exactly are you going to do with a stroller on a plane? They wouldn't even fit on the old school planes that actually had room for people much less the buses with wings flying Matchbox cars they have now.

I DO agree with your assessment.

[Abbey Marie]

Okay ... first obviously dumbass question ... what exactly are you going to do with a stroller on a plane? They wouldn't even fit on the old school planes that actually had room for people much less the buses with wings flying Matchbox cars they have now.

I DO agree with your assessment.

I don't know what the mom was thinking. It's tough enough fitting a carry- on bag in the overhead; not sure where a stroller would go. But once again, people can't just accept a rule and follow it. Have to make it into a big thing. (Side note/ pet peeve: some people sitting in the back like to use the front overhead bins. I guess it's too much trouble to lug their bag to the back. Grrr).

It must be stressful working as a flight attendant since 9-11. And now they have to walk on eggshells on top of it.

I primarily blame the lawyers and a system that lets them partake of punitive damages. It bred incredible greed- so many people looking for that big payoff.

And how on earth does a guy get away with threatening to deck a flight attendant on a plane?

[Gunny]

I don't know what the mom was thinking. It's tough enough fitting a carry- on bag in the overhead anymor; not sure where a stroller would go. But once again, people can't just accept a rule and follow it. Have to make it into a big thing. (Side note/ pet peeve: some people sitting in the back like to use the front overhead bins. I guess it's too much trouble to lug their bag to the back. Grrr).

It must be stressful working as a flight attendant since 9-11. And now they have to walk on eggshells on top of it.

I primarily blame the lawyers and a system that lets them partake of punitive damages. It bred incredible greed- so many people looking for that big payoff.

And how on earth does a guy get away with threatening to deck a flight attendant on a plane?

I want to know why you WOULD want to deck a flight attendant on a plane? That's the guy with the drink cart.

They need to put a halt to all these class action lawsuits. I thought Bush did. But Geez ... I can sue you for me not reading my medication instructions. "I wasn't properly informed". Oh, so that 3 pages that comes with the medication doesn't tell you anything? You need Kathianne with a chalkboard in a classroom to draw you a picture in big block letters.

And Tx is one of the worst states I've lived in about that class action crap. They'll sue you for breathing.

[Kathianne]

In this incident it seems nearly as much is unknown as known. From what I read over the course of two days regarding it, I gathered she had baby twins and another young child. It was an international flight. She had a telescoping stroller and was told it would fit and was acceptable before boarding the plane. She'd been able to load it into the overhead as told, it counted as 'carry on.' Then an employee joined the flight and it was his/her bag that was one too many. The flight attendant removed the stroller, in favor of the extra bag. The mother protested, 3 young children-1 adult. Pulling match between mother and attendant-again this was all BEFORE take off-mother was struck in head with stroller, then began to cry, one of babies nearly hit.

That is when the male passenger got involved.

Here's the rub for me. I cannot find anything that states all of the above in one place. What I 'gathered' was from multiple 'reports' and I do think that coming on the heels of the United story, it's weird. The video is after all the 'pulling and such' over the stroller was done-we get the guy who got involved with crying mom on video.

Part of the reason there may not be a 'summation' report may be due to the facts that AA intervened very quickly, again in light of United.

What has been reported is what AA did to try to keep this from escalating after the incident happened. The man that 'intervened' has expressed regret at his over reaction and behavior. What AA did wrong, for safety's sake, in my opinion, was to keep all these actors on the plane during the flight. The AA employees were not grounded until the plane reached its destination. That was a possible powder keg situation, again imo.

[Kathianne]

Now just came across this article, which tells a much different story. It's near impossible to tell which ones really are explaining things as they occurred, and which have their own narrative they are presenting.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/jennif...ampaign=buffer

[Gunny]

In this incident it seems nearly as much is unknown as known. From what I read over the course of two days regarding it, I gathered she had baby twins and another young child. It was an international flight. She had a telescoping stroller and was told it would fit and was acceptable before boarding the plane. She'd been able to load it into the overhead as told, it counted as 'carry on.' Then an employee joined the flight and it was his/her bag that was one too many. The flight attendant removed the stroller, in favor of the extra bag. The mother protested, 3 young children-1 adult. Pulling match between mother and attendant-again this was all BEFORE take off-mother was struck in head with stroller, then began to cry, one of babies nearly hit.

That is when the male passenger got involved.

Here's the rub for me. I cannot find anything that states all of the above in one place. What I 'gathered' was from multiple 'reports' and I do think that coming on the heels of the United story, it's weird. The video is after all the 'pulling and such' over the stroller was done-we get the guy who got involved with crying mom on video.

Part of the reason there may not be a 'summation' report may be due to the facts that AA intervened very quickly, again in light of United.

What has been reported is what AA did to try to keep this from escalating after the incident happened. The man that 'intervened' has expressed regret at his over reaction and behavior. What AA did wrong, for safety's sake, in my opinion, was to keep all these actors on the plane during the flight. The AA employees were not grounded until the plane reached its destination. That was a possible powder keg situation, again imo.

Don't get me wrong. I pretty much refuse to fly. All I'm saying is when you put yourself at the mercy of these people, you're at their mercy. Trying to argue with them at the moment is a waste of time and just escalates the situation. I understand dragging a couple of kids on a plane very well. I understand being 4 with a 2 years old brother going on an international flight and my mom was stuck. From Turkey to NYC.

Like you said ... circumstances. You couldn't pay me to take 3 kids on an airplane and NO ONE wants that baby there.

[Abbey Marie]

Now just came across this article, which tells a much different story. It's near impossible to tell which ones really are explaining things as they occurred, and which have their own narrative they are presenting.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/jennif...ampaign=buffer

I'm not surprised to see it titled woman "not following the rules". Bad stuff so easily follows that.
More concerning to me by far though, are the actions of the interfering male passenger who threatened to deck the attendant. This is what I predicted- a feeling of empowerment by passengers to disobey flight crew and attendants. His subsequent sheepishness doesn't count for much to me. Attendant suspended, guy's actions in the news, damage done. More to follow, no doubt.

[Gunny]

I'm not surprised to see it titled woman "not following the rules". Bad stuff so easily follows that.
More concerning to me by far are the actions of the interfering male passenger who threatened to deck the attendant. This is what I predicted- a feeling of empowerment by passengers to disobey flight crew and attendants. His subsequent sheepishness doesn't count for much to me. Attendant suspended, guy's actions in the news, damage done. More to follow, no doubt.

I got this simple rule Ms Abs ... You start interfering with the crew at 30 K ft, the Gunny light is ON. You can cry when the bird comes to a halt on the deck.

There's no call for all of this crap.

[Kathianne]

I'm not surprised to see it titled woman "not following the rules". Bad stuff so easily follows that.
More concerning to me by far are the actions of the interfering male passenger who threatened to deck the attendant. This is what I predicted- a feeling of empowerment by passengers to disobey flight crew and attendants. His subsequent sheepishness doesn't count for much to me. Attendant suspended, guy's actions in the news, damage done. More to follow, no doubt.

I hear you, it does fit with your position. I can't help myself though, I read from many sources and the stories are conflicting. I purposefully added this one because it makes your points. I don't think there is a clear story being told on this incident, nor do I think there will be.

[Gunny]

I hear you, it does fit with your position. I can't help myself though, I read from many sources and the stories are conflicting. I purposefully added this one because it makes your points. I don't think there is a clear story being told on this incident, nor do I think there will be.

I honestly think there are 2 wrongs here. It goes back to my original argument. I don't agree with the airlines. I also do not agree with the behavior of the passenger. She's doing exactly what Abs alluded to .. looking for a payday over something trivial. Let's be real ... you can't use a stroller on a plane. Common sense. Math. Even an umbrella stroller won't fit in the overhead bins. They won't fit down the aisles.

Not to mention being so rude as to inconvenience every other passenger by dragging your 3-ring circus on the plane.

[Abbey Marie]

I hear you, it does fit with your position. I can't help myself though, I read from many sources and the stories are conflicting. I purposefully added this one because it makes your points. I don't think there is a clear story being told on this incident, nor do I think there will be.

I thought you did, and that was thoughtful and fair-minded of you, Ms. Kath.

[Kathianne]

I'm sure by now everyone has seen the latest example of airline respect for their customers via Delta. While I do have a problem with the airline's behavior, whether it be by their own employees or the security personnel they call in, there are fair concerns regarding the safety of all passengers. In these instances though, the problems are occurring while the planes are on the ground. In each instance it's been due to overbooking or demanding that paying customers accommodate the airline's employees for one reason or another.

The following takes a gander at the difference between what personnel are saying/demanding/threatening in comparison to actual FAA requirements:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/05/0...booked-flight/

Delta’s turn: We’re sorry for threatening our customer with jail on overbooked flight

POSTED AT 10:41 AM ON MAY 5, 2017 BY ED MORRISSEY


...

On the video, Brian Schear can be heard talking with a person off-camera — it is not clear whether that person is a Delta employee, a security officer, or somebody else.
After Schear says that he won’t leave — the airline will have to remove him — the person off-camera replies, “You and your wife will be in jail … it’s a federal offense if you don’t abide” by an airline crew’s order.

“I bought that seat,” Schear protests.

Schear then suggests that his wife could hold one of the toddlers during takeoff and then put the youngster in the car seat. Another person, who appears to be a Delta supervisor, tells him that federal rules require that children under 2 must stay in a parent’s lap throughout the flight.

Er … about that …

That is false. The Federal Aviation Administration “strongly urges” that infants be in a car seat, although it permits those under 2 to be held in a parent’s lap. On its website, Delta recommends that parents buy a seat for children under 2 and put them in an approved child-safety seat.

Oopsie! However, there may have been another reason for Delta’s initial demand to have the toddler sit in the father’s lap. The Schears originally bought the seat for their 18-year-old son, but they bought him a separate ticket on an earlier flight in order to be able to use the seat for the toddler in his car seat — as Delta and the FAA recommend. It’s unclear whether the Schears updated the passenger information:

“I bought the seat,” Brian Schear is seen telling the agents in a video of the incident, explaining that he initially purchased the seat for his 18-year-old son but sent the teen home early on another flight so that the toddler would have a seat on the plane. “It’s a red-eye. He won’t sleep unless he’s in his car seat. So, otherwise, he’d be sitting in my wife’s lap, crawling all over the place, and it’s not safe.” …

The issue, it seems, is transferring airline tickets from one passenger to another. Delta Air Lines maintains on its website that “all tickets are nontransferable per the fare rules. Name changes are not permitted.”

Note, however, that is a Delta rule, not an FAA regulation. The FAA allows transfers as long as the names get changed early enough for a TSA check on the new passenger. Regardless, that alone could have been grounds to refuse service, but that’s clearly not the objection raised in this instance. If that was the problem, they would have asked them all to deplane right from the start, and shouldn’t have allowed them on the flight in the first place. Delta wanted the seat for another passenger, despite the fact that the Schears had paid for it, and then kicked them all off the flight for refusing to give it up — even after Brian Schear finally conceded the point and agreed to fly with his son in his lap.

...

After this string of viral videos, two things will happen. First, customers will become a lot more emboldened to stand up to airline employees, especially in overbooking situations, and second, airlines will have to try to eliminate those opportunities as fast as possible. This is a good demonstration of the marketplace at work. We may not need Congressional action on overbooking — airlines now have a strong interest in ending the practice. Markets being what they are, though, expect prices to rise to cover those sunk costs in empty seats, and expect cancellation fees and policies to get a lot tougher, which would have happened whether Congress drove these changes or not.