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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Didn't you just claim it's been the same, like forever? And now you want to lay the blame on one person.
    I blame him for continuing a failed narrow approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    And HOW do you know what his specific plans are?
    He should let them be known or all we can do is judge what he tells.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Did Obama declare them a "terrorist" organization? That would of course allow them to do more. But I did not realize that they had that designation already, my bad.

    "ways of convicting and deporting". In that meeting where they discussed this, what did they say would be the means they would achieve these goals, Pete?
    I don't really know what this means. The root of gang violence is economics. Remove the current gang members and you create a vacuum that will be refilled. Community transformation is the only answer. Part of that is removal, but only part. Maybe a 1/3 but unfortunately removal is 100% of the plan.

  2. #17
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    What's your solution, Pete?
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    What's your solution, Pete?
    Specifics are above my pay grade, but as I said, more holistic approaches to restore communities.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    Specifics are above my pay grade, but as I said, more holistic approaches to restore communities.
    Such as?
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    Such as?
    Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.
    Maybe those in poor areas should stop getting 15 girls pregnant before running off.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.
    All throughout history and with every system of governance that's been tried, there have been criminal gangs and dregs of society preying on upstanding citizens who follow the rules.

    That means it's not a socioeconomic problem; it's simply human nature for some of our species to be murderous thugs.

    Every single gang member made a choice, and I don't want to hear that old tired bullshit that someone didn't have a choice. Unless you got press-ganged onto a Pirate Ship, you had a choice and I can post many examples of those that chose not to be a thug and rose to greatness in this country in every area where gangs are prevalent.

    I have a guaranteed 99.9% effectiveness solution, and it's the only way this will be solved - but you won't like it. Gang membership would plummet to zero overnight and every retard running around with face tatoos would flock to the laser removal centers.

    Want to hear it?

    I generally try to bring something to the table instead of complaining and pointing fingers at those that are actually trying to combat a problem.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    That means it's not a socioeconomic problem; it's simply human nature for some of our species to be murderous thugs.
    Just not true. It's easy to see gangs are located generally in poor inner cities. Where are the crips and bloods? Watts, compton, Westmont. Where are they not, Beverly Hills, Laguna Beach, Malibu.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    Every single gang member made a choice, and I don't want to hear that old tired bullshit that someone didn't have a choice.
    Not true again, many gangs especially MS-13 coerce kids into joining or they essentially die or a family member dies. So when you're 8 and surrounded by gang bangers who know where you live. Whatcha gonna choose? Then you get indoctrinated.
    Last edited by pete311; 04-21-2017 at 04:42 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    Just not true. It's easy to see gangs are located generally in poor inner cities. Where are the crips and bloods? Watts, compton, Westmont. Where are they not, Beverly Hills, Laguna Beach, Malibu.
    Nice cherrypicking to ignore my point.

    Explain why the gang problem has been consistent throughout history with every type of government. This isn't a problem unique to Watts, Compton and Westmont.

    Not true again, many gangs especially MS-13 coerce kids into joining or they essentially die or a family member dies. So when you're 8 and surrounded by gang bangers who know where you live. Whatcha gonna choose? Then you get indoctrinated.
    Not here in America. And I'm not interested in other country's problems.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    Nice cherrypicking to ignore my point.

    Explain why the gang problem has been consistent throughout history with every type of government. This isn't a problem unique to Watts, Compton and Westmont.
    What was your point? I'm not arguing it has anything to do with a specific government.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    Not here in America.
    Yes it happens here.
    http://www.indianapolisrecorder.com/...e6caa7410.html

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    What was your point? I'm not arguing it has anything to do with a specific government.
    It doesn't matter if there were no opportunity in the most despicable, horrid, oppressive, uneducated country - or all opportunity and free education in the richest nation, participating in the world's greatest economy ever witnessed - there are still gangs.

    Thus, your statement is false :

    Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.


    Saying these gang members are the dregs of society because they never had a chance is bullshit - they DID have the opportunity to participate and chose the thug life anyway.

    So, in countries where they didn't have these things, there are gangs. In countries at the other end of the spectrum, like ours, where they DO have them there are gangs.

    It has been thus throughout history in every country.

    Thugs are gonna thug.

    No, it doesn't. "Princess" claims it's so with zero references. It's excuse-making for thugs and something a defense attorney would try to play for sentence mitigation.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    It doesn't matter if there were no opportunity in the most despicable, horrid, oppressive, uneducated country - or all opportunity and free education in the richest nation, participating in the world's greatest economy ever witnessed - there are still gangs.
    It doesn't have to do with the state of any country. There is poverty and affluence is every country. I don't understand your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    Saying these gang members are the dregs of society because they never had a chance is bullshit - they DID have the opportunity to participate and chose the thug life anyway.
    What does someone living in Alaska know about inner city Baltimore or Chicago?

    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    So, in countries where they didn't have these things, there are gangs. In countries at the other end of the spectrum, like ours, where they DO have them there are gangs.

    It has been thus throughout history in every country.

    Thugs are gonna thug.
    Huh? You saying there is a thug gene?


    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    No, it doesn't.
    Yes it does, prove it doesn't.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    It doesn't have to do with the state of any country. There is poverty and affluence is every country. I don't understand your point.
    Yes. The difference is that everyone has the same opportunity to move themselves upward here in America. Thugs choose not to.

    Thugs are responsible for their life choices just as any other American is.

    What does someone living in Alaska know about inner city Baltimore or Chicago?
    Evidently a great deal more than someone living in Milwaukee, claims to be a small business owner and yet thinks socialism is grand, and votes liberal.

    Huh? You saying there is a thug gene?
    If you're not interested in discussing this intelligently and without snark, just say so.

    Yes it does, prove it doesn't.
    You made the claim, the onus is upon you to prove your assertion that MS-13 gang members are pressed into service right here in America.

    Good luck with that.
    Last edited by NightTrain; 04-21-2017 at 08:44 PM.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    Yes. The difference is that everyone has the same opportunity to move themselves upward here in America. Thugs choose not to.

    Thugs are responsible for their life choices just as any other American is.



    Evidently a great deal more than someone living in Milwaukee, claims to be a small business owner and yet thinks socialism is grand, and votes liberal.



    If you're not interested in discussing this intelligently and without snark, just say so.



    You made the claim, the onus is upon you to prove your assertion that MS-13 gang members are pressed into service right here in America.

    Good luck with that.
    I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I categorically disagree with you. Moving on.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I categorically disagree with you. Moving on.
    Thinking logically instead of emotionally is infinitely better to understanding the world around us.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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