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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    ....
    .....

    Frederick Douglass Memorial to Lincoln is probably one of the most honest and reverent.


    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/l...raham-lincoln/
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-08-2017 at 09:17 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  2. #17
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    Nice. To the man who state he would have allowed slavery to exist where it was to circumvent then stop the war.

    You need to get with yourself on this, rev. You consider the man that violated the Constitution more than anyone up to his time, and many since to be some moral beacon; yet, call yourself a Constitutionalist. Shit or get off the pot.
    GET OFF MY LAWN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Nice. To the man who state he would have allowed slavery to exist where it was to circumvent then stop the war.

    You need to get with yourself on this, rev. You consider the man that violated the Constitution more than anyone up to his time, and many since to be some moral beacon; yet, call yourself a Constitutionalist. Shit or get off the pot.
    Did you even listen to or read the speech?
    Did you even read what I said?
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Did you even listen to or read the speech?
    Did you even read what I said?
    Do I ever read your novellas? You're off topic. No one was discussing the right or wrong of slavery. It's a separate issue and hardly a topic exclusive to the US, Lincoln, Douglas nor anyone else. Slavery exists and always has regardless what you and Frederick Douglas think.

    The issue is the reaction by poor whites, specifically in border states. The sentiment you hold was not a popular one. It an excuse to take by force of arms what the US couldn't get by bullying.

    You apparently haven't read what I posted. Poor whites in tenements working in slave shops were no less slaves because someone labelled them otherwise. Try to stay on the topic for once.
    GET OFF MY LAWN

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Do I ever read your novellas? You're off topic. No one was discussing the right or wrong of slavery. It's a separate issue and hardly a topic exclusive to the US, Lincoln, Douglas nor anyone else. Slavery exists and always has regardless what you and Frederick Douglas think.

    The issue is the reaction by poor whites, specifically in border states. The sentiment you hold was not a popular one. It an excuse to take by force of arms what the US couldn't get by bullying.

    You apparently haven't read what I posted. Poor whites in tenements working in slave shops were no less slaves because someone labelled them otherwise. Try to stay on the topic for once.
    SO you didn't read my post and it looks like you didn't even read the 1st post of the thread which is about Lincoln, Kentucky, Slavery, Mentions the reasons for the Civil War, AND has NOTHING to do with "the reaction of POOR WHITES".

    Maybe that's where YOU wanted to take it but don't pretend that's what the Thread's 'ABOUT" and claim others are off topic.

    find your reading glasses G.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1st post
    Lincoln "Unfreed " Slaves In Kentucky?

    I've Googled myself to death trying to find just ONE corroborating ANYTHING on this and have found bumpkus. When I read it I said "no way, Jose"....thennnnnnnn I started thinking about the "nature" of a politiciian, AND Lincoln was MOST DEFINITELY a skilled and brilliant tactician.....
    Thoughts?
    Source: http://www.ushistory.org/us/34a.asp
    Americans tend to think of the Civil War as being fought to end slavery. Even one full year into the Civil War, the elimination of slavery was not a key objective of the North. Despite a vocal Abolitionist movement in the North, many people and many soldiers, in particular, opposed slavery, but did not favor emancipation....
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-09-2017 at 10:58 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  6. #21
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    Concerning a poor white being JUST as Bad as being a slave.
    well that's BS.
    1st of all let's establish what i'm not saying. Being a poor white was NOT a PICNIC. it was CRAP.
    But being a slave was Crap on fire with gasoline.

    1st of all. slaves had ZERO rights to their own bodies Gunny. ZERO.
    the masters could and DID sell, beat, starve, rape, arrange rape, torture, maim, and kill a slave at ANY time with ZERO consequence.

    Poor whites had all the rights of being a FREE WHITE man, It may not have worked out as well in practice as for middle-class or wealthy whites but it was A H3LL of a lot better than being a slave.

    It's weird to me that some people want to minimize the CRAP storm that American slavery was.

    But if everytime someone mentions U.S. Slavery you want to mention Poor whites during the same era.
    How about mentioning poor free/escaped Blacks too Gunny. Were they as bad off as poor whites?
    AT LEAST.

    being a POOR FREE black man in America pre-1865 had to be CRAP.
    but even as bad as it was to be a poor free black man do you know what those FREE poor black men DIDN'T want. They didn't want to be SLAVES.

    At least let that sink in before you start saying that being a poor white was JUST as bad.
    Last edited by revelarts; 07-09-2017 at 11:00 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    SO you didn't read my post and it looks like you didn't even read the 1st post of the thread which is about Lincoln, Kentucky, Slavery, Mentions the reasons for the Civil War, AND has NOTHING to do with "the reaction of POOR WHITES".

    Maybe that's where YOU wanted to take it but don't pretend that's what the Thread's 'ABOUT" and claim others are off topic.

    find your reading glasses G.
    "Despite a vocal Abolitionist movement in the North, many people and many soldiers, in particular, opposed slavery, but did not favor emancipation...."

    Gunny, this indicates that many people did oppose slavery, but they did view the Negro as a 2nd class citizen by opposing emancipation. A distinction with just a tad bit of difference.

    As for using slavery as an excuse, that's false. Time and time again, Lincoln attempted to tell the South that he would not seek to end it there, only to halt its spread westward. That is hardly bullying and I fail to see where bullying tactics were ever employed. If anything, slavery was the banner that the rebels carried and the bullying, via threats and action, was on them.

    Btw....poor whites in urban cities or farms being in the same boat as the the slaves is a reach as an argument IMHO.

    Lets just compare a few things:

    Right to own property? Poor White Man (PWM) = Yes - Slave = No

    Right to bear arms? PWM = Yes - Slave = No

    Right of free movement ? PWM = Yes - Slave = No

    Right to lawfully marry? PWM = Yes - Slave = No

    In fact, one could go down the Bill of Rights and while they applied to ALL whites, none applied to a slave.

    Nothing personal here, but Rev does have a point there, the two situations are not close to being the same.
    “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

    Winston Churchill

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