This Would TRULY Spark a Second Civil War

[Kathianne]

My 1st question to those talking about shooting if they don't get their way, is WHO are they planning on shooting?
left-wing and RINO Congress people?
Good luck with that.

If not them WHO? random local leftys... or assumed leftist?

whats the plan.
seems ex-military people should have some clear targets that would gain "victory" ...with the least amount of damage.
Unless it more about making folks pay for... saying bad things about them?

That is what I was trying to figure out last evening. HPD finally posted something that I could go along with. 'Only in self-defense.'

[michiganFats]

My 1st question to those talking about shooting if they don't get their way, is WHO are they planning on shooting?
left-wing and RINO Congress people?
Good luck with that.

If not them WHO? random local leftys... or assumed leftist?

whats the plan.
seems ex-military people should have some clear targets that would gain "victory" ...with the least amount of damage.
Unless it more about making folks pay for... saying bad things about them?

I saw you doing this to Jim in a couple of other threads. I made one of those posts you're talking about. If you're confused about something or have questions then feel free to ask whoever made the post you have questions about but if all you want to do is once again substitute your reality for the words of others then have fun with that.

[michiganFats]

My 1st question to those talking about shooting if they don't get their way, is WHO are they planning on shooting?
left-wing and RINO Congress people?
Good luck with that.

If not them WHO? random local leftys... or assumed leftist?

whats the plan.
seems ex-military people should have some clear targets that would gain "victory" ...with the least amount of damage.
Unless it more about making folks pay for... saying bad things about them?

After further consideration I've decided to respond to this. I did before and I think you were being a smart ass but other people may have read this thread and been confused by what was said so I'll answer your questions, not for you because I think you were being a smart ass, for those who didn't understand what was said.

Your first question: who will get shot?

No one. I'm speaking only for my self here but picking up a rifle, as I put it, is a euphemism for serving my country once again except this time it won't be in the military, it will be with an irregular militia.

Who will be shot (redux)? I don't know. The point isn't to just pick up a weapon and shoot someone. That is the worst thing to do.

You asked about the plan. The plan is to organize and exercise our Second Amendment right. That's right, the Second Amendment isn't really about openly packing a pistol it's really about organization. First the leadership needs to be determined, then the Center of Gravity needs to be identified, then you need a plan. Gunfire may not be necessary at all.

[revelarts]

I saw you doing this to Jim in a couple of other threads. I made one of those posts you're talking about. If you're confused about something or have questions then feel free to ask whoever made the post you have questions about but if all you want to do is once again substitute your reality for the words of others then have fun with that.

After further consideration I've decided to respond to this. I did before and I think you were being a smart ass but other people may have read this thread and been confused by what was said so I'll answer your questions, not for you because I think you were being a smart ass, for those who didn't understand what was said.
Your first question: who will get shot?
No one. I'm speaking only for my self here but picking up a rifle, as I put it, is a euphemism for serving my country once again except this time it won't be in the military, it will be with an irregular militia.
Who will be shot (redux)? I don't know. The point isn't to just pick up a weapon and shoot someone. That is the worst thing to do.
You asked about the plan. The plan is to organize and exercise our Second Amendment right. That's right, the Second Amendment isn't really about openly packing a pistol it's really about organization. First the leadership needs to be determined, then the Center of Gravity needs to be identified, then you need a plan. Gunfire may not be necessary at all.

Trump's support in Washington won't matter at that point. If he's Impeached, and removed, I'll pick up a rifle again. I don't get mad often but that would make me very angry.

You would NOT be alone. The government thinks what happened in Nevada over grazing rights was bad, wait until they try and impeach our president.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson

You're wrong. No one is itching to grab a gun. But if the Boy Who Cried Wolf...the boy I didn't vote for, succeeds in removing from office the man I did vote for based on total bullshit then yes, I'll grab a gun. And at that point will you say that's unjustified? I'm pretty sure you will. And you'll be wrong. Do you think anything is worth fighting for?

A debate. Right . Like people have on message boards? You were shown time and time again the fallacy to voting 3rd party with the Constitution at stake; yet, you chose to vote for as big a socialist as Obama as some form of "protest" against the choices the parties offered. Sure changed a lot. Not the outcome of the election, nor your mind.
You're hostile to Trump period, regardless what you say. As if his being taken down will somehow justify your misguided notions. A debate is nothing but another false flag. There's no reason for one. The left and Trump haters didn't get the outcome they wanted does not warrant debate, nor is it grounds for impeachment.
I think Trump is a dolt and letting his ego control his administration rather than just getting to work. STILL beats the other choices.
Might as well shoot each other. At least it's honest.

I'm not sure why you'd think I'm being a "smart ass", the words that you and others used are NOT framed as "euphemism".
the tone of my questions may have been a bit snarky but they are all very serious.

I get the idea of people blowing off steam on the internet, in bar, w friends at home etc.. but this is not the 1st time this kind of talk has come up by you and others. that's why i didn't direct it Specifically to you.
MFats, How many times would it take for you to hear your neighbor say "you're making me mad. I'm going to get my rifle if They do ...or don't do... XYZ my way" before you started taking it seriously? before you started to wonder what EXACTLY will set this person off. and who exactly they want to shoot at.
There's a lot of GENERAL hostility toward those on "the left" (and even towards non-Trump supporters of the right), and the gun waving doesn't seem to have any definite direction.

My other problem is that too many on the right seem ready to SHOOT people before they get up and march to Washington or the state house or even VISIT their congressmen.
pick up a phone, write a letter, go to the Republican party offices and kick out the RINOs by voting in the cacuses.

Instead of Picking up the phone, the car keys, the plane tickets, the emails, the pen, the face to face meeting, the picket sign, the neighbors vote, etc
people want to talk about picking up "the rifle".

Personally, I'm not for impeachment of Trump, he's done nothing THAT illegal at this point, JUST stupid IMO.
But here's the thing impeachment is a HIGHLY political but legal process. If congress could pull it off It's NOT a CRIME or UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Clinton was impeached for lying and obstruction over a woman. and nearly was put out of office for it. There were plenty of shady and criminal things he did, but no one LEGALLY could/would nail him. But at least people on the left were't making random threats about "they'll be a 2nd civil war if they Impeach Clinton" "I'll Get my Rifle" "you won't be alone" "tree of Liberty ...BLOOD..." "do you think anythings worth fighting for?" "we might as well shoot each other" and SIMILAR TALK found spread around the board by various people.

Seems to me Guns should be a LAST resort, AFTER ALL other avenues have failed.
ANd not tossed around as a general threat to the wind against a Gaseous UNDEFINED enemy.

PLUS It seems to me that If shooting DID start over a LEGAL impeachment then the shots would have to be fired at gov't officials ... therefore against the U.S. military and Law enforcement agencies. I suspect plenty of military and LEOs would cross over. but only enough to make a FAT mess.
And it seems to me that EVEN IF a militia won. Would you then put TRUMP back in office? Just to finish his 4 years and then let the country have an OPEN election and allow the election of someone like Bernie Sanders or will you/militia want to ....BY the rifle... MAKE SURE there's "conservative" leadership for the foreseeable future?
After a military Coup everything up for grabs by the victors, and i see no real constitutional revolutionist among most conservatives anymore.
mostly "my way or the highway" types, JUST LIKE on the LEFT.

[michiganFats]

I'm not sure why you'd think I'm being a "smart ass", the words that you and others used are NOT framed as "euphemism".
the tone of my questions may have been a bit snarky but they are all very serious.

I get the idea of people blowing off steam on the internet, in bar, w friends at home etc.. but this is not the 1st time this kind of talk has come up by you and others. that's why i didn't direct it Specifically to you.
MFats, How many times would it take for you to hear your neighbor say "you're making me mad. I'm going to get my rifle if They do ...or don't do... XYZ my way" before you started taking it seriously? before you started to wonder what EXACTLY will set this person off. and who exactly they want to shoot at.
There's a lot of GENERAL hostility toward those on "the left" (and even towards non-Trump supporters of the right), and the gun waving doesn't seem to have any definite direction.

My other problem is that too many on the right seem ready to SHOOT people before they get up and march to Washington or the state house or even VISIT their congressmen.
pick up a phone, write a letter, go to the Republican party offices and kick out the RINOs by voting in the cacuses.

Instead of Picking up the phone, the car keys, the plane tickets, the emails, the pen, the face to face meeting, the picket sign, the neighbors vote, etc
people want to talk about picking up "the rifle".

Personally, I'm not for impeachment of Trump, he's done nothing THAT illegal at this point, JUST stupid IMO.
But here's the thing impeachment is a HIGHLY political but legal process. If congress could pull it off It's NOT a CRIME or UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Clinton was impeached for lying and obstruction over a woman. and nearly was put out of office for it. There were plenty of shady and criminal things he did, but no one LEGALLY could/would nail him. But at least people on the left were't making random threats about "they'll be a 2nd civil war if they Impeach Clinton" "I'll Get my Rifle" "you won't be alone" "tree of Liberty ...BLOOD..." "do you think anythings worth fighting for?" "we might as well shoot each other" and SIMILAR TALK found spread around the board by various people.

Seems to me Guns should be a LAST resort, AFTER ALL other avenues have failed.
ANd not tossed around as a general threat to the wind against a Gaseous UNDEFINED enemy.

PLUS It seems to me that If shooting DID start over a LEGAL impeachment then the shots would have to be fired at gov't officials ... therefore against the U.S. military and Law enforcement agencies. I suspect plenty of military and LEOs would cross over. but only enough to make a FAT mess.
And it seems to me that EVEN IF a militia won. Would you then put TRUMP back in office? Just to finish his 4 years and then let the country have an OPEN election and allow the election of someone like Bernie Sanders or will you/militia want to ....BY the rifle... MAKE SURE there's "conservative" leadership for the foreseeable future?
After a military Coup everything up for grabs by the victors, and i see no real constitutional revolutionist among most conservative anymore.
mostly "my way or the highway" types, JUST LIKE on the LEFT.

I was tempted to divide your post and respond but after reading your post a few times it's clear to me that you either didn't read my post or didn't want to deal with it because you kept talking about shooting and taking on the Army and killing politicians.

Do you want to talk about this or not? If you do...stop putting words in my mouth. I specifically said that indiscriminate killing is the worst thing that could happen but you ran with it, didn't you? Half of your post was based on ignoring what I said and when I say half that's being kind.

[pete311]

I tend to agree and I am not for impeachment unless it's overwhelmingly deserved. Nothing he's done yet meets that criteria.

[revelarts]

I was tempted to divide your post and respond but after reading your post a few times it's clear to me that you either didn't read my post or didn't want to deal with it because you kept talking about shooting and taking on the Army and killing politicians.

Do you want to talk about this or not? If you do...stop putting words in my mouth. I specifically said that indiscriminate killing is the worst thing that could happen but you ran with it, didn't you? Half of your post was based on ignoring what I said and when I say half that's being kind.

I quoted you and others INITIAL words which do not give any criteria for shooting people.
just various versions of picking up guns and shooting.

as you said you can't speak for others.

Kath mentiond that HPDrifter said he'd use his gun in self defense.
But the thread title here is "...SPARK A 2nd CIVIL WAR"
not Spark my personal "self-defense"

As i mentioned, I understand blowing off steam and being hyperbolic BUT after hearing it over and over everytime the right thinks it won't get it's way I do wonder.

And sure MFats, AFTER my questions, you reply that random shooting would be bad. that is good to hear. I agree 100%

and you follow-up with

"You asked about the plan. The plan is to organize and exercise our Second Amendment right. That's right, the Second Amendment isn't really about openly packing a pistol it's really about organization. First the leadership needs to be determined, then the Center of Gravity needs to be identified, then you need a plan. Gunfire may not be necessary at all."

THAT'S My Point.. well the last part... "GUNFIRE may not be necessary AT ALL".
we agree.
the earlier bits of that are problem, as far a i can tell the leadership available now via the conservatives and the militias are NOT serious "republic" minded constitutionalist that want ALL Americans free to live in a fair society, they ALL seem to want big Gov't to help them get their way.

no good center of gravity... even to peacefully transition, especially if folks seem to want to move from,
"I voted for president and didn't get my way so now I'll get my gun and join the militia"
Instead of the other peaceful legal tools i mentioned.

[michiganFats]

I quoted you and others INITIAL words which do not give any criteria for shooting people.
just various versions of picking up guns and shooting.

And I'll stop you right here. That was alright the first time you did it because you didn't know any better. That was responded to though so now you're not able to credibly claim that, now you're doing it because you want to believe that even though you were told differently, and that makes you a smart ass.

Let me predict what you'll do next, you'll take offense to me calling you a smart ass again, claim I don't want dialogue, and run away.

[revelarts]

And I'll stop you right here. That was alright the first time you did it because you didn't know any better. That was responded to though so now you're not able to credibly claim that, now you're doing it because you want to believe that even though you were told differently, and that makes you a smart ass.

Let me predict what you'll do next, you'll take offense to me calling you a smart ass again, claim I don't want dialogue, and run away.

You asked for a dialogue based on ALL you said,
But You decided to stop at my 1st sentence and call me smart ass.

How about YOU continue reading what i wrote and respond to that Fats?
Isn't that what you just encouraged me to do?

[michiganFats]

You asked for a dialogue based on ALL you said,
But You decided to stop at my 1st sentence and call me smart ass.

How about continue reading what i wrote Fats?
Isn't that what you just encouraged me to do?

I read what you wrote. I stopped you in my quote because you are wrong. I made a very simple post about organized force and Center of Gravity. You continued to talk about indiscriminate murder. Are you willing to continue or are you going to ignore everything that doesn't suit your worldview?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm not sure why you'd think I'm being a "smart ass", the words that you and others used are NOT framed as "euphemism".
the tone of my questions may have been a bit snarky but they are all very serious.

I get the idea of people blowing off steam on the internet, in bar, w friends at home etc.. but this is not the 1st time this kind of talk has come up by you and others. that's why i didn't direct it Specifically to you.
MFats, How many times would it take for you to hear your neighbor say "you're making me mad. I'm going to get my rifle if They do ...or don't do... XYZ my way" before you started taking it seriously? before you started to wonder what EXACTLY will set this person off. and who exactly they want to shoot at.
There's a lot of GENERAL hostility toward those on "the left" (and even towards non-Trump supporters of the right), and the gun waving doesn't seem to have any definite direction.

My other problem is that too many on the right seem ready to SHOOT people before they get up and march to Washington or the state house or even VISIT their congressmen.
pick up a phone, write a letter, go to the Republican party offices and kick out the RINOs by voting in the cacuses.

Instead of Picking up the phone, the car keys, the plane tickets, the emails, the pen, the face to face meeting, the picket sign, the neighbors vote, etc
people want to talk about picking up "the rifle".

Personally, I'm not for impeachment of Trump, he's done nothing THAT illegal at this point, JUST stupid IMO.
But here's the thing impeachment is a HIGHLY political but legal process. If congress could pull it off It's NOT a CRIME or UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Clinton was impeached for lying and obstruction over a woman. and nearly was put out of office for it. There were plenty of shady and criminal things he did, but no one LEGALLY could/would nail him. But at least people on the left were't making random threats about "they'll be a 2nd civil war if they Impeach Clinton" "I'll Get my Rifle" "you won't be alone" "tree of Liberty ...BLOOD..." "do you think anythings worth fighting for?" "we might as well shoot each other" and SIMILAR TALK found spread around the board by various people.

Seems to me Guns should be a LAST resort, AFTER ALL other avenues have failed.
ANd not tossed around as a general threat to the wind against a Gaseous UNDEFINED enemy.

PLUS It seems to me that If shooting DID start over a LEGAL impeachment then the shots would have to be fired at gov't officials ... therefore against the U.S. military and Law enforcement agencies. I suspect plenty of military and LEOs would cross over. but only enough to make a FAT mess.
And it seems to me that EVEN IF a militia won. Would you then put TRUMP back in office? Just to finish his 4 years and then let the country have an OPEN election and allow the election of someone like Bernie Sanders or will you/militia want to ....BY the rifle... MAKE SURE there's "conservative" leadership for the foreseeable future?
After a military Coup everything up for grabs by the victors, and i see no real constitutional revolutionist among most conservatives anymore.
mostly "my way or the highway" types, JUST LIKE on the LEFT.

Did "I" say "I" was going to shoot anyone?

Why did you ignore my post where I said that "I" wasn't going to take up arms and go marching off to some insurrection or civil war, that I was too old for that, and that the only reason I would ever shoot anyone is in self defense? Why did you ignore that post?

So why did I say what I did about Nevada, and post the Thomas Jefferson quote about the tree of liberty? Because I believe there are many other people that WILL take up arms and ARE ready to "shoot other people" in defense of what they perceive as their nation under attack by radicals from within. They may not even START the shooting, but they will RETURN FIRE, and once something like that happens, I think it'll quickly spill over to the vast majority of the nation, and if any trucking to big cities gets disrupted and they run out of food, those city slickers will be killing each other inside of 3 days over a pack of stale hotdogs. So of course they'll try and make a run for it out to the country attempting to find food, and that's where they'll run into a wall of flying lead. That's where they run into me and all the rest of us HICKS out here that the city LEFTISTS hold in such DISDAIN. All us STUPID people that voted for president Trump out here in fly over country, the DEPLORABLES and what not. Yeah we've been insulted and called about every name the left can spew, so if they think if the shit hits the fan and they get hungry that they'll be welcomed with open arms out here in the country, they're sadly mistaken. We're all clean out of give a fuck. Either turn around and head your leftist ass back to the cess pool you came from and fight over that stale pack of hotdogs, or get your ass shot off.

[revelarts]

I read what you wrote. I stopped you in my quote because you are wrong. I made a very simple post about organized force and Center of Gravity. You continued to talk about indiscriminate murder. Are you willing to continue or are you going to ignore everything that doesn't suit your worldview?

sheesh , nope not "wrong"
look Fats your Initial reply to me said that I was being a smartass for EVEN ASKING who you and others wanted to shoot.
then you implied that you'd lower yourself to respond. and you did so.

My reply was emphasizing why ANYONE would get the impression that you and others would be killing people in the 1st place... not just your comment... but others here and on the right seem to be saying that shooting UNNAMED enemies is THE NEXT STEP.... "CIVIL WAR"... as the THREAD TITLE suggest.
I went on to point out that i think there are many other intermediate steps before that should even be considered or mentioned.
I pointed out as well why i think shooting over impeachment... the thread topic... would be counter-productive.

So i was addressing you AND the larger topic.
But somehow you took offense.

So I replied Specifically to YOU 1st trying to explain BREIFLY why i responded the way i did.
THEN I went on to address your specific points.
And EVEN AGREED with you in places.

you reply by calling me smart ass again and ignored the 2nd half of my comments.

LOOK, IF you can't do anything but be offended even when i DON"T call you names, and i DO reply directly to your comments then
how are we supposed to have a dialogue man?

You've called me name several times now and I have NOT responded in kind.
I've spoken directly to your words and you want to camp out on parts that only Define my Initial View of your words and the clear Implication of the thread title "CIVIL WAR".

So look do you really want to talk?
Just reread what i said WITHOUT thinking I'm calling you an "indiscriminate murderer", because i'm NOT.
But the context of this thread is "CIVIL WAR" so i when speak it THAT and it's NOT your POV, then please note I'm NOT addressing YOU.

[michiganFats]

Did "I" say "I" was going to shoot anyone?

Why did you ignore my post where I said that "I" wasn't going to take up arms and go marching off to some insurrection or civil war, that I was too old for that, and that the only reason I would ever shoot anyone is in self defense? Why did you ignore that post?

So why did I say what I did about Nevada, and post the Thomas Jefferson quote about the tree of liberty? Because I believe there are many other people that WILL take up arms and ARE ready to "shoot other people" in defense of what they perceive as their nation under attack by radicals from within. They may not even START the shooting, but they will RETURN FIRE, and once something like that happens, I think it'll quickly spill over to the vast majority of the nation, and if any trucking to big cities gets disrupted, because then they'd run out of food, and those city slickers will be killing each inside of 3 days over a pack of stale hotdogs. So of course they'll try and make a run for it out to the country attempting to find food, and that's where they'll run into a wall of flying lead. That's where they run into me and all the rest of us HICKS out here that the city LEFTISTS hold in such DISDAIN. All us STUPID people that voted for president Trump out here in fly over country, the DEPLORABLES and what not. Yeah we've been insulted and called about every name the left can spew, so if they think if the shit hits the fan and they get hungry that going to welcomed with open arms out here in the country, they're sadly mistaken. We're all clean out of give a fuck.

He doesn't care what you meant. I'm new here and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I will not make that mistake again.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

He doesn't care what you meant. I'm new here and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I will not make that mistake again.

I know what he's doing. He's looking for a way to do what all leftists do when it comes to this subject. They say "well if you want another civil war, get to it, go out and start shooting people," and when you respond with a more precise answer that doesn't include you simply going out, ALONE, and starting to shoot people, they call you a PUSSY, or a COWARD, or a BLOW HARD, it's their chance to INSULT you in other words. They don't see and will not admit to understanding the big picture, no matter how long you attempt to explain it to them. It doesn't fit their narrative, and to a leftist, it's all about the narrative.

[revelarts]

Did "I" say "I" was going to shoot anyone?

Why did you ignore my post where I said that "I" wasn't going to take up arms and go marching off to some insurrection or civil war, that I was too old for that, and that the only reason I would ever shoot anyone is in self defense? Why did you ignore that post?

Drifter I didn't ignore it.
but it's NOT in this thread. If you said it Elsewhere I never saw it.
I'm sorry to tell you i haven't read all of your post in every thread.
But in this thread there's no way to get that impression.

Kath mention to me elsewhere that you said "self-defense" and i mentioned that In my earlier post here
why do you ignore that?

but again the title of the thread is "CIVIL WAR" not "self-defense"
"Civil war" over Trump's impeachment
why should ANYONE assume anything LESS that some form of armed assault upon the offending gov't?
can you honestly answer that?

if your just BLOWING SMOKE fine say that.
but don't talk about Civil War and then get pissed if people think you might REALLY shoot people.

So why did I say what I did about Nevada, and post the Thomas Jefferson quote about the tree of liberty? Because I believe there are many other people that WILL take up arms and ARE ready to "shoot other people" in defense of what they perceive as their nation under attack by radicals from within. They may not even START the shooting, but they will RETURN FIRE,...

how would anyone get that impression from what been said here Drifter.and why would the left or thegov't start shooting if they've already gotten rid of TRUMP.
they've won and taken power no need to shoot Right wingers.

and once something like that happens, I think it'll quickly spill over to the vast majority of the nation, and if any trucking to big cities gets disrupted, then they'd run out of food, and those city slickers will be killing each inside of 3 days over a pack of stale hotdogs. So of course they'll try and make a run for it out to the country attempting to find food, and that's where they'll run into a wall of flying lead. That's where they run into me and all the rest of us HICKS out here that the city LEFTISTS hold in such DISDAIN. All us STUPID people that voted for president Trump out here in fly over country, the DEPLORABLES and what not. Yeah we've been insulted and called about every name the left can spew, so if they think if the shit hits the fan and they get hungry that they'll be welcomed with open arms out here in the country, they're sadly mistaken. We're all clean out of give a fuck. Either turn around and head your leftist ass back to the cess pool you came from and fight over that stale pack of hotdogs, or get your ass shot off.

that's not "Civil war" over impeachment, or "tyranny" it's other hurt feelings and unnamed axes to grind.
And frankly the harm your talking about causing/allowing to happen to those of "the cities" isn't even going to affect the people that are in the seats of gov't or corporate power that have initiated the real problems, or calling you names. Just other middle class and poor people.